Brown Shoe purchased back two adjacent buildings to their headquarters from Sarah Lee. The are working with HOK to determine the best use of the property. Could we see another new tower in Clayton?
I was wondering the same thing. If Brown uses its own resources, don't count on it.
I could be wrong, but Brown will not build a real tower (12+ stories). It would have to be some developer, with Brown committing to the project. Maybe Brown will build a low or mid-rise, which could be just as nice.
Hopefully they'll build a tower even if modest.
I could be wrong, but Brown will not build a real tower (12+ stories). It would have to be some developer, with Brown committing to the project. Maybe Brown will build a low or mid-rise, which could be just as nice.
Hopefully they'll build a tower even if modest.
- 11K
^ They have quite a bit of land there - especially if they build over the parking lots. They could add a couple hundred thousand sq ft without going more than 4 stories. Good stuff though - nice to have another healthy company in Clayton. Once Olive/I-170 and the 40 project are done, this will be an easy place to access - more jobs (assuming) is good news.
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Brown Shoe
Brown Shoe Co. Inc. is working with Hellmuth, Obata + Kassabaum on a design plan for the expansion of its Clayton headquarters.
In January, the company bought the two vacant buildings adjacent to its headquarters at 8300 Maryland for $11.5 million. The buildings, located at 8400 Maryland Ave. and 8500 Maryland Ave., previously housed the headquarters for Sara Lee's Bakery Group, which relocated to Downers Grove, Ill., last year.
The two buildings total 130,000 square feet of office space; Brown's current headquarters building is 223,574 square feet.
Brown executives said they are still evaluating their options regarding what to do with the acquired buildings. The company previously owned the two buildings and sold them in 1994.
Centene Plaza
Centene Corp.'s plans for a new $210 million headquarters in Clayton have been put on hold following a June 12 Missouri Supreme Court ruling.
The court ruled that the redevelopment area between Forsyth Boulevard and Carondelet Avenue, where Centene planned to build its new facility, is not blighted.
Clayton's Board of Aldermen earlier had determined that the area was blighted, which would have allowed Centene to use eminent domain to acquire the properties in the redevelopment area.
The managed-care provider had planned to build a 700,000-square-foot development that would include its headquarters as well as mixed-use space for additional office and retail tenants. Centene's headquarters currently is located in a building it owns at 7711 Carondelet Ave.
At the time of the ruling, a Centene spokesman said the company is "exploring all its options" and still plans to expand its operations.
http://stlouis.bizjournals.com/stlouis/ ... tml?page=3
According to the Business Journal, Brown Shoe is now adding other areas in St. Louis to it's possible corporate expansion sites, as well as out of state cities including Madison, WI and Dallas, TX.
The article seemed to state that the properties acquired adjacent to their current headquarters were most likely, but other sites also included the former Centene HQ site in Clayton. Additionally, the group put together to help find a suitable location has ties to the Ballpark Village development. If I remember correctly, Centene Corp's president is also on the Brown Shoe board, which would seem to put Centene's expansion buildings downtown on the radar as well.
The article seemed to state that the properties acquired adjacent to their current headquarters were most likely, but other sites also included the former Centene HQ site in Clayton. Additionally, the group put together to help find a suitable location has ties to the Ballpark Village development. If I remember correctly, Centene Corp's president is also on the Brown Shoe board, which would seem to put Centene's expansion buildings downtown on the radar as well.
Read: Thank you very much, Clayton and St. Louis. You screwed up royally with the Centene debacle, so now we (Brown) can extort all kinds of incentives as well.
<a href="http://stlouis.bizjournals.com/stlouis/ ... 74">Here's the article</a>.
I'm wondering if this isn't a result of the incentives Centene is getting.
I'm wondering if this isn't a result of the incentives Centene is getting.
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^ I think you're seeing causation where none necessarily exists. I don't see anything extraordinary about Brown Shoe considering its options. Do we expect that all St. Louis companies will happily sit still? If they don't we will forever blame Centene, Clayton and tax incentives?
