its not unkept, its one of the cleanest downtowns amongst peer cities. we have a 16 hour a day 7 day a week clean team, a professional 24-7 landscaping teamSTLcommenter wrote: ↑6:08 PM - Mar 20The lack of businesses is one thing, but the broken glass, litter, and overall “unkept” feeling of the majority of downtown is what really bugs me. It doesn’t even look like we’re trying to make it presentable or attractive.GoHarvOrGoHome wrote:Walking around downtown today was interesting and gave me mixed feelings. On one hand it's a beautiful day and there are tons of visitors walking around. Feels alive.
Unfortunately it feels very exposing as well. Tons of gawking and pointing at our large abandoned buildings. People commenting on broken auto glass on the sidewalks, I guess the Peabody Building got shot up last weekend as well because like four more windows are busted out and the sidewalks below are covered with broken glass.
These events are still great because they drive money towards downtown and national attention towards STL, but I can't help think about how many of these visitors will leave with a diminished opinion of STL because of how Downtown is.
Unfortunately no easy solution here. We just got to be continuing the good work of pushing for regional cooperation and supporting downtown businesses. This is why a dollar spent downtown is worth two dollars spent elsewhere. A resident downtown is worth more to the region than two living in the city. Probably worth more than three residents in the suburbs.
It’s particularly embarrassing when you consider that most of the small college towns these fans are coming from have more lively downtowns than ours.
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Downtown St. Louis is not dirty to me. It just has outdated infrastructure and needs much more development/infill.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑6:23 PM - Mar 20its not unkept, its one of the cleanest downtowns amongst peer cities. we have a 16 hour a day 7 day a week clean team, a professional 24-7 landscaping teamSTLcommenter wrote: ↑6:08 PM - Mar 20The lack of businesses is one thing, but the broken glass, litter, and overall “unkept” feeling of the majority of downtown is what really bugs me. It doesn’t even look like we’re trying to make it presentable or attractive.GoHarvOrGoHome wrote:Walking around downtown today was interesting and gave me mixed feelings. On one hand it's a beautiful day and there are tons of visitors walking around. Feels alive.
Unfortunately it feels very exposing as well. Tons of gawking and pointing at our large abandoned buildings. People commenting on broken auto glass on the sidewalks, I guess the Peabody Building got shot up last weekend as well because like four more windows are busted out and the sidewalks below are covered with broken glass.
These events are still great because they drive money towards downtown and national attention towards STL, but I can't help think about how many of these visitors will leave with a diminished opinion of STL because of how Downtown is.
Unfortunately no easy solution here. We just got to be continuing the good work of pushing for regional cooperation and supporting downtown businesses. This is why a dollar spent downtown is worth two dollars spent elsewhere. A resident downtown is worth more to the region than two living in the city. Probably worth more than three residents in the suburbs.
It’s particularly embarrassing when you consider that most of the small college towns these fans are coming from have more lively downtowns than ours.
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Good news is Tucker has fresh pavement on it, pause in work for this weekend before bump outs, markings and bike lane work next
100%. Downtown's color is E8D9C3. Very bland. Thats why on a quiet rainy/overcast day it feels like you've been sent to a special kind of urban planning purgatory.goat314 wrote: ↑6:45 PM - Mar 20Downtown St. Louis is not dirty to me. It just has outdated infrastructure and needs much more development/infill.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑6:23 PM - Mar 20its not unkept, its one of the cleanest downtowns amongst peer cities. we have a 16 hour a day 7 day a week clean team, a professional 24-7 landscaping teamSTLcommenter wrote: ↑6:08 PM - Mar 20The lack of businesses is one thing, but the broken glass, litter, and overall “unkept” feeling of the majority of downtown is what really bugs me. It doesn’t even look like we’re trying to make it presentable or attractive.
It’s particularly embarrassing when you consider that most of the small college towns these fans are coming from have more lively downtowns than ours.
Public/private garages need to be modernized and managed better.
Curbs/Sidewalks/Streets need to use the same materials consistently.
Triple the number of trees including year-round blooms.
Triple the number of retail establishments.
RX-Chemical-AT&T-Courts
bada bing bada boom. idk why STL acts like its hard.
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idk why STL acts like its hard.
No money being invested And where would the money come from?
No money being invested And where would the money come from?
@dbInSouthCity
Is the Domino's on Tucker open yet?
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Is the Domino's on Tucker open yet?
