urbanSTL

framer wrote: ↑

May 10, 2021

Legendary German architect Helmut Jahn, who had a huge impact on large-scale Midwest architecture (for better or worse, I guess) was killed Saturday while riding his bike in Chicago. He was hit by two cars; details unclear. 

Was actually in Campton Hills, which is 60 or so miles west of Chicago. It's more open prairie and farms than what you'd think of as a suburb. I consider it the outermost edge of Chicagoland - go any further west and it's all cornfield. 
The intersection was Old LaFox Road and Burlington (which in that area is a main highway with lots of traffic). Apparently he didn't stop at the stop sign, and the drivers on Burlington had no stop signs to break for. So he basically rode right into cross traffic. I have family who live less than 100 yards from this intersection, and can attest that it's not hidden / there aren't bad sightlines. 

^^The national bad driving epidemic has been making front page news. I'm sorry to hear that. No matter what one might think of his architecture that's a horrible waste.

Laife Fulk wrote: ↑

May 10, 2021

framer wrote: ↑

May 10, 2021

Legendary German architect Helmut Jahn, who had a huge impact on large-scale Midwest architecture (for better or worse, I guess) was killed Saturday while riding his bike in Chicago. He was hit by two cars; details unclear. 

Was actually in Campton Hills, which is 60 or so miles west of Chicago. It's more open prairie and farms than what you'd think of as a suburb. I consider it the outermost edge of Chicagoland - go any further west and it's all cornfield. 
The intersection was Old LaFox Road and Burlington (which in that area is a main highway with lots of traffic). Apparently he didn't stop at the stop sign, and the drivers on Burlington had no stop signs to break for. So he basically rode right into cross traffic. I have family who live less than 100 yards from this intersection, and can attest that it's not hidden / there aren't bad sightlines. 

The bizarre fact that he was hit by two cars seems to suggest he was somehow disoriented and just biked right into traffic.

My guess as well.  He was hit by the southbound driver first and that collision pushed him into the northbound lane where the second vehicle hit him. 

In bid to reduce road deaths, Spain rolls out 30km/h speed limit on most urban streets
https://english.elpais.com/spanish_news/2021-05-11/in-bid-to-reduce-road-deaths-spain-rolls-out-30kmh-speed-limit-on-most-urban-streets.html

chris fuller wrote: ↑

May 12, 2021

In bid to reduce road deaths, Spain rolls out 30km/h speed limit on most urban streets
https://english.elpais.com/spanish_news/2021-05-11/in-bid-to-reduce-road-deaths-spain-rolls-out-30kmh-speed-limit-on-most-urban-streets.html

The pedestrian and cycling situation is a bit different in Europe as is driving culture from my experience. Maybe this'll do it for them. Wish them luck.

Lowering limits does nothing if people don't follow the rules. Road diets and speed bumps could work for us but we probably don't have money for it. Police has never had interest in pulling people over and I don't see anyone being sent to jail over traffic violations especially now.

flipz wrote: ↑

May 12, 2021

chris fuller wrote: ↑

May 12, 2021

In bid to reduce road deaths, Spain rolls out 30km/h speed limit on most urban streets
https://english.elpais.com/spanish_news/2021-05-11/in-bid-to-reduce-road-deaths-spain-rolls-out-30kmh-speed-limit-on-most-urban-streets.html

The pedestrian and cycling situation is a bit different in Europe as is driving culture from my experience. Maybe this'll do it for them. Wish them luck.

Lowering limits does nothing if people don't follow the rules. Road diets and speed bumps could work for us but we probably don't have money for it. Police has never had interest in pulling people over and I don't see anyone being sent to jail over traffic violations especially now.

Yep, and study after study has proven that drivers will drive as fast as they are comfortable going irrespective of posted speed limits.

Design a road so cars can go 40 MPH (or 60 KPH as the case may be) and slap a 20 MPH/30 KPH speed limit on it and drivers will continue to drive 40 MPH. 

The only real way to get drivers to slow down is to make it harder (either real or perceived) to drive faster. Speed humps or tables, bumpouts, lane reductions, etc.  I don't see a simple speed limit reduction working at all.

-RBB

^ or mandatory speed regulators in all vehicles. IMO that's the only universal solution. no municipality has the resources to sufficiently retrofit streets with physical barriers like speed humps.

$500m in stimulus funds and we can't dole out a dozen or so to put in some starter road diet staples? Not asking for flashy new planted medians or reworked streetscapes, but it'll give the City an opportunity to actually implement, watch, and analyze in some sort of material way instead of throwing study after study out and nothing happening.

