urbanSTL

STLEnginerd wrote: ↑

Jan 18, 2024

The Clayton School Board apologized Tuesday for its lack of transparency around the district’s plans for the multi-million-dollar Caleres headquarters and said the property could potentially be sold to a developer.

Then what is the PLAN?  Saying you have a plan and then saying maybe the property could be sold to a developer means you have no plan.

I think it would be interesting if the school was planning to replace aging facilities with a new more compact campus at the Caleres site.  They could then expand the community center and divest of any remaining school property for private development with no disruption to the existing school in the mean time.  Even more interesting if they were planning to reno the existing Caleres buildings instead of demo.  Adaptive reuse is the most environmentally friendly approach and i could imagine an office conversion to a school should be possible, although IMHO its unlikely.

Of course all that would be a PLAN.  Which they could outline for evaluation by the voters.  I don't weep for them regarding loss of property taxes IF the PLAN is sound and is supported by and benefits the electorate.

This plan would be fine. Using the land to build a new school with the intention of selling the current one off as well as extra land. I’d at least understand that plan. I can’t think of many other options that would make any sense.

I’d also be curious why they couldn’t just build whatever other building they need on what google maps calls Newman green. There is a huge park next door you don’t need that green space. Put a building on it.

jshank83 wrote: ↑

Jan 22, 2024

School district backing out of sale.

https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... trict.html

Good

They're moving to 8182 Maryland and 8235 Forsyth. Regions Bank is in the Maryland building while Energizer is in the Forsyth building.

No information on square footage or price.

Overall a positive move. Hopefully their campus can be redeveloped into something better than an office campus.

I drove past the other day on the way out to pick up some county paperwork. I do have to wonder what will happen to the shoe shoe. I've always rather enjoyed that thing.

https://www.stlmag.com/news/opera-theat ... ts-center/

Opera Theater of St. Louis is buying Caleres headquarters with plans to tear it down and build a new preforming arts center.

^They should put it where Centene wanted to build a Performing Arts Center - Maryland and Forsyth.

TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote: ↑

Mar 24, 2025

Agree.  Everyone was up in arms of the school district taking this and it coming off the tax rolls.  
The only thing this does is make Enterprise's campus more valuable and maybe they move Downtown?  I hope that family is our saving grace.  We need the Downtown innovator, the first to say, yeah, lets do this thing. 

I keep seeing people float this notion of enterprise moving downtown, for what seems like years now, but has there ever been any inkling they have even considered it or is this all hopes and prayers? Didn’t they just buy a plot of land next to their current campus to expand their real estate there recently?

I’d be as happy as anyone for them to build a tower downtown and slap their name on it but I don’t know where it is coming from that they have put much thought in it.

jshank83 wrote: ↑

Mar 25, 2025

TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote: ↑

Mar 24, 2025

Agree.  Everyone was up in arms of the school district taking this and it coming off the tax rolls.  
The only thing this does is make Enterprise's campus more valuable and maybe they move Downtown?  I hope that family is our saving grace.  We need the Downtown innovator, the first to say, yeah, lets do this thing. 

I keep seeing people float this notion of enterprise moving downtown, for what seems like years now, but has there ever been any inkling they have even considered it or is this all hopes and prayers? Didn’t they just buy a plot of land next to their current campus to expand their real estate there recently?

I’d be as happy as anyone for them to build a tower downtown and slap their name on it but I don’t know where it is coming from that they have put much thought in it.

I've personally never seen any concrete evidence that they'd move downtown specifically, but there is plenty of good reasons for them to make a HQ move.

We've seen lots of companies move away from large sprawling campuses in favor of the CBDs. Energizer, Emerson, Build a Bear, Larson, Caleres all moved from campuses in favor of CBD locations. So I wouldn't be shocked at all if Enterprise did as well.

Their current campus currently has hundreds of thousands of sf of space up for lease and their massive parking garages have lots of empty space when I ride by on the Metro during the middle of the day. So it's probably a safe bet that they have tons of excess space. I'm pretty sure BMO Bank also has offices on their campus. So it makes sense for Enterprise to want to move into less space that's more modern.

The Taylor family has also spent a ton of money in the city recently with the MLS team and the redevelopment of a large swath of Downtown West. So they have appeared at least more than willing to invest in the city.

I would be hopeful that the city could make a legit bid for Enterprise if they did publicly announce that they're searching for a new HQ. Especially with Cara Spencer probably becoming mayor, one of the objective facts about her is that the business sector likes her more and I'd be more hopeful that she would be able to lure a company like Enterprise than Jones.

Enterprise could potentially go in at BPV or the office portion of Millennium. So there are legit options for new, modern office space downtown for them. Add in tax incentives from Spencer, and I wouldn't dislike our odds there.

But this is all totally circumstantial, no actual evidence that Enterprise is looking to move- much less downtown.

If I had a nickel for every time the Opera Theatre of St. Louis staged a rarely performed Philip Glass opera, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice.

Jokes aside, I’m excited to see what they can build. The Webster University theater just isn’t the greatest spot to stage a full scale opera production.

This is the type of thing that should be in Forest Park. Right next to the Muny.

Auggie wrote: ↑

Mar 25, 2025

jshank83 wrote: ↑

Mar 25, 2025

TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote: ↑

Mar 24, 2025

Agree.  Everyone was up in arms of the school district taking this and it coming off the tax rolls.  
The only thing this does is make Enterprise's campus more valuable and maybe they move Downtown?  I hope that family is our saving grace.  We need the Downtown innovator, the first to say, yeah, lets do this thing. 