Grover wrote:^ I think you're seeing causation where none necessarily exists. I don't see anything extraordinary about Brown Shoe considering its options. Do we expect that all St. Louis companies will happily sit still? If they don't we will forever blame Centene, Clayton and tax incentives?
Why would Brown have bought the adjacent buildings if they hadn't (before the Centene debacle) previously planned to "happily sit still"?
Surprise!! I agree with bonwich's last comment. Hell has frozen over. 
When I read that story, I had the exact same thoughts. Nonetheless, that is how it works. Brown is smart by getting the same exact team Centene acquired to get all of the incentives. And yes, I do believe other companies now will be lining up to get these incentives.
Regardless, major companies like Brown need to be downtown. Personally, I hope Brown moves to city and the city offers another big incentive package. The residual impact can be beneficial to the city and region. However, I don't know if the city will do it with Brown considering it just snagged Centene.
Maybe Clayton will step up to the plate with the help of St. Louis County. But it would be nice if Brown and U.S. Equities of Chicago built downtown. There are plenty of lots to build on.
In regards to Brown's move, and I don't want to underestimate them, but Madison, Wis. would not be a viable option for them. The airport is not well-connected like Lambert or DFW.
Dallas could be a player considering that it is home to major retail players like Neiman, JCPenney etc. Plus, Texas is known to offer big incentive packages. However, I agree that Brown announced plans to build in Clayton PRIOR to Centene's announcement and incentives.
Brown is trying to get the same deal or close to it. And you can't blame them.
When I read that story, I had the exact same thoughts. Nonetheless, that is how it works. Brown is smart by getting the same exact team Centene acquired to get all of the incentives. And yes, I do believe other companies now will be lining up to get these incentives.
Regardless, major companies like Brown need to be downtown. Personally, I hope Brown moves to city and the city offers another big incentive package. The residual impact can be beneficial to the city and region. However, I don't know if the city will do it with Brown considering it just snagged Centene.
Maybe Clayton will step up to the plate with the help of St. Louis County. But it would be nice if Brown and U.S. Equities of Chicago built downtown. There are plenty of lots to build on.
In regards to Brown's move, and I don't want to underestimate them, but Madison, Wis. would not be a viable option for them. The airport is not well-connected like Lambert or DFW.
Dallas could be a player considering that it is home to major retail players like Neiman, JCPenney etc. Plus, Texas is known to offer big incentive packages. However, I agree that Brown announced plans to build in Clayton PRIOR to Centene's announcement and incentives.
Brown is trying to get the same deal or close to it. And you can't blame them.
- 11K
bonwich wrote:Grover wrote:^ I think you're seeing causation where none necessarily exists. I don't see anything extraordinary about Brown Shoe considering its options. Do we expect that all St. Louis companies will happily sit still? If they don't we will forever blame Centene, Clayton and tax incentives?
Why would Brown have bought the adjacent buildings if they hadn't (before the Centene debacle) previously planned to "happily sit still"?
Because they're a business - and they're smart to have options. For a relatively small investment they can now stay and build or move.
Grover wrote:bonwich wrote:Grover wrote:^ I think you're seeing causation where none necessarily exists. I don't see anything extraordinary about Brown Shoe considering its options. Do we expect that all St. Louis companies will happily sit still? If they don't we will forever blame Centene, Clayton and tax incentives?
Why would Brown have bought the adjacent buildings if they hadn't (before the Centene debacle) previously planned to "happily sit still"?
Because they're a business - and they're smart to have options. For a relatively small investment they can now stay and build or move.
Doesn't wash. They're a shoe business. Good businesses don't buy real estate "just in case."
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So you're saying that Brown Shoe Co. was blind to possible tax incentives to move until the Centene announcement was made? I just think they're smarter than that. Besides, behind this discussion seems to be the idea that Centene/Clayton and St. Louis City really skrewed something up. I don't see it that way. Clayton missed out on adding jobs, St. Louis City gained its largest employer in a long time and find a tenant for the BPV development. If the city doesn't want to do it again all it has to say is "no".