U City police have been conducting a plainclothes sting operation at the Delmar roundabout the last few days. They're nabbing drivers who don't stop for pedestrians in the crosswalk. Not sure if they're giving out tickets or just warnings.

My mother, who is . . . *grumble mumble ahem* . . . old enough to drive slow, get the good insurance rates, and generally complain about driving at night drove down Compton for the first time in, oh, a generation yesterday. The speed humps slowed her down. (Thankfully the neurologically impaired spouse saw them quickly enough to warn her.) We DO have enough cash to start implementing this stuff. We're doing it and it's working. No, it's not all done yet. Sure, there's more needed. But we ARE doing it and that's Fan-Flipping-TASTIC!!! We need more.

(And we will doubtless get more.)

Engineered solutions work. You want to keep a plane from going off a cliff at the end of a runway? EMALS. You want to slow a car down? speed humps, chicanes, road diets, bumpouts. We have the technology. In the grand scheme of things it's actually pretty cheap. Cheaper to build speed humps on every street than to put speed limiters in every car. (Even in the US, maybe especially in the US, there are fewer streets.)

KSDK - Man dies after crash in St. Louis County

https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/local ... a0d7859463

KSDK - Man dies in mini bike crash in St. Louis County

https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/local ... 8d8425c93f

Stltoday - Four-vehicle [crash] in St. Louis County sends 8 to the hospital

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/cri ... f8c8e.html

symphonicpoet wrote: ↑

May 13, 2021

My mother, who is . . . *grumble mumble ahem* . . . old enough to drive slow, get the good insurance rates, and generally complain about driving at night drove down Compton for the first time in, oh, a generation yesterday. The speed humps slowed her down. (Thankfully the neurologically impaired spouse saw them quickly enough to warn her.) We DO have enough cash to start implementing this stuff. We're doing it and it's working. No, it's not all done yet. Sure, there's more needed. But we ARE doing it and that's Fan-Flipping-TASTIC!!! We need more.

(And we will doubtless get more.)

Engineered solutions work. You want to keep a plane from going off a cliff at the end of a runway? EMALS. You want to slow a car down? speed humps, chicanes, road diets, bumpouts. We have the technology. In the grand scheme of things it's actually pretty cheap. Cheaper to build speed humps on every street than to put speed limiters in every car. (Even in the US, maybe especially in the US, there are fewer streets.)

there might be  enough cash to start but inherently hyper-local solutions like speed humps and mini roundabouts are just never going to achieve adequate coverage—not to mention that one can still take a speed hump at like twice the speed limit or more, depending on suspension. there's no real deterrent other than a little bouncing. i'm not arguing against using these tools as much as possible. it's the best option at the moment, but it's not sufficient. i live on a street with multiple speed humps and they're spaced such that people just speed from hump to hump. they also generate a sh*t-load of noise, which you probably don't think about unless you get stuck living next to one. anyway, yeah definitely engineered solutions can work. don't think i suggested otherwise. but they're not all equally effective. i do, however, strongly disagree that it would be cheaper to install and maintain speed humps on every street (not to mention less effective) than to require auto manufacturers to install speed limiters.

It would be beneficial to go ahead and just start somewhere because ultimately we'd be making everything more walkable. Aldermen get 100k a year each for sidewalks. Seems like over 5-10 years a lot could be done with just that money.  

Stltoday - 2 killed in crash on westbound Interstate 70 in Berkeley

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/cri ... 1dabe.html

urban_dilettante wrote: ↑

May 12, 2021

^ or mandatory speed regulators in all vehicles. IMO that's the only universal solution. no municipality has the resources to sufficiently retrofit streets with physical barriers like speed humps.

Which would immediately set up a huge industry of back alley mechanics who will "deregulate" your car for a couple hundred bucks.

^ yeah but you get that with any regulation, and it would still equate to FAR fewer people speeding.

^Honestly, an "all of the above" approach is probably best. We resurface every street in the country on a predictable (ish) schedule. There's absolutely no reason we can't make some basic improvements when we resurface. In ten years time most of the major roads and intersections could easily be done if we attack this systematically. In twenty they could all be done. Sure, we can make fuel economy and safety more of a requirement for new vehicles. (And well we should.) But a good engineered solution will slow down every car, whether it has the new gizmos or not. This isn't impossible. And given what we're already paying for roads it's not even expensive. Long term it might even cut maintenance costs and save us all money.

National cycling champion dies after being hit by car while training:

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/national-c ... 07690.html

KSDK - 2 people killed in Cahokia Heights crash

https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/local ... 5e720c3435