Zoo-Museum District

the central scrutinizer · PostMar 27, 2009#262009-03-27T04:01+00:00

tbspqr wrote::: I find the Mo History Museum worthless - we have what - 3 or 4 museums dedicated to the history of the region (including one in the arch and one in the old court house) - is there any need for this one also? Awesome looking building that should be utilized for something a little more awesome. ::

Given that this is the oldest of the three, I would suggest that the more appropriate question is, do we have a need for the other two?

The correct answer - Yes.

ben1040 · PostMar 27, 2009#272009-03-27T05:23+00:00

This week's Red Meat is strangely apropos:

schenkenberg · PostMar 27, 2009#282009-03-27T15:13+00:00

Not mentioned in yesterday's and today's P-D pieces (though Sen. Bray admits it freely) is that this idea originated with Ray Hartmann, who just outlined his proposal in his debut "Think Again" opinion column for St. Louis Magazine (April 09). I posted a bit more here: http://stlmagblogs.typepad.com/the_edit ... d-slm.html

Stephen Schenkenberg

Editor, St. Louis Magazine

innov8ion · PostMar 27, 2009#292009-03-27T15:34+00:00

^ Nice teaser and it's a shame we can't read his perspective online

doug · PostMar 27, 2009#302009-03-27T16:11+00:00

Moorlander wrote:
innov8ion wrote:
Moorlander wrote:We can't start charging. One of our greatest selling points is the abundance of top notch free attractions.
Oh, it would be free! For tourists not from the St. Louis region and those that already pay the tax. For the citizens from local municipalities that do not contribute to the Zoo, no more free milk for you. If you want free milk, pay for your share of the cow.

That's not at all a practical solution. All that will do is piss people off.

The argument for those St. Chuck etc residents is that while visiting the museums they spend money elsewhere in the city.

No they don't. Forest Park is not a neighborhood. It's rather contained because of its size. They spend their money inside the zoo and take their minivans out west.

They could simply require ID's. If your zip code isn't in the district then charge the free riders an admission.

Alex Ihnen · PostMar 27, 2009#312009-03-27T16:15+00:00

^ There's already a city resident discount at the Botanical Garden. Of course they could charge people more based on their residency.

juiceinkirkwood · PostMar 28, 2009#322009-03-28T02:25+00:00

Don't charge admission to the zoo....noooooooo

jcity · PostMar 28, 2009#332009-03-28T05:57+00:00

if you live within one of the 16 counties of the MSA (outside of STL city and county) you should pay an admission fee or join the Z-M tax district. If you live outside of the MSA, it should be free. these little jokesters think that they shouldn't be part of the district is ridiculous. i'm almost always against raising taxes, but this is an integral part of our region. these residents use it and don't pay for it, unbelievable.

doug · PostMar 29, 2009#342009-03-29T01:39+00:00

^A regional institution that predates 90 percent of our housing outside 170. We need to support it as it defines our City and Region.

Forest Park is more than double the size of Central Park. The institutions within are world class and if we expect quality to sustain then we must pay for it.

St. Charles residents should have considered their drive when they moved other there.

We are not going to build any institutions in their County. If they want to use the ones which bear our name then they should pay like the rest of us! If the uncultured want their own museum or "zoo" then have them build one commemorating tractor pulls, corn growing, and farming. And let them fund it themselves because those that fund the Zoo-Museum District shall not reciprocate attendance.

publiceye · PostMar 29, 2009#352009-03-29T16:22+00:00

Forest Park is more than double the size of Central Park

Unless Forest Park has grown a lot or Central Park has shrunk a lot that isn't true. It is true that Forest Park is wonderful.

Alex Ihnen · PostMar 29, 2009#362009-03-29T16:30+00:00

Central Park = 843 acres

Forest Park = 1,293 acres

Maybe not twice as big, but it is 50% larger.

the central scrutinizer · PostMar 29, 2009#372009-03-29T17:34+00:00

Doug wrote:Forest Park is more than double the size of Central Park.

What unit of measure are you using? Because it's not the same one everyone else uses.

tbspqr · PostMar 30, 2009#382009-03-30T01:08+00:00

JCity wrote:if you live within one of the 16 counties of the MSA (outside of STL city and county) you should pay an admission fee or join the Z-M tax district. If you live outside of the MSA, it should be free. these little jokesters think that they shouldn't be part of the district is ridiculous. i'm almost always against raising taxes, but this is an integral part of our region. these residents use it and don't pay for it, unbelievable.

