^It had the contractor fencing and signage up... I drive by it almost every other day, I didn't see the fencing up until this week? Also there were some guys there yesterday morning too.
Because it removes exclusivity.symphonicpoet wrote: ↑Jul 11, 2023^I'm not sure why opening new locations is a dilution of the brand. Feels like honest growth to me, and I'm altogether in favor of seeing St. Louis brewers growing.
If I want the brewery experience, I go to the brewery. Distribution is already 'honest growth' because it puts it in homes, in my opinion.
Now, if you live in Kirkwood, roughly 15-20 minutes from Downtown, why even bother with it. Dually, with Chesterfield.
Great on the expansion at the flagship location, but it's no longer 'flagship' if you have a location 5 minutes from your house in Chesterfield. It's just 'the location that's far away'.
I get expansion for 'sales growth', but I also don't like how it dilutes the brand. It just feels like expansion to grab a portion of the population that's too lazy or culturally apathetic to drive to an area of the region that should be the focus of creative gusto. I know most people aren't going to agree with me either, and it probably makes sound business sense to most. I would just prefer having as many homegrown gems, where they grew, and not appease a population that has decided to spread so far out from the center of the region. Why bother spending your dollars in Downtown (or Lasalle Park, whatever you want to call it) when you can skip down to the 'The District'.
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The current craft beer marketplace is completely over-saturated. Beer consumption is continuing to shrink. Expanding distribution is no longer the path to growth that it used to be. You can only grow so big in your home market, and now that other markets have their own mature craft beer scenes, they care about out of market beer even less. Opening these new fancy taprooms is how these breweries can continue to grow revenue at home without relying solely on distribution.
I would argue that breweries are much more resistant to brand dilution than other businesses like restaurants and coffee shops. With breweries, the beer will taste the same in Chesterfield as it will in LaSalle Park. It's still largely brewed by the same people in the same place (outside of some small experimental tanks they might have on site)
Compare this to restaurants where expansion absolutely dilutes the brand. Remember a decade ago when Mission Taco and Salt and Smoke were all the rage? When you are actually making the product on site, you rely on having the cooks/baristas/management to have a consistent baseline of talent/giving a sh+t. Much more difficult to maintain as you get more locations. With a taproom? Just get your shipments in, plug in the kegs, offer some food, or better yet find a food partner to do it for you.
I would argue that breweries are much more resistant to brand dilution than other businesses like restaurants and coffee shops. With breweries, the beer will taste the same in Chesterfield as it will in LaSalle Park. It's still largely brewed by the same people in the same place (outside of some small experimental tanks they might have on site)
Compare this to restaurants where expansion absolutely dilutes the brand. Remember a decade ago when Mission Taco and Salt and Smoke were all the rage? When you are actually making the product on site, you rely on having the cooks/baristas/management to have a consistent baseline of talent/giving a sh+t. Much more difficult to maintain as you get more locations. With a taproom? Just get your shipments in, plug in the kegs, offer some food, or better yet find a food partner to do it for you.
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4Hands HQ brewpub is running 10%+ year to year, same for Civil Life but everyone is seeing a same decline for in store purchases as more people get groceries delivered and beer is a bit of a impulse buy
For what it's worth I mostly agree with this assessment. If it's a choice between more locations or having an unsustainable business then obviously I'd rather keep them brewing, but of course I can't see their books. That said of all the local breweries that have opened satellite locations, I think the original is still the best (I'm thinking specifically of Schlafly and Urban Chestnut).bwcrow1s wrote: ↑Jul 18, 2023Because it removes exclusivity.symphonicpoet wrote: ↑Jul 11, 2023^I'm not sure why opening new locations is a dilution of the brand. Feels like honest growth to me, and I'm altogether in favor of seeing St. Louis brewers growing.
If I want the brewery experience, I go to the brewery. Distribution is already 'honest growth' because it puts it in homes, in my opinion.
Now, if you live in Kirkwood, roughly 15-20 minutes from Downtown, why even bother with it. Dually, with Chesterfield.
Great on the expansion at the flagship location, but it's no longer 'flagship' if you have a location 5 minutes from your house in Chesterfield. It's just 'the location that's far away'.
I get expansion for 'sales growth', but I also don't like how it dilutes the brand. It just feels like expansion to grab a portion of the population that's too lazy or culturally apathetic to drive to an area of the region that should be the focus of creative gusto. I know most people aren't going to agree with me either, and it probably makes sound business sense to most. I would just prefer having as many homegrown gems, where they grew, and not appease a population that has decided to spread so far out from the center of the region. Why bother spending your dollars in Downtown (or Lasalle Park, whatever you want to call it) when you can skip down to the 'The District'.