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Are we not counting the $2b in downtown projects under construction or soon to start?BarryGlick wrote: ↑8:22 PM - Mar 20idk why STL acts like its hard.
No money being invested And where would the money come from?
Opened last weekStlAlex wrote: ↑8:35 PM - Mar 20@dbInSouthCity
Is the Domino's on Tucker open yet?
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Good to hear. Always nice to get a national chain opening downtown. Ofc no media coverage smh.dbInSouthCity wrote:Opened last weekStlAlex wrote: ↑8:35 PM - Mar 20@dbInSouthCity
Is the Domino's on Tucker open yet?
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We might need a refresher because I'm having a tough time figuring where that number is coming from. Love the optimism but I don't think you can count 909 Chestnut and or Cordish demo yet. Great ideas and proposal/renderings but no really financial backing that what I understand and it seems that Jefferson Arms is struggling to get tothe finish line
OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD:dredger wrote:We might need a refresher because I'm having a tough time figuring where that number is coming from. Love the optimism but I don't think you can count 909 Chestnut and or Cordish demo yet. Great ideas and proposal/renderings but no really financial backing that what I understand and it seems that Jefferson Arms is struggling to get tothe finish line
Under construction:
-Wash Ave food hall ($17M)
-Mansion House redevelopment ($195M)
-New apartments at 1001 Locust ($16M)
-US Bank improvements ($9M)
-Jefferson Arms ($145M)
-Le Meridian renovations ($1.5M)
Total: $384M
Planned:
-Sheraton Hotel ($46M)
-Millennium redevelopment ($670M)
-AT&T Redevelopment ($350M)
-Kimpton Hotel ($100M)
Total: $1.17B
Not sure but announced at some point:
-Bobby's Place to apartments ($16M)
-Paul Brown improvements ($12M)
Total: $28M
Grand Total: $1.58B
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AHM downtown west projects $300m
Another $20m in Landing projects
Few other unannounced
Another $20m in Landing projects
Few other unannounced
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I thought AHM in DTW was dead?
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Thanks dbln,
The kicker will be financing as the big three of Millennium, AT&T and AHM is a pretty big chunk of cash. But huge impact of $1.5b if all three can start moving.
The kicker will be financing as the big three of Millennium, AT&T and AHM is a pretty big chunk of cash. But huge impact of $1.5b if all three can start moving.
Anything on what financing looks like/will look like for AT&T? My uneducated mind would assume it would be decent considering how much they want to put into this building and the target demographic being higher income residents as opposed to a more average demographic like the AHM apartments.dbInSouthCity wrote:Millennium financing is pretty solid already.
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Until they start building it’s hard to me to count any money that is just proposed. There have been way too many projects that fall through.
Commercial real estate financing is a largely a function of risk tolerance by lender and equity partners as well as the strength of the project sponsor. The higher the perceived risk, financing and equity become more difficult. Tax credits and other forms of subsidy help but ultimately the lender and equity partners evaluate the likelihood of the projected economics of a project panning out (lease rates, absorption rate, etc.) and the sponsor ability to step up if they don't. For example, I predicted a couple of years ago that Albion West End would be the first project to break ground between Two Cardinal Way, AHMs downtown high-rise, and Albion West End. Proven location, proven rents, immediate proximity to BJC / Wash U / Cortex, in the highest rent district in STL metro. If it falls short, Albion is a large institutional investor that can right size things. Two Cadinal way will get started in the next 2-5 years. AHMs higrise would surprise me anytime soon although I hope I am wrong.StlAlex wrote: ↑11:12 PM - Mar 21Anything on what financing looks like/will look like for AT&T? My uneducated mind would assume it would be decent considering how much they want to put into this building and the target demographic being higher income residents as opposed to a more average demographic like the AHM apartments.dbInSouthCity wrote:Millennium financing is pretty solid already.
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AHM's target demographic also isn't high income/luxary like Albion and 2CW is.STLAPTS wrote:Commercial real estate financing is a largely a function of risk tolerance by lender and equity partners as well as the strength of the project sponsor. The higher the perceived risk, financing and equity become more difficult. Tax credits and other forms of subsidy help but ultimately the lender and equity partners evaluate the likelihood of the projected economics of a project panning out (lease rates, absorption rate, etc.) and the sponsor ability to step up if they don't. For example, I predicted a couple of years ago that Albion West End would be the first project to break ground between Two Cardinal Way, AHMs downtown high-rise, and Albion West End. Proven location, proven rents, immediate proximity to BJC / Wash U / Cortex, in the highest rent district in STL metro. If it falls short, Albion is a large institutional investor that can right size things. Two Cadinal way will get started in the next 2-5 years. AHMs higrise would surprise me anytime soon although I hope I am wrong.StlAlex wrote: ↑11:12 PM - Mar 21Anything on what financing looks like/will look like for AT&T? My uneducated mind would assume it would be decent considering how much they want to put into this building and the target demographic being higher income residents as opposed to a more average demographic like the AHM apartments.dbInSouthCity wrote:Millennium financing is pretty solid already.