My thoughts exactly!

Alex Ihnen · PostMar 30, 2009#392009-03-30T03:18+00:00

The scary thing (or happy thing depending on how you look at it) is that if this holds true for the zoo and museums it should also hold true for the other infrastructure, libraries, businesses, etc. Before you know it someone might realize that we're all in this together and St. Louis will sink or swim as a metro area.

ben1040 · PostMar 30, 2009#402009-03-30T03:29+00:00

Grover wrote:The scary thing (or happy thing depending on how you look at it) is that if this holds true for the zoo and museums it should also hold true for the other infrastructure, libraries, businesses, etc. Before you know it someone might realize that we're all in this together and St. Louis will sink or swim as a metro area.

It's been that way for libraries for quite some time. The tiny little municipal libraries in the county, the city library, and the St Charles county library system all have reciprocity now.

Alex Ihnen · PostApr 15, 2009#412009-04-15T16:08+00:00

A bad turn of events:

Legislator to delete Zoo-Museum District expansion and tax from bill but will continue to push admission fees

By Mark Schlinkmann

ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH

04/15/2009

Revised legislation on the Zoo-Museum District to be submitted next week would allow district institutions to charge admission fees for nonresidents but would drop expanding the district and its property tax beyond St. Louis and St. Louis County.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/s ... enDocument

In my opinion this would be the worst possible outcome. (OK maybe making the zoo free to outsiders and $20 to residents would be worse)

I think it's an absolutely wonderful hallmark of St. Louis that the major museums and the zoo are free. It's a unique draw. Those coming from very far out of town are eating out, staying in hotels, etc.

dweebe · PostApr 15, 2009#422009-04-15T16:19+00:00

I was just in Indianapolis and went to check their zoo out. I changed my mind when I found out they charged $14 for adults.

I wouldn't mind if the St. Louis Zoo charged something reasonable for non-residents. $4 for adults and $2 for kids would certainly not be out of line.

stinky · PostApr 15, 2009#432009-04-15T19:26+00:00

Having other counties pay into it makes sense since the population has shifted and folks in other counties use the facilities.

moorlander · PostApr 15, 2009#442009-04-15T20:14+00:00

^ True, the problem is convincing them to now pay for what they have been getting for free.

Alex Ihnen · PostApr 15, 2009#452009-04-15T20:18+00:00

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DogtownBnR · PostApr 15, 2009#462009-04-15T20:18+00:00

I still think that raising the price for Parking by $5 or so would really generate some additional revenue. Also, raise the price a few bucks on some of the attractions within the park, that already charge a fee. (train, shows etc.) Keep the general admission free. If you charge admission to out of towners, they may not come. Then we lose the tax revenue from the hotels, food and other places that tourists frequent.

On top of that revenue, have the other counties in the region pitch in. Get their local politicians behind it once the economy picks up. It will be a hard sell now.

moorlander · PostApr 15, 2009#472009-04-15T21:12+00:00

The Saint Louis Art Museum has offered a second round of early retirement offers and implemented other cost-cutting measures in an effort to save $1.5 million.

The museum said Wednesday it faces a variety of challenges in this recession, including a decline in revenue from the Metropolitan Zoological Park and Museum District, reduced funding from its endowment, lower levels of annual giving, lower income from its shop and restaurant, depressed consumer spending and a drop in attendance due to the closure of the Interstate 64 and Hampton Avenue overpass.

The institution’s endowment has suffered a loss of nearly 30 percent in the past six months to $63.6 million as of Feb. 28, down from $87 million as of Aug. 31. “We rely less on our endowment than some of our peer institutions across the country,” John Weil, president of the museum’s board of commissioners, said in a statement. “It is none-the-less a significant source of operating revenue.”

http://stlouis.bizjournals.com/stlouis/ ... ily39.html

Alex Ihnen · PostApr 15, 2009#482009-04-15T21:26+00:00

While the tax district funding is great in a way - sales tax funding is problematic because of such shifts.

innov8ion · PostApr 15, 2009#492009-04-15T21:41+00:00

City government is going to take a hit with the drop in property values. Or will they still tax the same amount?

Alex Ihnen · PostApr 16, 2009#502009-04-16T01:50+00:00

^ I'd be interested in seeing the raw data. I don't believe that property values in the city have dropped all that much. And with so many tax-abated properties, this tax should see reasonable growth in the coming years even in home values are stagnant.

Zoo-Museum District

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