urbanSTL

Nextdoor is getting a helping of this.

Stl Restaurant Review- Why Restaurants Are Leaving Downtown St. Louis


https://stlouisrestaurantreview.com/res ... -st-louis/

• 417-529-1133
 
• Marty@STLMedia.Agency
 
• 36 Four Seasons Shopping CTR, #310, Chesterfield, MO 63017

Checks out

Got to the bottom of it….
Also CW data is only buildings east of Tucker

They had Mansion House out of the data in Q3 and added it back in Q4. Jefferson arms apparently has been riding along for a while

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

12:20 AM - Mar 10

Got to the bottom of it….
Also CW data is only buildings east of Tucker

They had Mansion House out of the data in Q3 and added it back in Q4.  Jefferson arms apparently has been riding along for a while

Better rent growth than I would have suggested.  In addition to Jefferson Arms and Mansion House, are there any other largish redevelopment projects that would further drive down the vacancy rate?  Any other large multifamily vacancies ?  

STLAPTS wrote: ↑

2:19 AM - Mar 10

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

12:20 AM - Mar 10

Got to the bottom of it….
Also CW data is only buildings east of Tucker

They had Mansion House out of the data in Q3 and added it back in Q4.  Jefferson arms apparently has been riding along for a while

Better rent growth than I would have suggested.  In addition to Jefferson Arms and Mansion House, are there any other largish redevelopment projects that would further drive down the vacancy rate?  Any other large multifamily vacancies ?  

I wouldn’t be surprised if the the 60 unit project at Locust and 10th by Blackline is part of it. It opens later this summer

dbInSouthCity wrote:Got to the bottom of it….
Also CW data is only buildings east of Tucker

They had Mansion House out of the data in Q3 and added it back in Q4. Jefferson arms apparently has been riding along for a while

Makes absolutely no sense to include thise 600+ units when none of them can even be leased right now.

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quincunx wrote: ↑

11:11 PM - Mar 07

Nextdoor is getting a helping of this.

Stl Restaurant Review- Why Restaurants Are Leaving Downtown St. Louis


https://stlouisrestaurantreview.com/res ... -st-louis/

• 417-529-1133
 
• Marty@STLMedia.Agency
 
• 36 Four Seasons Shopping CTR, #310, Chesterfield, MO 63017

Checks out

This article hits the nail on the head, not only from what I've observed, but from what I've heard from MANY.  So this article HOPEFULLY makes it's way to the Mayor's desk. Does it get moved down the "to do" list? I get it, the list is long, but the push has been to improve Downtown. There needs to be a VERY strong push to fix the basics, then we'll see true growth Downtown. 

DogtownBnR wrote:

quincunx wrote: ↑

11:11 PM - Mar 07

Nextdoor is getting a helping of this.

Stl Restaurant Review- Why Restaurants Are Leaving Downtown St. Louis


https://stlouisrestaurantreview.com/res ... -st-louis/

• 417-529-1133
 
• Marty@STLMedia.Agency
 
• 36 Four Seasons Shopping CTR, #310, Chesterfield, MO 63017

Checks out

This article hits the nail on the head, not only from what I've observed, but from what I've heard from MANY.  So this article HOPEFULLY makes it's way to the Mayor's desk. Does it get moved down the "to do" list? I get it, the list is long, but the push has been to improve Downtown. There needs to be a VERY strong push to fix the basics, then we'll see true growth Downtown. 

I mean not really. Downtown's restaurant scene is actually way better than pretty much anything else about it? Retail is what's in the gutter, office is doing abysmally. Restaurants have been not that bad. Plenty close but lots also open.

Doesn't help that the two examples the article provides are objectively not good examples. Wheelhouse was known as a problem, with multiple police calls and as a predatory environment for women, downtown is probably healthier without it, and Taste of St. Louis has fallen into irrelevance after leaving downtown.

A better example would have been Hot Pizza Cold Beer.

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StlAlex wrote: ↑

7:01 PM - Mar 11

DogtownBnR wrote:

quincunx wrote: ↑

11:11 PM - Mar 07

Nextdoor is getting a helping of this.

Stl Restaurant Review- Why Restaurants Are Leaving Downtown St. Louis


https://stlouisrestaurantreview.com/res ... -st-louis/


Checks out

This article hits the nail on the head, not only from what I've observed, but from what I've heard from MANY.  So this article HOPEFULLY makes it's way to the Mayor's desk. Does it get moved down the "to do" list? I get it, the list is long, but the push has been to improve Downtown. There needs to be a VERY strong push to fix the basics, then we'll see true growth Downtown. 

I mean not really. Downtown's restaurant scene is actually way better than pretty much anything else about it? Retail is what's in the gutter, office is doing abysmally. Restaurants have been not that bad. Plenty close but lots also open.

Doesn't help that the two examples the article provides are objectively not good examples. Wheelhouse was known as a problem, with multiple police calls and as a predatory environment for women, downtown is probably healthier without it, and Taste of St. Louis has fallen into irrelevance after leaving downtown.

