^ From a purely geographic perspective, STL would nicely fill a hole in their spokes
![]()
I’ve always suggested Copa to Pamama City. Perfect gateway and we love beaches on the Gulf. Or the pacific. Denver and Raleigh have flights there there, Not that out of reach.
Copa is the answer. It is about the only viable option if it happens. I know Brazil is wanted but our numbers don't support a flight to South America on a wide body, and that's what would be needed for that. If Southwest partners with a SA airline with a codeshare then it probably puts it more in play, but as i,s COPA is the only one I see doing anything.duckman wrote: ↑11:47 PM - Apr 24Copa I think would be the best candidate for south America. Can do it on a narrow body and tons of connections to the rest of South America.
Asia isn't happening unless we get some company to pony up money Bayer style for Lufthansa and I would say the chance of that happening is 0.0000000000000001% No one east of the west coast in a mid sized city has Asia service and we wouldn't be the first one to get it if some airline starts it. Again, MAYBE if Southwest starts a true codeshare with one but even then I think it's a very very unlikely.
- 199
Japan Airlines trials humanoid robots as ground handlers
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cpwp87j1llvo
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cpwp87j1llvo
- 8,914
Due to the upcoming severe lack of jet fuel availability don’t be surprised when you see ticket prices on these transatlantic flights soar and possibly be temporarily cancelled come summer and fall.
At least they should be able to get fuel on this side. Might help out over flights that stay inside Europe and can’t get it on either end.moorlander wrote: ↑9:17 PM - Apr 28Due to the upcoming severe lack of jet fuel availability don’t be surprised when you see ticket prices on these transatlantic flights soar and possibly be temporarily cancelled come summer and fall.
- 21
Just got back from Japan via Delta through Minneapolis. There were about 15 people that were making the same trek.BarryGlick wrote:Japan Airlines trials humanoid robots as ground handlers
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cpwp87j1llvo
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Spirit shuts down tonight.
No U.S. airline as large as Spirit has stopped flying since Eastern did so in 1991.
Spirits shutdown will severely hurt consumers and local economies, particularly in its major hubs like Fort Lauderdale (FLL), Orlando (MCO), Las Vegas (LAS), and Detroit (DTW). Spirit controls a massive portion of capacity in these markets, and their immediate demise will cause a sudden surge in domestic airfares across the board as price-competitive pressure disappears.
These hubs will lose millions of passengers. Spirit scheduled more departing seats from Fort Lauderdale — 5,724,902 (over 7 million passengers in 2025) — for the past 12 months (May 1, 2025, through April 30, 2026) than from any other airport, according to a Nexstar analysis of Cirium/Diio Mi airline schedule data. (The top 15 airports are listed below.)
And to be sure, the impact at Fort Lauderdale on air service alone — never mind the broader economic impact in a region where the airline’s new headquarters building abuts the airport — will be enormous.
But in terms of which airports would lose the most total service in the short term, Spirit’s top 15 airports by departing seats scheduled from May 2025 through April 2026 are: Fort Lauderdale (5,724,902), Orlando (3,797,099), Las Vegas (2,203,018), Detroit (2,109,577), Newark (1,742,651), Houston Intercontinental (1,486,386), Atlanta (1,399,919), Dallas-Fort Worth (1,217,968), Chicago O’Hare (1,185,141), New York-LaGuardia (1,149,627), Los Angeles LAX (1,025,825), Baltimore-Washington (880,562), Miami (832,794), New Orleans (802,469) and Tampa (729,729).
https://www.aol.com/news/airports-suffe ... 06280.html
17,000 jobs will be lost overnight.
Kansas City will lose around 341,000 yearly passengers at 3.06% decrease with loss of Ft. Lauderdale seasonal service and daily Las Vegas service.
Spirit ended in STL in January and barely recorded a percent in passengers.
No U.S. airline as large as Spirit has stopped flying since Eastern did so in 1991.
