FYI, Ray Hartmann's full column is available here: http://www.stlmag.com/media/St-Louis-Ma ... -Free-Zoo/.
Stephen (w/ SLM)
Stephen (w/ SLM)
Other than the fact that I began my career working for the same person Ray Hartmann did, I rarely even come close to agreeing with him on any issue...however, he nailed this one.
As a city taxpayer it is annoying to carry the freight for those that defected to St. Chuck...why should I pay their admission to the zoo. I do like the aspect of a free zoo as much as anyone, and if St. Chuck, Lincoln, Franklin, St. Clair and Madison decided to join in, it might create enough revenue to keep it free for everyone, including them. If they don't want to join in, I say start charging them admission.
As a city taxpayer it is annoying to carry the freight for those that defected to St. Chuck...why should I pay their admission to the zoo. I do like the aspect of a free zoo as much as anyone, and if St. Chuck, Lincoln, Franklin, St. Clair and Madison decided to join in, it might create enough revenue to keep it free for everyone, including them. If they don't want to join in, I say start charging them admission.
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mophipsi wrote:As a city taxpayer it is annoying to carry the freight for those that defected to St. Chuck...why should I pay their admission to the zoo. I do like the aspect of a free zoo as much as anyone, and if St. Chuck, Lincoln, Franklin, St. Clair and Madison decided to join in, it might create enough revenue to keep it free for everyone, including them. If they don't want to join in, I say start charging them admission.
I'm glad to see you included the Illinois counties in your list. As someone with ties to the Metro East that still has family and acquaintances in the area, I've always found it interesting that people living in the Illinois suburbs often have a better view of St. Louis and spend more time and money in the city than some of their suburban Missouri counterparts. Meanwhile there are a lot of Missourians that still seem to think the world ends at the west bank of the Mississippi River.
Any expansion of the taxing district would be a tough sell in a tough economy, and crossing state lines might complicate matters somewhat, but I think you'd find people in the Metro East interested in the fate of St. Louis' cultural attractions that would be willing to support an expansion of the Zoo-Museum District.
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In many ways they (east metro) have the best of both worlds. They're often closer to downtown, Forest Park, etc. than far west suburban Missourians and the towns of Edwardsville, Columbia, Waterloo etc. are quiet and nice.
mophipsi wrote:As a city taxpayer it is annoying to carry the freight for those that defected to St. Chuck...why should I pay their admission to the zoo.
I thought a hotel occupancy tax funded the district. So it would be out-of-towners footing the bill.
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mophipsi wrote:Other than the fact that I began my career working for the same person Ray Hartmann did, I rarely even come close to agreeing with him on any issue...however, he nailed this one.
As a city taxpayer it is annoying to carry the freight for those that defected to St. Chuck...why should I pay their admission to the zoo. I do like the aspect of a free zoo as much as anyone, and if St. Chuck, Lincoln, Franklin, St. Clair and Madison decided to join in, it might create enough revenue to keep it free for everyone, including them. If they don't want to join in, I say start charging them admission.
They should be like the MO Botanical Gardens and check IDs to verify that you live either in the city or STL county. If the person doesn't live in these two areas, then charge them an admission fee. Out of towners pay through a hotel occupancy tax. I think this is something they should propose, though it may never happen.
10-intuition wrote:mophipsi wrote:Other than the fact that I began my career working for the same person Ray Hartmann did, I rarely even come close to agreeing with him on any issue...however, he nailed this one.
As a city taxpayer it is annoying to carry the freight for those that defected to St. Chuck...why should I pay their admission to the zoo. I do like the aspect of a free zoo as much as anyone, and if St. Chuck, Lincoln, Franklin, St. Clair and Madison decided to join in, it might create enough revenue to keep it free for everyone, including them. If they don't want to join in, I say start charging them admission.
They should be like the MO Botanical Gardens and check IDs to verify that you live either in the city or STL county. If the person doesn't live in these two areas, then charge them an admission fee. Out of towners pay through a hotel occupancy tax. I think this is something they should propose, though it may never happen.
Bingo. But don't hose the out-of-towners. Keep it reasonable like $4 for adults and $2 for kids.
Look at some other zoo admission prices:
Indianapolis: $14/adult $9 for kids
Louisville: $12/adult $8.50 for kids
Memphis: $13/adult $8 kids
Chicago Lincoln Park: free
Twin Cities: $16/adult $10/kids
Kansas City: $10.50/adult $7.00/kids
and the big one, San Diego: $35/adult $26 kids
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dweebe wrote:10-intuition wrote:mophipsi wrote:Other than the fact that I began my career working for the same person Ray Hartmann did, I rarely even come close to agreeing with him on any issue...however, he nailed this one.
As a city taxpayer it is annoying to carry the freight for those that defected to St. Chuck...why should I pay their admission to the zoo. I do like the aspect of a free zoo as much as anyone, and if St. Chuck, Lincoln, Franklin, St. Clair and Madison decided to join in, it might create enough revenue to keep it free for everyone, including them. If they don't want to join in, I say start charging them admission.
They should be like the MO Botanical Gardens and check IDs to verify that you live either in the city or STL county. If the person doesn't live in these two areas, then charge them an admission fee. Out of towners pay through a hotel occupancy tax. I think this is something they should propose, though it may never happen.
Bingo. But don't hose the out-of-towners. Keep it reasonable like $4 for adults and $2 for kids.