Grover wrote:So you're saying that Brown Shoe Co. was blind to possible tax incentives to move until the Centene announcement was made? I just think they're smarter than that. Besides, behind this discussion seems to be the idea that Centene/Clayton and St. Louis City really skrewed something up. I don't see it that way. Clayton missed out on adding jobs, St. Louis City gained its largest employer in a long time and find a tenant for the BPV development. If the city doesn't want to do it again all it has to say is "no".
Not blind. They just didn't think in a million years that the most affluent office district in the metropolitan area would resort to freebies to keep a company that had a huge existing presence and capital investment. (And that ignores the main point, which is that good corporations generally don't speculate in real estate, which is what Brown would have been doing had they simply bought the adjoining property "to keep its options open.")
And yes, regionally, Clayton screwed up on a monumental scale. Had it not blown the whole eminent-domain argument and simply negotiated the property sale that it (apparently) negotiated 11th hour, Centene would have stayed in Clayton. The best possible outcome would have been for Cordish and the city to draw something that wouldn't have gone into BPV in the first place. As it is, the supposed "marquee location" of BPV needed not just the massive subsidy that went into building the new stadium and building BPV, but also further subsidy to convince an existing St. Louis company to stay in St. Louis. (Clayton is in St. Louis, to all except the most rabid urbanophiles.)
bonwich wrote:Grover wrote:Clayton is in St. Louis, to all except the most rabid urbanophiles.)
I agree with this statement 110%
1. I feel pretty confident that Brown will stay in the region so long as MO and the City/ County step up with incentives. Unfortunate, but not at all surprising, that the Centene deal would foster a waive of companies looking for similar deals. We should all just be happy the Centene deal didn't go down before the whole Ed Jones debacle in Des Peres and the recent AG Edwards merger. Gotta believe that Clayton will be working hard to avoid the blow of a second HQ loss in such a short time frame.
2. The only reason I worry, is that Texas and Wisconsin are formidable competitors. Texas brings lots of incentives to the game. Wisconsin brings a well educated (better than Missouri) work force, Madison is a vibrant amazing city, and despite its high tax nature, Wisconsin is a great place to do business because those high taxes mean higher quality public infrastructure and sevices. Never discount the Ed Whitacre factors, given that Ronald Fromm has Madison ties. It didn't seem to make much of a difference back in 1992 when SBC rolled out of St. Louis for San Antonio that St. Louis had hub status for TWA. I think the airport connection issue is overblown and should not be a reason to discount Madison's chances. To me, they are the strongest competitor.
3. If you are the City of St. Louis and just dropped a load to get Centene into downtown, why not step it up and offer a dollar for dollar matching deal to Brown? If you are the City, you have already landed your big fish. Step up and make an offer. A new 30 story Brown office building funded by the City would look great at Broadway and Spruce.
2. The only reason I worry, is that Texas and Wisconsin are formidable competitors. Texas brings lots of incentives to the game. Wisconsin brings a well educated (better than Missouri) work force, Madison is a vibrant amazing city, and despite its high tax nature, Wisconsin is a great place to do business because those high taxes mean higher quality public infrastructure and sevices. Never discount the Ed Whitacre factors, given that Ronald Fromm has Madison ties. It didn't seem to make much of a difference back in 1992 when SBC rolled out of St. Louis for San Antonio that St. Louis had hub status for TWA. I think the airport connection issue is overblown and should not be a reason to discount Madison's chances. To me, they are the strongest competitor.
3. If you are the City of St. Louis and just dropped a load to get Centene into downtown, why not step it up and offer a dollar for dollar matching deal to Brown? If you are the City, you have already landed your big fish. Step up and make an offer. A new 30 story Brown office building funded by the City would look great at Broadway and Spruce.
Brown is bluffing. Furthermore, while anything could happen, I don't believe Madison, Wisconsin is a viable candidate. Fromm has been in St. Louis since about 2000. The man is like 57 now. If he was going to move to Madison, I think he would have done it by now. That could only change if he gets pissed off over the incentive package offered. The region will not drop the ball with this historic St. Louis firm.