I keep seeing people float this notion of enterprise moving downtown, for what seems like years now, but has there ever been any inkling they have even considered it or is this all hopes and prayers? Didn’t they just buy a plot of land next to their current campus to expand their real estate there recently?

I’d be as happy as anyone for them to build a tower downtown and slap their name on it but I don’t know where it is coming from that they have put much thought in it.

I've personally never seen any concrete evidence that they'd move downtown specifically, but there is plenty of good reasons for them to make a HQ move.

We've seen lots of companies move away from large sprawling campuses in favor of the CBDs. Energizer, Emerson, Build a Bear, Larson, Caleres all moved from campuses in favor of CBD locations. So I wouldn't be shocked at all if Enterprise did as well.

Their current campus currently has hundreds of thousands of sf of space up for lease and their massive parking garages have lots of empty space when I ride by on the Metro during the middle of the day. So it's probably a safe bet that they have tons of excess space. I'm pretty sure BMO Bank also has offices on their campus. So it makes sense for Enterprise to want to move into less space that's more modern.

The Taylor family has also spent a ton of money in the city recently with the MLS team and the redevelopment of a large swath of Downtown West. So they have appeared at least more than willing to invest in the city.

I would be hopeful that the city could make a legit bid for Enterprise if they did publicly announce that they're searching for a new HQ. Especially with Cara Spencer probably becoming mayor, one of the objective facts about her is that the business sector likes her more and I'd be more hopeful that she would be able to lure a company like Enterprise than Jones.

Enterprise could potentially go in at BPV or the office portion of Millennium. So there are legit options for new, modern office space downtown for them. Add in tax incentives from Spencer, and I wouldn't dislike our odds there.

But this is all totally circumstantial, no actual evidence that Enterprise is looking to move- much less downtown.

Thanks. I thought that was the case, most of it based on the hope with the soccer team investment the company “could” follow, but wasn’t sure if I missed something.

I’m just not sure why they buy the land they bought recently if they are looking to move. I guess it makes it a bigger swath of land overall if they want to sell.

I’m in the I’ll believe it when I see it camp. Or I at least have to hear more than rumors they are looking to move before I start to consider it a real option.

But back to the topic. I’ll be curious to see the footprint of the opera thing. I kind of wish they would have just built the one at Centene instead.

LocalGovSTL wrote: ↑

Mar 25, 2025

If I had a nickel for every time the Opera Theatre of St. Louis staged a rarely performed Philip Glass opera, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice.

Jokes aside, I’m excited to see what they can build. The Webster University theater just isn’t the greatest spot to stage a full scale opera production.

I've both worked in the hall and attended shows there. Honestly, I like it. It's a bit on the smaller side, but they're staging the stuff in English and giving developing musicians a great place to start. If they really wanted to play with the big kids they'd probably have to move away from the whole "in English" thing and go to the original language to be taken seriously.

But in all seriousness, the Wagner pit works nicely. The stage is small, but they had good equipment the last time I was in there. (Which was a very long time ago, to be sure. But they have enough money I assume they've stayed up to date.) The shop's fine. Access is good. And when you're in the audience it feels like you're in the front row, even if you're in the cheapest seat in the house. And that's genuinely cool. That's just not something you can do with a traditional proscenium stage of the sort more or less required for a "big" production. By going a little lighter on sets and stage wizardry you get to be right in the thick of the action. Which is pretty much the point to a thrust stage like that. Maybe the hall needs an update, but it gives them an opportunity to do something that really sets them apart. If they were in a hall like the Touhill or Kiel I expect they'd be just another middling regional opera. You'd be a mile away from singers early in their career, who would be fighting harder to stay on top of an orchestra out in the open and it would show. That hall has always been one of their selling points, odd as it sounds. You really are about the same distance from the stage in the back row as you would be in the front row of about any other hall I've ever worked in.

I suppose this is good news, but it sure would have been nice to get them in Grand Center. 

Why not use the beautiful, recently renovated Opera house we already have?

Orpheum really needs a redevelopment. That would’ve been great. Continues to just be completely left out in abandoned building convos. Obviously something downtown or Grand Center would have been a way bigger up for the region. This will probably end up looking fine and downtown Clayton is still a somewhat beneficial site for the city. Another time though that I don’t see how the City of St. Louis doesn’t have some gusto to say “how do we make this work for you in the city? - whether downtown, grand center, forest park or anywhere else”. I mean offer up a spot in forest park, it would only add to its vibrancy and spot at the top of urban parks.

Fine, but these are the things that we need to have a little more “want to” about

delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑

Mar 26, 2025

Orpheum really needs a redevelopment. That would’ve been great. Continues to just be completely left out in abandoned building convos. Obviously something downtown or Grand Center would have been a way bigger up for the region. This will probably end up looking fine and downtown Clayton is still a somewhat beneficial site for the city. Another time though that I don’t see how the City of St. Louis doesn’t have some gusto to say “how do we make this work for you in the city? - whether downtown, grand center, forest park or anywhere else”. I mean offer up a spot in forest park, it would only add to its vibrancy and spot at the top of urban parks.

Fine, but these are the things that we need to have a little more “want to” about

This just adds to the meaningless competition though.

If they wanted to be in the city- where all the other respected theaters and concert halls are- they would be.

The Opera Theatre of St. Louis season lasts for a month. Honestly, the city wouldn't gain much of anything. It will be interesting to see how the theatre will be used outside of their season. I feel like we are pretty saturated already with theatre spaces.

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You have to assume they've been in talks with developers to partner with them on developing other portions of the site. The land is simply too big and too valuable for such a small theater group to go it alone.

This Theater group has a $105MM+ endowment. For reference, the Lyric’s endowment is ~$180MM.

They have plenty of money