I would love to see some photos if someone gets a chance. Biking on Forsyth between Forest Park & Clayton isn't that bad, I've done is 4 or 5 times. Extending this route is exciting.
Good they got them drawn in. Traffic was a mess before the lines went in because they were still treating it like 2 lanes but things weren’t wide enough.
^ Traffic was a mess before they painted the lines because the temporary reflective markers changed block to block. Especially after Meramec.
Definitely one of the worst repaving jobs I’ve seen (in terms of traffic control), but the finished product is quite nice.
One thing I noticed in this project is that Clayton’s brick crosswalks are legit brick crosswalks. I originally thought it was just a stamped brick pattern before…that is not the case.
Definitely one of the worst repaving jobs I’ve seen (in terms of traffic control), but the finished product is quite nice.
One thing I noticed in this project is that Clayton’s brick crosswalks are legit brick crosswalks. I originally thought it was just a stamped brick pattern before…that is not the case.
Just checked Nextdoor (I know, why?) and it’s full of people complaining about the new bike lanes saying that it’s making the street UNSAFE and will cause TRAFFIC… It’s such a mess of a post and anyone who presents facts that it will actually make the street safer for everyone just gets snarky and rude replies. Ahh Clayton…
I live in Clayton and use Maryland all the time. There’s no more traffic than usual. It’s still three lanes east of Central and four west of Forsyth.
Sounds like your typical Nextdoor b*tching more than anything. Give it another month or so and they’ll find something else to chase with their pitchforks.
Sounds like your typical Nextdoor b*tching more than anything. Give it another month or so and they’ll find something else to chase with their pitchforks.
Oh I agree. I live and grew up in UCity right on the border of Clayton, and I’ve never seen much traffic on that street. It’s 100% the normal complaining. Hopefully they’ll learn to live with it rather than trying to redo it again.
I still don’t know why they didn’t extend the bike lanes to the greenway.
High-rises are booming in Clayton, but will downtown lose its charm?
https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... the-latest
https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... the-latest
A number of people quoted say Clayton has a "small-town" feel that they fear losing, I cannot understand that term. How can one of the primary business and political hubs of a region populated by nearly 3 million people possibly be considered "small-town" in feeling or any other way? I can't imagine "small-town" as one of the feelings I get walking around Clayton, but maybe I just don't get what people are trying to describe when using the term.sc4mayor wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2022High-rises are booming in Clayton, but will downtown lose its charm?
https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... the-latest
I understand what they mean. The small old commercial buildings that are slowly being demolished and replaced with things like Bemiston Place, Forsyth Point, Residence Inn, AC Hotel, 50 Bemiston and World Newe Site. These are all sites where smaller commercial buildings once stood/still stand. The last few years have seen an uptick in proposals to do away with those small buildings. So in terms of it feeling small town, I think that’s what they mean._nomad_ wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2022A number of people quoted say Clayton has a "small-town" feel that they fear losing, I cannot understand that term. How can one of the primary business and political hubs of a region populated by nearly 3 million people possibly be considered "small-town" in feeling or any other way? I can't imagine "small-town" as one of the feelings I get walking around Clayton, but maybe I just don't get what people are trying to describe when using the term.sc4mayor wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2022High-rises are booming in Clayton, but will downtown lose its charm?
https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... the-latest
Yeah, agreed. Also, Jane Jacobs had a theory about how older buildings tend to house independent businesses due to lower rents while new buildings have chains. Obviously there are exceptions but I think the theory is overall right, and I think it's unlikely that the businesses that are being torn down would locate in the new high rises' retail spaces.chriss752 wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2022I understand what they mean. The small old commercial buildings that are slowly being demolished and replaced with things like Bemiston Place, Forsyth Point, Residence Inn, AC Hotel, 50 Bemiston and World Newe Site. These are all sites where smaller commercial buildings once stood/still stand. The last few years have seen an uptick in proposals to do away with those small buildings. So in terms of it feeling small town, I think that’s what they mean._nomad_ wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2022A number of people quoted say Clayton has a "small-town" feel that they fear losing, I cannot understand that term. How can one of the primary business and political hubs of a region populated by nearly 3 million people possibly be considered "small-town" in feeling or any other way? I can't imagine "small-town" as one of the feelings I get walking around Clayton, but maybe I just don't get what people are trying to describe when using the term.sc4mayor wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2022High-rises are booming in Clayton, but will downtown lose its charm?
https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... the-latest
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If Clayton wanted to remain a small town, they and the county should have merged with the city a few decades back.