A better example would have been Hot Pizza Cold Beer.

Sent from my SM-S936U using Tapatalk

Agree on Wheelhouse & retail, but when was the last time Downtown was close to a retail hub or even a small hub for shopping. Probably going back to Union Station & STL Centre.
Not that long ago, we had staple restaurants like Kemoll's, Gittos, Shannon's, Lucas Park, Prime 1000, Dubliner, J Bucks... I can go on & on. I get it, restaurants come & go, but I am guessing most cities have not seen this kind of exodus. I know the story, BPV, covid, work from home/hybrid work, etc. played a role, but Downtown's core is still a long way from 7-10 years ago. And yes, we've added restaurants, but we've lost way more. 

DogtownBnR wrote:

StlAlex wrote: ↑

7:01 PM - Mar 11

DogtownBnR wrote: This article hits the nail on the head, not only from what I've observed, but from what I've heard from MANY.  So this article HOPEFULLY makes it's way to the Mayor's desk. Does it get moved down the "to do" list? I get it, the list is long, but the push has been to improve Downtown. There needs to be a VERY strong push to fix the basics, then we'll see true growth Downtown. 

I mean not really. Downtown's restaurant scene is actually way better than pretty much anything else about it? Retail is what's in the gutter, office is doing abysmally. Restaurants have been not that bad. Plenty close but lots also open.

Doesn't help that the two examples the article provides are objectively not good examples. Wheelhouse was known as a problem, with multiple police calls and as a predatory environment for women, downtown is probably healthier without it, and Taste of St. Louis has fallen into irrelevance after leaving downtown.

A better example would have been Hot Pizza Cold Beer.

Sent from my SM-S936U using Tapatalk

Agree on Wheelhouse & retail, but when was the last time Downtown was close to a retail hub or even a small hub for shopping. Probably going back to Union Station & STL Centre.
Not that long ago, we had staple restaurants like Kemoll's, Gittos, Shannon's, Lucas Park, Prime 1000, Dubliner, J Bucks... I can go on & on. I get it, restaurants come & go, but I am guessing most cities have not seen this kind of exodus. I know the story, BPV, covid, work from home/hybrid work, etc. played a role, but Downtown's core is still a long way from 7-10 years ago. And yes, we've added restaurants, but we've lost way more. 

I definitely would agree that downtown does not have as many chain restaurants as the ideal would be, but not it also has Salt and Smoke, Katie's, several in Union Station, Sugarfire, Maggie O'Brien's, Sports and Social, Hi Pointe that have all opened as those others have closed.

I also think the non-chain restaurants in STL are generally stronger than our peers because of the lack of chains compete with.

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DogtownBnR wrote: ↑

7:16 PM - Mar 11

StlAlex wrote: ↑

7:01 PM - Mar 11

DogtownBnR wrote: This article hits the nail on the head, not only from what I've observed, but from what I've heard from MANY.  So this article HOPEFULLY makes it's way to the Mayor's desk. Does it get moved down the "to do" list? I get it, the list is long, but the push has been to improve Downtown. There needs to be a VERY strong push to fix the basics, then we'll see true growth Downtown. 

I mean not really. Downtown's restaurant scene is actually way better than pretty much anything else about it? Retail is what's in the gutter, office is doing abysmally. Restaurants have been not that bad. Plenty close but lots also open.

Doesn't help that the two examples the article provides are objectively not good examples. Wheelhouse was known as a problem, with multiple police calls and as a predatory environment for women, downtown is probably healthier without it, and Taste of St. Louis has fallen into irrelevance after leaving downtown.

A better example would have been Hot Pizza Cold Beer.

Sent from my SM-S936U using Tapatalk

Agree on Wheelhouse & retail, but when was the last time Downtown was close to a retail hub or even a small hub for shopping. Probably going back to Union Station & STL Centre.
Not that long ago, we had staple restaurants like Kemoll's, Gittos, Shannon's, Lucas Park, Prime 1000, Dubliner, J Bucks... I can go on & on. I get it, restaurants come & go, but I am guessing most cities have not seen this kind of exodus. I know the story, BPV, covid, work from home/hybrid work, etc. played a role, but Downtown's core is still a long way from 7-10 years ago. And yes, we've added restaurants, but we've lost way more. 

and today we have Blood & Sand, Katies, Idol Wolf, Ramseys Kitchen and more today than before covid started and there is another 15 or so on the way before summers end 

I was focusing on the central core of Downtown, Arch (east), Wash Ave. (north), Ballpark (south), Tucker (west). For sure, we've seen nice additions like WGP, etc. but there used to be restaurants filling gaps downtown. Now there are 'deserts' between areas of Downtown. I am eager to see more restaurants, more residents, clean-up & rehab of vacant properties, infrastructure improvements, more visible public safety & other things that will bring the masses back. We have world class attractions, we really just need residents, continued foot traffic & spending for big events & a change in perceptions. The rest will come. 