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Is this just an opinion or is their any research to indicate it’s correct?
Craft beer is still less than a quarter of the US beer market. Seems like there’s a lot more market share to steal from the big guys. Especially if more craft brewers get into lagering beers.
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I've worked in beer sales for my entire career. The 2010s were kind of a craft beer revolution, that was when the majority of people learned they could drink better than the macros. Crazy growth of craft beer + cheap money created a ton of new breweries.
This was especially prevalent in STL because before AB was acquired, it held a ridiculously high market share in the region. A ton of very well-paid marketers from AB and the agencies that supported it were laid off and started many of the bigger local breweries of today. Just read back in this thread a bit, for a while there it seemed like a new brewery was opening every month. While great for the local beer scene, each new brewery is a new competitor for shelf space, tap handles, and the customers dollar.
Fast forward to today, and beer sales as a category are stagnant or beginning to decline. People are switching to things like seltzers, canned cocktails, and non-alcoholic products. Marijuana is also eating into sales where it's legal. In Minnesota it is legal to sell THC Seltzers over the counter anywhere, including liquor stores. Beer managers are reporting to me that since legalization, THC drinks have been exploding but almost entirely at the expense of beer sales.
Locally, more established craft breweries are struggling to keep their market share. Schlafly for example sells a fraction of the beer it used to through distribution. Even highly respected breweries with excellent product like Urban Chestnut are pulling back national distribution because it is so crowded out there. Breweries that overleveraged themselves are going to begin failing over the next few years. O'Fallon was at one point a big player in the industry and look what happened to them.
It's going to be tough moving forward but, in the end, it will prove beneficial to the industry as a whole. Breweries will do more to differentiate themselves from each other. They will need to work harder to connect with their immediate communities and neighborhoods. The days of shi++ing out a new IPA every month and selling 10 case stacks are over, breweries need to do more to survive.
Say what you will about a taproom in Chesterfield, but it will 100% become a community hub of sorts in an area that is starved for them. Taprooms are safe, cheap to operate, and give very high margins.
This was especially prevalent in STL because before AB was acquired, it held a ridiculously high market share in the region. A ton of very well-paid marketers from AB and the agencies that supported it were laid off and started many of the bigger local breweries of today. Just read back in this thread a bit, for a while there it seemed like a new brewery was opening every month. While great for the local beer scene, each new brewery is a new competitor for shelf space, tap handles, and the customers dollar.
Fast forward to today, and beer sales as a category are stagnant or beginning to decline. People are switching to things like seltzers, canned cocktails, and non-alcoholic products. Marijuana is also eating into sales where it's legal. In Minnesota it is legal to sell THC Seltzers over the counter anywhere, including liquor stores. Beer managers are reporting to me that since legalization, THC drinks have been exploding but almost entirely at the expense of beer sales.
Locally, more established craft breweries are struggling to keep their market share. Schlafly for example sells a fraction of the beer it used to through distribution. Even highly respected breweries with excellent product like Urban Chestnut are pulling back national distribution because it is so crowded out there. Breweries that overleveraged themselves are going to begin failing over the next few years. O'Fallon was at one point a big player in the industry and look what happened to them.
It's going to be tough moving forward but, in the end, it will prove beneficial to the industry as a whole. Breweries will do more to differentiate themselves from each other. They will need to work harder to connect with their immediate communities and neighborhoods. The days of shi++ing out a new IPA every month and selling 10 case stacks are over, breweries need to do more to survive.
Say what you will about a taproom in Chesterfield, but it will 100% become a community hub of sorts in an area that is starved for them. Taprooms are safe, cheap to operate, and give very high margins.
In terms of data: This is a good read
That is a lot of new competition, not to mention a large proportion of these breweries with a focus on distribution have investors that were promised fast and exponential growth. Only so much pie to go around.Twenty years ago, there were 1,485 breweries operating in the United States, according to the Brewers Association. In 2013 there were 3,162. Last year, there were 9,709—but market share for regional beers dropped.
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Thanks! We don’t have many IPA shi++ing breweries around here thank god. I’m not sure there’s a craft beer scene anywhere in the country that does lagers like we do. But I’m biased.