Spirits shutdown will severely hurt consumers and local economies, particularly in its major hubs like Fort Lauderdale (FLL), Orlando (MCO), Las Vegas (LAS), and Detroit (DTW). Spirit controls a massive portion of capacity in these markets, and their immediate demise will cause a sudden surge in domestic airfares across the board as price-competitive pressure disappears.
These hubs will lose millions of passengers. Spirit scheduled more departing seats from Fort Lauderdale — 5,724,902 (over 7 million passengers in 2025) — for the past 12 months (May 1, 2025, through April 30, 2026) than from any other airport, according to a Nexstar analysis of Cirium/Diio Mi airline schedule data. (The top 15 airports are listed below.)
And to be sure, the impact at Fort Lauderdale on air service alone — never mind the broader economic impact in a region where the airline’s new headquarters building abuts the airport — will be enormous.
But in terms of which airports would lose the most total service in the short term, Spirit’s top 15 airports by departing seats scheduled from May 2025 through April 2026 are: Fort Lauderdale (5,724,902), Orlando (3,797,099), Las Vegas (2,203,018), Detroit (2,109,577), Newark (1,742,651), Houston Intercontinental (1,486,386), Atlanta (1,399,919), Dallas-Fort Worth (1,217,968), Chicago O’Hare (1,185,141), New York-LaGuardia (1,149,627), Los Angeles LAX (1,025,825), Baltimore-Washington (880,562), Miami (832,794), New Orleans (802,469) and Tampa (729,729).
https://www.aol.com/news/airports-suffe ... 06280.html
17,000 jobs will be lost overnight.
Kansas City will lose around 341,000 yearly passengers at 3.06% decrease with loss of Ft. Lauderdale seasonal service and daily Las Vegas service.
Spirit ended in STL in January and barely recorded a percent in passengers.
As for Jet Fuel and air prices...
While the U.S. produces significant surpluses of gasoline and diesel, it remains a heavy consumer of jet fuel, often needing to import supplies to meet total domestic and international aviation
Refineries are optimized for yield based on crude oil quality, limiting the ability to instantly pivot production between diesel and jet fuel without altering refining margins and output configurations.
We consume the most jet fuel worldwide, but we heavily buy/import. So the prices are off the chart.
Example...
A Round-Trip ticket from San Jose, CA to STL in early April was approximately 419.00, today it is 1200.00
Now with Spirit's immediate shutdown, air tickets will soar even more.
While the U.S. produces significant surpluses of gasoline and diesel, it remains a heavy consumer of jet fuel, often needing to import supplies to meet total domestic and international aviation
Refineries are optimized for yield based on crude oil quality, limiting the ability to instantly pivot production between diesel and jet fuel without altering refining margins and output configurations.
We consume the most jet fuel worldwide, but we heavily buy/import. So the prices are off the chart.
Example...
A Round-Trip ticket from San Jose, CA to STL in early April was approximately 419.00, today it is 1200.00
Now with Spirit's immediate shutdown, air tickets will soar even more.
St. Louis International Airport launches real-time shuttle tracker for parking lots
https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/local ... 2e0dc188e3
https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/local ... 2e0dc188e3
- 6,128
^^^One small point where I disagreed with the Biden administration was blocking the Spirit/Jet Blue merger. I very much suspected it would lead to either this, or to Frontier picking up the pieces at a steep discount. Neither one is any good for consumers. Maybe Jet Blue will be able to buy some of the assets now, I suppose. So sorry for all the folks caught in that mess.
Federal Court ruled the merger violated the law. We wouldn't be in this mess if the government actually enforced the law every time one of these illegal mergers happened.symphonicpoet wrote:^^^One small point where I disagreed with the Biden administration was blocking the Spirit/Jet Blue merger. I very much suspected it would lead to either this, or to Frontier picking up the pieces at a steep discount. Neither one is any good for consumers. Maybe Jet Blue will be able to buy some of the assets now, I suppose. So sorry for all the folks caught in that mess.
Hopefully more airlines go under and it forced real institutional change with how we regulate airlines and how we view travel. Get us off this addiction to air travel.