Forget 'em.
Forget 'em.
That likely would’ve changed nothing. I’d bet Clayton would still be a larger business district today even under merger way back in the day.RockChalkSTL wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2022If Clayton wanted to remain a small town, they and the county should have merged with the city a few decades back.
Forget 'em.
I guess that makes sense, I wouldn't think to use the term "small-town feel" to describe older building stock, to me it carries a broader social, environmental, and lifestyle connotation (emphasis on the "to me" part of this, I in no way claim to be the arbiter of what the term should mean and may not even be using it correctly myself). I can get behind preserving smaller/older buildings and the businesses they house, though like everything there is a balance between preservation and growth.PeterXCV wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2022Yeah, agreed. Also, Jane Jacobs had a theory about how older buildings tend to house independent businesses due to lower rents while new buildings have chains. Obviously there are exceptions but I think the theory is overall right, and I think it's unlikely that the businesses that are being torn down would locate in the new high rises' retail spaces.chriss752 wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2022I understand what they mean. The small old commercial buildings that are slowly being demolished and replaced with things like Bemiston Place, Forsyth Point, Residence Inn, AC Hotel, 50 Bemiston and World Newe Site. These are all sites where smaller commercial buildings once stood/still stand. The last few years have seen an uptick in proposals to do away with those small buildings. So in terms of it feeling small town, I think that’s what they mean._nomad_ wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2022A number of people quoted say Clayton has a "small-town" feel that they fear losing, I cannot understand that term. How can one of the primary business and political hubs of a region populated by nearly 3 million people possibly be considered "small-town" in feeling or any other way? I can't imagine "small-town" as one of the feelings I get walking around Clayton, but maybe I just don't get what people are trying to describe when using the term.
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I don't see how it wouldn't have changed things. Clayton would have still grown, but it probably wouldn't be the county seat and the fictional lines that divide us would be no more.chriss752 wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2022That likely would’ve changed nothing. I’d bet Clayton would still be a larger business district today even under merger way back in the day.RockChalkSTL wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2022If Clayton wanted to remain a small town, they and the county should have merged with the city a few decades back.
Forget 'em.
- 991
That's a lot of major assumptions though. Even in a perfect merger situation, the County would have certainly required that many departments and offices be located in Clayton. We can't just assume that the City would have automatically gained everything and some major shift in public service workforce would have happened towards downtown. And even if the main new consolidated board or hall was downtown, Clayton would have maintained its commercial development core.
A merger would make a ton of sense to fix fragmentation, but it's not a silver bullet to magically get companies to move downtown from the County.
A merger would make a ton of sense to fix fragmentation, but it's not a silver bullet to magically get companies to move downtown from the County.
Clayton would have just developed into a what Buckhead is to Downtown Atlanta. St. Louis is still a region of nearly 3 million people and virtually every region of that size has multiple downtown districts. St. Louis has Downtown, Midtown, Central West End, and Clayton. That would have not changed under a merger. In fact, Clayton and the region in general might even be significantly larger. Under a merger St. Louis probably would have publicly financed even larger redevelopment plans and TIFs that would have attracted more corporations and unabated growth. Fragmentation is partly what maintains St. Louis' smaller village feel in certain areas. The lack of uniformity and standards that you see in big sprawls cities just doesn't exist in St. Louis. It feels like a mid size city surrounded by a bunch of villages, which is essentially what it is.
^ That’s what I think too. Clayton still would have happened.