Look at some other zoo admission prices:
Indianapolis: $14/adult $9 for kids
Louisville: $12/adult $8.50 for kids
Memphis: $13/adult $8 kids
Chicago Lincoln Park: free
Twin Cities: $16/adult $10/kids
Kansas City: $10.50/adult $7.00/kids
and the big one, San Diego: $35/adult $26 kids
The price of admission to the San Diego Zoo never ceases to amaze me. There goes the "Hey I'm bored and it's nice - let's go to the zoo!"
Link to full articleSenate endorses allowing zoo, museums to charge non-residents
By Mark Schlinkmann
St. Louis Post-Dispatch
State Sen. Joan Bray’s effort to allow non-resident admission fees at Zoo-Museum District institutions has gained some traction in Jefferson City, winning preliminary Senate approval on Wednesday.
Bray succeeded in getting the Senate to amend her measure onto an omnibus bill dealing with a laundry list of local government issues from across the state.
Bray’s amendment was approved on a voice vote, as was the overall bill.
Bray in an interview emphasized that the bill wouldn’t require the St. Louis Zoo, St. Louis Art Museum, Missouri History Museum and St. Louis Science Center to impose fees for visitors from outside St. Louis and St. Louis County but would allow those institutions to do so.
“It just gives them an option they could consider” as a revenue source, the University City Democrat said. “It’s very permissive.”
State law currently bars any general admission fees at the four institutions. But the district’s fifth institution, the Missouri Botanical Garden, has that authority and uses it.
I'd hate to see these places start charging for admission. It's one of the unique things about St. Louis that we can brag about to out-of-towners.
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I agree. It's great to tell friends and family who visit that they can check out the Science Center, Art Museum, Zoo and History Museum for FREE. Seems as though the free attractions help attract visitors to the city as well. Why aren't we trying to find a way to make the Botanical Garden free instead of allowing the others to charge? I suppose it's a community decision.
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Here is a pic of the new pedestrian bridge at the Zoo. It is going to be a nice improvement to the zoo, making it safer to cross the street.
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I like it - though I also feel that the tunnel at Hampton and this bridge tell people that Forest Park isn't really for people as much as it is for cars. Separations like this are generally to aid car circulation and not pedestrians, though I see how both are helped. In the end pedestrians feel safer and cars can drive faster without paying as much attention. Win-win?
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It's the south entrance. You used to have to exit the parking lot and there were stairs and a ramp, you crossed Wells Drive (often there was a zoo employee there to help) and then enter the zoo.
Link to Google map: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=st+louis+ ... 6&t=h&z=18
Link to Google map: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=st+louis+ ... 6&t=h&z=18
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Unfortunately, FP has always been a park that caters to cars. It has always been a
cut-through for people coming from the CWE & Hampton. I like the bridge, simply because it is safer. I have seen one too many kids run across that street. It took a death to change something. One too many if you ask me. What a tragedy. I just hope they paint it. It is too far away from that rusty sculpture on Hampton to blend in. I am sure they will. The bridge was likely stored for a while after it was fabricated.
cut-through for people coming from the CWE & Hampton. I like the bridge, simply because it is safer. I have seen one too many kids run across that street. It took a death to change something. One too many if you ask me. What a tragedy. I just hope they paint it. It is too far away from that rusty sculpture on Hampton to blend in. I am sure they will. The bridge was likely stored for a while after it was fabricated.
Is Wells drive going to open soon? Traffic is a nightmare going north from Hampton into the park.
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I haven't seen a date, but Wells will reopen soon. Parking is worse right now as well since half of the south entrance parking lot is being rebuilt. That problem will go on for some time since they will tear up the other half once the eastern half is completed.
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Back in the 90s when my bro-in-law was at Metro, he mentioned there was some talk of trying to eliminate- or maybe it was minimize- traffic in the park and use circulators.
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What I wish the Zoo would do: Build a major parking garage down into what is now the South Lot. Currently the south lot is one flat plane of asphalt that fills up, compounded by free parkers stretched so far out on Wells that they almost connect to the north entrance free parkers along Kennedy Park. These folks are the ones in the most danger of being hit by a regular driver, and this includes a whole lot of families walking in the streets.
Take the flat South Lot which currently abutts the highway, build two (or even three) levels down, and really increase the capacity of the Zoo's parking. Plus, all those convenient spots will cut down on overflow free parkers (and their traffic) while providing for opportunities to increase the Zoo's coffers from parking charges.
Especially when the North Entrance becomes a super mess with Art Museum construction, the South Lot will be even more significant. If you could double or triple its usability while promoting ease of attendance and increasing net parking and gross zoo revenues, it only makes sense to look into it.
Just a thought.
Take the flat South Lot which currently abutts the highway, build two (or even three) levels down, and really increase the capacity of the Zoo's parking. Plus, all those convenient spots will cut down on overflow free parkers (and their traffic) while providing for opportunities to increase the Zoo's coffers from parking charges.
Especially when the North Entrance becomes a super mess with Art Museum construction, the South Lot will be even more significant. If you could double or triple its usability while promoting ease of attendance and increasing net parking and gross zoo revenues, it only makes sense to look into it.
Just a thought.
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Too late for the above to happen since they are already rebuilding the lot to prettify it as we speak.
Yeah, I've always thought they should build an underground garage, and maybe build some more zoo stuff on top. Probably very expensive, though.
I'm glad they're landscaping the South Lot; it's pretty ugly from the highway.
I'm glad they're landscaping the South Lot; it's pretty ugly from the highway.
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I think the giant "ZOO" sign is being moved from the front entrance to the south end of the south parking lot, by the highway. A huge pedestal has been constructed there.