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On that note I am excited to visit the Little Lager when that opens on South Hampton. Very cool little concept
This does all make sense, again from a business perspective. I appreciate your insight, also. All very good points. I think it still dilutes the brand experience, and regional exclusivity, even the hypothetical brewery trail. Even when Perennial started expanding into Webster Groves. I went a few weeks ago to the Patch brewery and it was like 1/4 full on a Saturday evening in sunny 80° weather. Anecdotal for sure, but are these satellite locations cannibalizing flagship locations? Why would someone who lives in Webster not choose to go to Perennial on Lockwood over driving to a decidedly dicier neighborhood for the original experience? These are neighborhood cornerstones and hubs for stabilization as well.GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑Jul 18, 2023
Say what you will about a taproom in Chesterfield, but it will 100% become a community hub of sorts in an area that is starved for them. Taprooms are safe, cheap to operate, and give very high margins.
It's just a vanity connection to the brand. I'm sure it's profitable, but also comes off as inauthentic. End of the day my opinion really doesn't matter.
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I think there is still a lot of room for more "experience" based breweries like Little Lager... We have a nice full block of mid-sized breweries for sure... I think it wouldn't put a dent in the beer scene to have some 'tiny-bar-esque' style breweries with small fair, short hours, and good locations.GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑Jul 18, 2023On that note I am excited to visit the Little Lager when that opens on South Hampton. Very cool little concept
The market to compete with would be restaurants/bars and not so much breweries with distribution goals.
I went to a place in San Fran ages ago called Woods Cervecería that did Mexican Lagers and Empenadas and it was a blast... but mostly because the experience was so original and niche.
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I'd like more small experiences like that in St. Louis in general, though I do wholeheartedly believe they'd be a home run with beer.
It's not beer, but that image kind of reminds me of Brew Tulum Specialty Coffee on Delmar. Love that place.
It's not beer, but that image kind of reminds me of Brew Tulum Specialty Coffee on Delmar. Love that place.
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^agreed. And Brew Tulum looks awesome, I hadn't heard about that one - on my list now!
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Went to Brew Tulum for breakfast a couple weeks ago and had a wonderful meal and coffee. Will be back for sure.
I don't mind the breweries creating a couple of other locations but at some point it becomes a chain restaurant experience. Those have their place too and it just depends on what the companies want to do. There is room for both.
Does Urban Chestnut have any new plans? Do the owners still live in the US or did they move back to Germany?
Does Urban Chestnut have any new plans? Do the owners still live in the US or did they move back to Germany?
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"Small experience breweries" sounds basically like English pubs to me. And I'm in favor of more. (Even if they serve more German themed beers. But honestly, more good ales and bitters that aren't IPAs would be welcome.)
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^when I mean experience I really mean authentic... Some sort of brewery/bar that has an interesting/new take on beer/food. Think Scratch Brewery, Tiny Bar, Thaxton, etc.
I am guessing the vast majority of the people that go to Perennial in WG never, ever went to the original location.bwcrow1s wrote: ↑Jul 19, 2023This does all make sense, again from a business perspective. I appreciate your insight, also. All very good points. I think it still dilutes the brand experience, and regional exclusivity, even the hypothetical brewery trail. Even when Perennial started expanding into Webster Groves. I went a few weeks ago to the Patch brewery and it was like 1/4 full on a Saturday evening in sunny 80° weather. Anecdotal for sure, but are these satellite locations cannibalizing flagship locations? Why would someone who lives in Webster not choose to go to Perennial on Lockwood over driving to a decidedly dicier neighborhood for the original experience? These are neighborhood cornerstones and hubs for stabilization as well.GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑Jul 18, 2023
Say what you will about a taproom in Chesterfield, but it will 100% become a community hub of sorts in an area that is starved for them. Taprooms are safe, cheap to operate, and give very high margins.
It's just a vanity connection to the brand. I'm sure it's profitable, but also comes off as inauthentic. End of the day my opinion really doesn't matter.
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I had the day off last Friday and hit up the Michigan Ave Perennial about 4 PM. They were pretty busy both inside and outside. It helped that the day was one of the cooler ones in the past few weeks but the bar inside was pretty much full.
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They do a good business at Patch location. Don’t think they would have made so many TI’s if they didn’t.
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Seems like the move to Oakland Ave has done well for Modern Brewing.
Yeah, def put them on the map. I've been wondering about their patio. Has it finally opened? It the highway noise unbearable?
Fully open. That must have been a $500k patio. Highway noise, not great, but a very nice addition.quincunx wrote: ↑Dec 04, 2023Yeah, def put them on the map. I've been wondering about their patio. Has it finally opened? It the highway noise unbearable?
Food menu is impressive from King's Oak. At times, vastly outshines the beer outside of Citropolis.