Granted Famous Footwear, Brown's largest division, is headquartered there, Madison does not have the retail prowess of St. Louis or Dallas. Major retail companies and suppliers tend to cluster near other major retailers and suppliers - Columbus, Ohio, Chicago, Dallas/Ft. Worth, New York, St. Louis, Minneapolis just to name a few. Madison is not a major retail player. Milwaukee (Kohl's) is more of a retail player than Madison. Furthermore, St. Louis could still be considered America's shoe capital. Tons of shoe companies and manufacturers here. Brown Shoe leaving would be like Wachovia Securities choosing Richmond over St. Louis' brokerage prowess.
Although Madison and Wisconsin could offer some outrageous incentives to lure Brown, as it has been said, Brown has already invested in property in Clayton. The only way Brown leaves is if it doesn't get a Centene-like (or near Centene-like) incentive package for its project. Keep in mind too that Centene Corporation moved from Milwaukee (Wisconsin) to St. Louis/Clayton. What matters to companies is the local workforce and its experience in their particular sector. St. Louis has always been strong in the health care industry, which made is easier for Centene to move to St. Louis. With that said, St. Louis and shoes go together like hand and glove.
Nonetheless, if Brown doesn't promise an increase in jobs, it doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell at the same level of incentives.
A sampling of St. Louis shoe-related companies
Footwear Chains
Baker Footwear Group
Bakers
Wild Pair
Sam & Libby
Hot Line
Brown Shoe Company
Famous Footwear
Naturalizer
Supermarket of Shoes
Warehouse of Shoes
Factory Brand Shoes
Wolff Brand Shoes
Marmi
Footwear Manufacturers
Brown Shoe Company (Famous Footwear and Naturalizer stores, Dr. Scholl’s, Buster Brown, Connie, LifeStride)
Wolff Shoe Company (Italian brands such as Rangoni of Florence, Van Eli, Sesto Meucci, owns 16 upscale Marmi shoe stores)
Elan-Polo Inc. (owns The Daniel Green Co. and L.B. Evans slippers for women. Designs, manufactures and imports shoes for various retailers, including Kmart, Target, Payless, Wal-Mart, Family Dollar and Dollar General.)
Daniel Green Enterprises L.L.C
Riddell Footwear (The Centric Group)
Mark Lemp Footwear (Walking Cradle Shoes)
Belleville Shoe Company (Gore-Tex Footwear) Oldest/largest military shoe company
The John Meier Shoe Company (Red Wing)
Footwear Unlimited Incorporated
The Warson Group
M. K. Weil Shoe Company
Darling Baby Shoe Company
The Hoy Shoe Company
There are countless others.
Also, I think the City of St. Louis might be apprehensive about offering a big incentive package to Brown unless Brown can guarantee more jobs and not simply the ones at their current headquarters. Centene promised to create jobs. So far, I have not heard that Brown is going to be creating additional jobs. If Brown is just looking to build a new HQ, but not create additional jobs, they don't deserve an incentive package. The city, county and state should be getting something in return – not just a big, new shiny building.
Granted Famous Footwear, Brown's largest division, is headquartered there, Madison does not have the retail prowess of St. Louis or Dallas. Major retail companies and suppliers tend to cluster near other major retailers and suppliers - Columbus, Ohio, Chicago, Dallas/Ft. Worth, New York, St. Louis, Minneapolis just to name a few. Madison is not a major retail player. Milwaukee (Kohl's) is more of a retail player than Madison. Furthermore, St. Louis could still be considered America's shoe capital. Tons of shoe companies and manufacturers here. Brown Shoe leaving would be like Wachovia Securities choosing Richmond over St. Louis' brokerage prowess.
Although Madison and Wisconsin could offer some outrageous incentives to lure Brown, as it has been said, Brown has already invested in property in Clayton. The only way Brown leaves is if it doesn't get a Centene-like (or near Centene-like) incentive package for its project. Keep in mind too that Centene Corporation moved from Milwaukee (Wisconsin) to St. Louis/Clayton. What matters to companies is the local workforce and its experience in their particular sector. St. Louis has always been strong in the health care industry, which made is easier for Centene to move to St. Louis. With that said, St. Louis and shoes go together like hand and glove.
Nonetheless, if Brown doesn't promise an increase in jobs, it doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell at the same level of incentives.