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For the two smaller infill buildings you are correct. For the timber high rise, unless something has changed, it certainly is. The last numbers that I saw were 500k a unit construction cost for the tower . That would require top of market rents. Top of market in an unproven location where the property they currently own is struggling.StlAlex wrote: ↑7:24 PM - Mar 22AHM's target demographic also isn't high income/luxary like Albion and 2CW is.STLAPTS wrote:Commercial real estate financing is a largely a function of risk tolerance by lender and equity partners as well as the strength of the project sponsor. The higher the perceived risk, financing and equity become more difficult. Tax credits and other forms of subsidy help but ultimately the lender and equity partners evaluate the likelihood of the projected economics of a project panning out (lease rates, absorption rate, etc.) and the sponsor ability to step up if they don't. For example, I predicted a couple of years ago that Albion West End would be the first project to break ground between Two Cardinal Way, AHMs downtown high-rise, and Albion West End. Proven location, proven rents, immediate proximity to BJC / Wash U / Cortex, in the highest rent district in STL metro. If it falls short, Albion is a large institutional investor that can right size things. Two Cadinal way will get started in the next 2-5 years. AHMs higrise would surprise me anytime soon although I hope I am wrong.StlAlex wrote: ↑11:12 PM - Mar 21Anything on what financing looks like/will look like for AT&T? My uneducated mind would assume it would be decent considering how much they want to put into this building and the target demographic being higher income residents as opposed to a more average demographic like the AHM apartments.
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Well atm it seemed like the smaller buildings aren't even gonna happen, much less the tower.STLAPTS wrote:For the two smaller infill buildings you are correct. For the timber high rise, unless something has changed, it certainly is. The last numbers that I saw were 500k a unit construction cost for the tower . That would require top of market rents. Top of market in an unproven location where the property they currently own is struggling.StlAlex wrote: ↑7:24 PM - Mar 22AHM's target demographic also isn't high income/luxary like Albion and 2CW is.STLAPTS wrote: Commercial real estate financing is a largely a function of risk tolerance by lender and equity partners as well as the strength of the project sponsor. The higher the perceived risk, financing and equity become more difficult. Tax credits and other forms of subsidy help but ultimately the lender and equity partners evaluate the likelihood of the projected economics of a project panning out (lease rates, absorption rate, etc.) and the sponsor ability to step up if they don't. For example, I predicted a couple of years ago that Albion West End would be the first project to break ground between Two Cardinal Way, AHMs downtown high-rise, and Albion West End. Proven location, proven rents, immediate proximity to BJC / Wash U / Cortex, in the highest rent district in STL metro. If it falls short, Albion is a large institutional investor that can right size things. Two Cadinal way will get started in the next 2-5 years. AHMs higrise would surprise me anytime soon although I hope I am wrong.
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I would tend to agree at least not anytime soon. They do seem committed and own the land which gives me a little hope.StlAlex wrote: ↑8:09 PM - Mar 22Well atm it seemed like the smaller buildings aren't even gonna happen, much less the tower.STLAPTS wrote:For the two smaller infill buildings you are correct. For the timber high rise, unless something has changed, it certainly is. The last numbers that I saw were 500k a unit construction cost for the tower . That would require top of market rents. Top of market in an unproven location where the property they currently own is struggling.StlAlex wrote: ↑7:24 PM - Mar 22AHM's target demographic also isn't high income/luxary like Albion and 2CW is.
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JFC, SLDC thinks demolishing the charlie gitto's building will help Downtown somehow https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... -demo.html
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There is zero reason to tear down the Charlie Gitto’s building (unless there is no way to tear down the garage without doing so, but I seriously doubt that). This is the exact type of building we need more of in downtown and already have torn down far too many of. A capable developer would easily be able to bring this back to life and work into a redevelopment of that block and the railway exchange.PeterXCV wrote:JFC, SLDC thinks demolishing the charlie gitto's building will help Downtown somehow https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... -demo.html