Sent from my SM-S936U using Tapatalk
- 88
Originally, it was Spirit and Frontier that were looking to merge, and leaders at both companies were very much in favor of a merger. But Spirit shareholders balked and pushed for the JetBlue merger. They assumed that merger would be more profitable, even though the business models of the two airlines were very different, and the merger was very likely to be blocked by the DOJ (and it eventually was).symphonicpoet wrote: ↑6:34 AM - 12 days ago^^^One small point where I disagreed with the Biden administration was blocking the Spirit/Jet Blue merger. I very much suspected it would lead to either this, or to Frontier picking up the pieces at a steep discount. Neither one is any good for consumers. Maybe Jet Blue will be able to buy some of the assets now, I suppose. So sorry for all the folks caught in that mess.
Frontier and Spirit merger always made more sense. Anyone who pushed the merger with Jetblue instead I don't feel sorry for if they lost any money in this. I do feel sorry for the employees caught in the middle of it.jonkleinow wrote: ↑3:35 PM - 12 days agoOriginally, it was Spirit and Frontier that were looking to merge, and leaders at both companies were very much in favor of a merger. But Spirit shareholders balked and pushed for the JetBlue merger. They assumed that merger would be more profitable, even though the business models of the two airlines were very different, and the merger was very likely to be blocked by the DOJ (and it eventually was).symphonicpoet wrote: ↑6:34 AM - 12 days ago^^^One small point where I disagreed with the Biden administration was blocking the Spirit/Jet Blue merger. I very much suspected it would lead to either this, or to Frontier picking up the pieces at a steep discount. Neither one is any good for consumers. Maybe Jet Blue will be able to buy some of the assets now, I suppose. So sorry for all the folks caught in that mess.
- 6,128
The federal court ruled it was illegal largely because the Biden administration took the position that it was anti-competitive. As a general rule I'm not a fan of mergers. I wouldn't support the United/American merger. I strongly oppose the UP/NS merger. But those are mergers of healthy companies in heavily consolidated sectors. Spirit was anything but healthy. Mind you, they might have survived if Jet A hadn't doubled in price for some reason, so I don't think Biden is entirely at fault. But this is one of the very, very few points w here I really disagreed with the stance his administration took. And now here we are with less competition, and also with fewer flights, fewer jobs . . . The truth is my sympathy goes out to the folks who worked at Spirit and the folks who ended up stranded by this.StlAlex wrote: ↑10:00 AM - 12 days agoFederal Court ruled the merger violated the law. We wouldn't be in this mess if the government actually enforced the law every time one of these illegal mergers happened.symphonicpoet wrote:^^^One small point where I disagreed with the Biden administration was blocking the Spirit/Jet Blue merger. I very much suspected it would lead to either this, or to Frontier picking up the pieces at a steep discount. Neither one is any good for consumers. Maybe Jet Blue will be able to buy some of the assets now, I suppose. So sorry for all the folks caught in that mess.
Hopefully more airlines go under and it forced real institutional change with how we regulate airlines and how we view travel. Get us off this addiction to air travel.
Sent from my SM-S936U using Tapatalk
I can see that argument, but I don't really see how Frontier would be any better for consumers. Anyway, that said, my sympathy is very definitely with the employees left hanging by this.jshank83 wrote: ↑5:52 PM - 12 days agoFrontier and Spirit merger always made more sense. Anyone who pushed the merger with Jetblue instead I don't feel sorry for if they lost any money in this. I do feel sorry for the employees caught in the middle of it.jonkleinow wrote: ↑3:35 PM - 12 days agoOriginally, it was Spirit and Frontier that were looking to merge, and leaders at both companies were very much in favor of a merger. But Spirit shareholders balked and pushed for the JetBlue merger. They assumed that merger would be more profitable, even though the business models of the two airlines were very different, and the merger was very likely to be blocked by the DOJ (and it eventually was).symphonicpoet wrote: ↑6:34 AM - 12 days ago^^^One small point where I disagreed with the Biden administration was blocking the Spirit/Jet Blue merger. I very much suspected it would lead to either this, or to Frontier picking up the pieces at a steep discount. Neither one is any good for consumers. Maybe Jet Blue will be able to buy some of the assets now, I suppose. So sorry for all the folks caught in that mess.