DogtownBnR wrote:I was focusing on the central core of Downtown, Arch (east), Wash Ave. (north), Ballpark (south), Tucker (west). For sure, we've seen nice additions like WGP, etc. but there used to be restaurants filling gaps downtown. Now there are 'deserts' between areas of Downtown. I am eager to see more restaurants, more residents, clean-up & rehab of vacant properties, infrastructure improvements, more visible public safety & other things that will bring the masses back. We have world class attractions, we really just need residents, continued foot traffic & spending for big events & a change in perceptions. The rest will come. 

Getting Chemical and RWX redeveloped would be huge for this. Theyre like a black holes holding that area back. From world class success.

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StlAlex wrote: ↑

7:50 PM - Mar 11

DogtownBnR wrote:I was focusing on the central core of Downtown, Arch (east), Wash Ave. (north), Ballpark (south), Tucker (west). For sure, we've seen nice additions like WGP, etc. but there used to be restaurants filling gaps downtown. Now there are 'deserts' between areas of Downtown. I am eager to see more restaurants, more residents, clean-up & rehab of vacant properties, infrastructure improvements, more visible public safety & other things that will bring the masses back. We have world class attractions, we really just need residents, continued foot traffic & spending for big events & a change in perceptions. The rest will come. 

Getting Chemical and RWX redeveloped would be huge for this. Theyre like a black holes holding that area back. From world class success.

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Those are HUGE pieces of the puzzle for the future of our Downtown....For sure!

DogtownBnR wrote: ↑

7:46 PM - Mar 11

I was focusing on the central core of Downtown, Arch (east), Wash Ave. (north), Ballpark (south), Tucker (west). For sure, we've seen nice additions like WGP, etc. but there used to be restaurants filling gaps downtown. Now there are 'deserts' between areas of Downtown. I am eager to see more restaurants, more residents, clean-up & rehab of vacant properties, infrastructure improvements, more visible public safety & other things that will bring the masses back. We have world class attractions, we really just need residents, continued foot traffic & spending for big events & a change in perceptions. The rest will come. 

I would agree there’s a black hole of activity, especially restaurants/bars in the area bounded by Wash Ave/Walnut & Broadway/8th. It’s 16 blocks which as another poster notes, includes one massive abandoned parking garage, two ugly Keiner garages, an abandoned RWX, an abandoned Chemical, an unused US Bank plaza (why why did we demo Ambassador), 3 other parking garages, two surface lots. It’s just impossible to build activity from that development so it will simply have to change

The positives for food/drink downtown:
-The food truck Wednesday at Old Post Office Plaza has been a decent success I think
-Wash Ave is decently filled out and has people walking around usually
-Cobblestone is a fantastic asset on the landing
-There do seem to be a few draws - 360, Katie’s, Salt n Smoke,  Idol Wolf, etc

Negatives for food/drink downtown:
-It needs Gittos to come back or something like that. Downtown has definitely lost a lot of the classic StL food scene and regional/national tourists would have to venture out to neighborhoods to get that (which unfortunately are cutoff from downtown by our horrible interstates)
-Happy hour/casual bars are scarce
-Considering the coffee boom, coffee shops are pretty scarce for a downtown
-Downtown is dead a lot but when it does boom and pop on a Saturday with a bunch of events (Cardinals, Battlehawks, concert type saturday), there aren’t enough places for demand
-For whatever reason, downtown stakeholders seems to wane wanting nightlife out, which I think is a very bad idea

Bridge didn’t close, it shifted to event based operations

So closed but the owner can’t offload the real estate so it’ll sit empty but every other Saturday between April and October? Jk jk.

Event spaces are sad though.

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

11:34 AM - Mar 12

Bridge didn’t close, it shifted to event based operations

Still a bummer.. great vibe for a bite and a drink.

UKRAFT is also excellent.


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Should be a good Thursday to Monday for downtown hotels and restaurants this coming week (also volleyball at the dome again)

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

10:32 PM - Mar 15

Should be a good Thursday to Monday for downtown hotels and restaurants this coming week (also volleyball at the dome again)

Amazing this should make downtown look lively. Kentucky probably best traveling NCAA tourney fanbase plus hometown Missouri, Purdue and Iowa St. Would be nice to have some more combining events downtown to really make it popping but should be lively enough

Hope we have downtown nice and clean for this week

Wish we had a couple of our big projects like Jefferson Arms, Tucker redo, and Brickline through downtown ready for the public to show off our city but hopefully positive week of impressions coming

I also hope these visitors go out and see more of the city like Soulard, Forest Park, CWE, Delmar Loop, Tower Grove, Cherokee, S Grand, Lafayette Sq, etc. I always worry just downtown won’t do enough for people to take away an A+ review. Will be looking out for social media reactions this week

Will they be running the blue line?