St. Louis has Clayton
Atlanta has Buckhead
Seattle has Bellevue
Baltimore has Towson
Detroit has several
DC has Rosslyn-Ballston (among others)
Edge cities are numerous in America, in just about every major metro. In my opinion, I’d consider Clayton one of the denser and more urban ones. Walkable and solid mass transit connections. The St. Louis region just needs to grow more to support both districts (and the emerging one in Chesterfield) instead of competing against each other.
St. Louis has Clayton
Atlanta has Buckhead
Seattle has Bellevue
Baltimore has Towson
Detroit has several
DC has Rosslyn-Ballston (among others)
Edge cities are numerous in America, in just about every major metro. In my opinion, I’d consider Clayton one of the denser and more urban ones. Walkable and solid mass transit connections. The St. Louis region just needs to grow more to support both districts (and the emerging one in Chesterfield) instead of competing against each other.
I agree, St. Louis could have something very similar to Atlanta's Peachtree corridor with the right planning. Clayton is actually developing very nicely. I really think the Central Corridor is where most of the future new growth will take place in the St. Louis region. That area from the river to Clayton is where most transplants will want to live.sc4mayor wrote: ↑Mar 12, 2022^ That’s what I think too. Clayton still would have happened.
St. Louis has Clayton
Atlanta has Buckhead
Seattle has Bellevue
Baltimore has Towson
Detroit has several
DC has Rosslyn-Ballston (among others)
Edge cities are numerous in America, in just about every major metro. In my opinion, I’d consider Clayton one of the denser and more urban ones. Walkable and solid mass transit connections. The St. Louis region just needs to grow more to support both districts (and the emerging one in Chesterfield) instead of competing against each other.
I think one difference with Clayton and for example downtown. Clayton only really has so much footprint to grow "up" it is surrounded by single family homes on all sides and besides the main "downtown" area it isn't going to really spread past FPP/Maryland/170/Hanley (besides the Centene part).chriss752 wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2022I understand what they mean. The small old commercial buildings that are slowly being demolished and replaced with things like Bemiston Place, Forsyth Point, Residence Inn, AC Hotel, 50 Bemiston and World Newe Site. These are all sites where smaller commercial buildings once stood/still stand. The last few years have seen an uptick in proposals to do away with those small buildings. So in terms of it feeling small town, I think that’s what they mean._nomad_ wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2022A number of people quoted say Clayton has a "small-town" feel that they fear losing, I cannot understand that term. How can one of the primary business and political hubs of a region populated by nearly 3 million people possibly be considered "small-town" in feeling or any other way? I can't imagine "small-town" as one of the feelings I get walking around Clayton, but maybe I just don't get what people are trying to describe when using the term.sc4mayor wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2022High-rises are booming in Clayton, but will downtown lose its charm?
https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... the-latest
So even if that area builds up a lot I think it can keep a small town feel (Maybe it does lose some "charm") because its a lot of walking thru neighborhoods with some high rises in the middle.
I live in Ucity but I will walk into Clayton a fair amount to get dinner or whatever else and I think because for the most part the area is walkable it still feels small town to me. I actually kind of like the dynamic that you can be in neighborhood streets and then there are all these big buildings just a couple streets over. I get the point of some losing charm and if the shops/resturants along Maryland go I would be a little sad but I wouldn't lose sleep over it.
K-Rails are up surrounding the Bemiston Place and AC Hotel sites. I’d say these are moving forward in short order.
Can't figure out Clayton's approach to maintaining walkways around construction projects. The Clarendale had a covered walkway. The AC Hotel gets a protected walkway into the adjacent parking spots with modification of the Metrolink access ramp. But this and Forsyth Pointe get sidewalks and a lane of traffic cut off. On Maryland, this is blocking the (newly-installed) bike path, parking spots, and one lane of traffic. I'd argue that this block and the block around Forsyth Pointe get a lot more foot traffic than Clayton/Hanley.sc4mayor wrote: ↑Mar 14, 2022K-Rails are up surrounding the Bemiston Place and AC Hotel sites. I’d say these are moving forward in short order.