I think this is a useful explanation of what happened: https://substack.com/home/post/p-196128795
Spirit's CEO was even on TV explaining the JetBlue deal was likely illegal and impossible.
Spirit's CEO was even on TV explaining the JetBlue deal was likely illegal and impossible.
I think Frontier/Spirit would have had a better chance to be approved. While either way a ULCC was getting killed off at least it was making Frontier who also was a ULCC stronger instead of just folding it into another "legacy type" and eliminating all that ULCC capacity. I guess we will see what happens now with that capacity vacuum and see who fills it. Jetblue seems to already be staking claim at Fort Lauderdale with big adds out of there.symphonicpoet wrote: ↑4:40 AM - 11 days agoI can see that argument, but I don't really see how Frontier would be any better for consumers. Anyway, that said, my sympathy is very definitely with the employees left hanging by this.jshank83 wrote: ↑5:52 PM - 12 days agoFrontier and Spirit merger always made more sense. Anyone who pushed the merger with Jetblue instead I don't feel sorry for if they lost any money in this. I do feel sorry for the employees caught in the middle of it.jonkleinow wrote: ↑3:35 PM - 12 days agoOriginally, it was Spirit and Frontier that were looking to merge, and leaders at both companies were very much in favor of a merger. But Spirit shareholders balked and pushed for the JetBlue merger. They assumed that merger would be more profitable, even though the business models of the two airlines were very different, and the merger was very likely to be blocked by the DOJ (and it eventually was).
Alaska is who I think Jetblue should be merging with if it comes to that. They both are similar airlines with little overlap seeing they each are strong on different coasts. I think together the really could really compete with the majors.
I've continued to check seats on BA/LH. I've yet to see a flight go outbound below 90%. Tonights flight to London is 95%+.
I think that’s a little disingenuous. He went on TV to make an argument for why his preferred merger option (Frontier) was better than the JetBlue’s. JetBlue revised their offer and shareholders decided they thought it was better / more likely to succeed.PeterXCV wrote:I think this is a useful explanation of what happened: https://substack.com/home/post/p-196128795
Spirit's CEO was even on TV explaining the JetBlue deal was likely illegal and impossible.
Spirit - Frontier would have been challenged with equal vigor.
Loads for April (customs)
Lufthansa Frankfurt 89.4%
British London 88.3% - first 7 flights (14 if you count both ways)
Air Canada Toronto 85%
Mexico/Caribbean I can't break out due to multiple carriers (CUN/PUJ), or they only had one flight before the season ended (MBJ/SJD). Broken out numbers will be released in three months.
Lufthansa Frankfurt 89.4%
British London 88.3% - first 7 flights (14 if you count both ways)
Air Canada Toronto 85%
Mexico/Caribbean I can't break out due to multiple carriers (CUN/PUJ), or they only had one flight before the season ended (MBJ/SJD). Broken out numbers will be released in three months.
The company filed for bankruptcy in 2024 and 2025, but yes let's blame the Iran war of the last 3 months.PeterXCV wrote: ↑12:59 PM - 11 days agoI think this is a useful explanation of what happened: https://substack.com/home/post/p-196128795
Spirit's CEO was even on TV explaining the JetBlue deal was likely illegal and impossible.
Critical thinking is dead. Party over alles!
Dulles is looking to get rid of the people movers: but at a scary price tag.
Lambert remodel: $3 billion (est)
Ohare: Started at $8 billion and is at $11 billion now with warnings it could soon see $12 billion to $13 billion budget
Dulles: $22 billion
LAX: $30 billion
Lambert remodel: $3 billion (est)
Ohare: Started at $8 billion and is at $11 billion now with warnings it could soon see $12 billion to $13 billion budget
Dulles: $22 billion
LAX: $30 billion
Any updates on timeline?