A sampling of St. Louis shoe-related companies
Footwear Chains
Baker Footwear Group
Bakers
Wild Pair
Sam & Libby
Hot Line
Brown Shoe Company
Famous Footwear
Naturalizer
Supermarket of Shoes
Warehouse of Shoes
Factory Brand Shoes
Wolff Brand Shoes
Marmi
Footwear Manufacturers
Brown Shoe Company (Famous Footwear and Naturalizer stores, Dr. Scholl’s, Buster Brown, Connie, LifeStride)
Wolff Shoe Company (Italian brands such as Rangoni of Florence, Van Eli, Sesto Meucci, owns 16 upscale Marmi shoe stores)
Elan-Polo Inc. (owns The Daniel Green Co. and L.B. Evans slippers for women. Designs, manufactures and imports shoes for various retailers, including Kmart, Target, Payless, Wal-Mart, Family Dollar and Dollar General.)
Daniel Green Enterprises L.L.C
Riddell Footwear (The Centric Group)
Mark Lemp Footwear (Walking Cradle Shoes)
Belleville Shoe Company (Gore-Tex Footwear) Oldest/largest military shoe company
The John Meier Shoe Company (Red Wing)
Footwear Unlimited Incorporated
The Warson Group
M. K. Weil Shoe Company
Darling Baby Shoe Company
The Hoy Shoe Company
There are countless others.
Also, I think the City of St. Louis might be apprehensive about offering a big incentive package to Brown unless Brown can guarantee more jobs and not simply the ones at their current headquarters. Centene promised to create jobs. So far, I have not heard that Brown is going to be creating additional jobs. If Brown is just looking to build a new HQ, but not create additional jobs, they don't deserve an incentive package. The city, county and state should be getting something in return – not just a big, new shiny building.
^Thanks, you made me read Arch City's entire post just to figure out what you were talking about. 
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Also, I think the City of St. Louis might be apprehensive about offering a big incentive package to Brown unless Brown can guarantee more jobs and not simply the ones at their current headquarters. Centene promised to create jobs. So far, I have not heard that Brown is going to be creating additional jobs. If Brown is just looking to build a new HQ, but not create additional jobs, they don't deserve an incentive package. The city, county and state should be getting something in return – not just a big, new shiny building.
I absolutely agree that something *more* should be brought to the table in order to get as large of an amount of TIF as Centene, but there are MANY intangibles that are associated with having "big, new shiny buildings" in downtown. Don't underestimate the impact that these can have.
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TB1000 wrote:I have heard that many in Clayton think Brown is going to bolt.
WHY?i heard that things have been very quiet regarding brown shoe, which is part of the reason why a lot of people think they are going to bolt. if they do bolt, i hope it is for downtown.
^The St. Louis Business Journal just reported on this most recent development on 10/05/07. I doubt if a decision has been made by Brown and I am sure there are behind-the-scenes negotiations happening. Sometimes, "quiet" means business is being handled.
While anything could happen - a move to Dallas or Madison - I doubt Brown would have hired HOK (a St. Louis-based architectural firm) and U.S. Equities of Chicago (a firm that seems to be planting roots in St. Louis) to help in their new HQs endeavor if they really planned to bolt.
Outside of the fiasco and near miss between Des Peres and Edward Jones, I think St. Louis and Missouri have grown more sophisticated when it comes to maintaining and landing corporations/businesses. Theres' a pro-business county executive and governor. There's a pro-business St. Louis City administration. I really don't believe local business and civic leaders would let Brown leave without a fight.
While anything could happen - a move to Dallas or Madison - I doubt Brown would have hired HOK (a St. Louis-based architectural firm) and U.S. Equities of Chicago (a firm that seems to be planting roots in St. Louis) to help in their new HQs endeavor if they really planned to bolt.
Outside of the fiasco and near miss between Des Peres and Edward Jones, I think St. Louis and Missouri have grown more sophisticated when it comes to maintaining and landing corporations/businesses. Theres' a pro-business county executive and governor. There's a pro-business St. Louis City administration. I really don't believe local business and civic leaders would let Brown leave without a fight.