^Hey now! Just because we have a lot of old buildings in need of TLC doesn't mean you need to go off and get all negative about everything. That's my dumpster you're talking about there. And it ain't the whole thing that's on fire. Just one disused jar of screws in a dusty corner of the basement. We're not a total loss just yet, no matter what the Better Together thread might say.
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it's a lot more than one jar of screws. old buildings are set on fire (or brick thieved, or whatever) with depressing frequency. not saying this out of hate, but heartbreak. i'll shut up.
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It does seem like a common occurrence for historic building to conveniently catch on fire when an owner is floating the idea to demolish them. This thing lasted 20 years of neglect & abandonment, then it burns when they start talking about demo.... Definitely nips the old historic preservation crowd in the bud. It's suspicious but extremely hard to prove intent.
That said Notre Dame caught on fire too. Old buildings do burn easily.
In the case of this building I think demo makes sense anyway, but i like the idea of not approving until there is evidence the replacement is financed.
That said Notre Dame caught on fire too. Old buildings do burn easily.
In the case of this building I think demo makes sense anyway, but i like the idea of not approving until there is evidence the replacement is financed.
There were homeless people in this building and a quick assessment of the situation found that the fire was started by the homeless to try and keep warm.
This building is horrible. The amount of toxins on the site and in the building will almost certainly require the soil around it to be incinerated prior to any major construction, including what is proposed. It’s assumed that these toxins, from when this was a manufacturing building, were released into the air as the building burned the other night.
I’m not sure what the toxins are, but I do know that demolition will require the EPA to make sure the site is cleaned properly.
This building is horrible. The amount of toxins on the site and in the building will almost certainly require the soil around it to be incinerated prior to any major construction, including what is proposed. It’s assumed that these toxins, from when this was a manufacturing building, were released into the air as the building burned the other night.
I’m not sure what the toxins are, but I do know that demolition will require the EPA to make sure the site is cleaned properly.
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I quite literally have nothing to add other than this is extremely exciting, and I cannot wait to see this plan come to fruition. Developments like this will help change the mindset of people like my parents when crossing over the river and no longer thinking "this place is a craphole" and instead "Wow, this place is nice!"
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Estimated daily ridership of the PSB is 100,000 cars, many of them being interstate travellers. Outside of this area one can count the blighted buildings visible from 64 on one hand which is huge for perception. 44 is a similar situation. 
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If the Apteds can start on even a single property in 2020, it would be a huge success IMO. Fingers crossed.
Maybe there was a good reason, but they didn't seem to have much luck with the Lafayette Square broom factory (now the Bordeaux).debaliviere wrote: ↑Jan 03, 2020If the Apteds can start on even a single property in 2020, it would be a huge success IMO. Fingers crossed.
It should be noted that the Rally’s on 4th/Broadway has closed. The gas pumps are also supposedly closed. It may not be related to Chouteau’s Landing, but it’s interesting enough to mention. Now, time to get Taco Bell, White Castle and BP closed down.
In Chouteau’s Landing related news, there’s a rumor going around that the Church is going to have the burned out Crunden Martin building demolished. I cannot confirm that though.
There is also a project of some kind going on on 3rd Street south of Chouteau. I’ll go by there later today to see what’s up.
In Chouteau’s Landing related news, there’s a rumor going around that the Church is going to have the burned out Crunden Martin building demolished. I cannot confirm that though.
There is also a project of some kind going on on 3rd Street south of Chouteau. I’ll go by there later today to see what’s up.
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Any reasoning on why they are closed?? Is there a new development in the works??
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St. Mary of Victories? They don't own it, so not sure how they're going to have it demolished.chriss752 wrote: ↑Feb 16, 2020In Chouteau’s Landing related news, there’s a rumor going around that the Church is going to have the burned out Crunden Martin building demolished. I cannot confirm that though.
I was down that way last night. The Rally's is definitely closing, all of the branding and signage has already been removed. The gas station is still "open", and there were people at the pumps.
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Why do we want these closed down? I have heard complaints from hotel convention goers they struggle to find fast food in DT St. Louis that is available in other markets. We have lost Panera, Hardees, Wendy's, Lion Choice. What do we gain by losing these?chriss752 wrote: ↑Feb 16, 2020It should be noted that the Rally’s on 4th/Broadway has closed. The gas pumps are also supposedly closed. It may not be related to Chouteau’s Landing, but it’s interesting enough to mention. Now, time to get Taco Bell, White Castle and BP closed down.
In Chouteau’s Landing related news, there’s a rumor going around that the Church is going to have the burned out Crunden Martin building demolished. I cannot confirm that though.
There is also a project of some kind going on on 3rd Street south of Chouteau. I’ll go by there later today to see what’s up.
These establishments are havens for drug dealing and are meeting spots for cruisers. At BP, I've seen multiple drug deals taking place and at White Castle, there have been heated arguments there and the cruisers meeting there and at Rally's cause problems. They then try to go into the parking lot at 800 South 4th and do donuts in the parking lot. They need to go.STLCityMike wrote: ↑Feb 19, 2020Why do we want these closed down? I have heard complaints from hotel convention goers they struggle to find fast food in DT St. Louis that is available in other markets. We have lost Panera, Hardees, Wendy's, Lion Choice. What do we gain by losing these?chriss752 wrote: ↑Feb 16, 2020It should be noted that the Rally’s on 4th/Broadway has closed. The gas pumps are also supposedly closed. It may not be related to Chouteau’s Landing, but it’s interesting enough to mention. Now, time to get Taco Bell, White Castle and BP closed down.
In Chouteau’s Landing related news, there’s a rumor going around that the Church is going to have the burned out Crunden Martin building demolished. I cannot confirm that though.
There is also a project of some kind going on on 3rd Street south of Chouteau. I’ll go by there later today to see what’s up.
These places are also a long walk from the hotels so unless those people drive, it's not that much of a loss unless you like crappy tacos or overpriced mini burgers.
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So some of the activities around them need to go and they need to be policed more. There are fast food chains in most major urban areas that don't have these problems. The reference I provided was from friends out east who were at a convention being held in the Millennium Hotel, and their complaint was a lack of later night food alternatives. Yes, they walked to White Castle.chriss752 wrote: ↑Feb 19, 2020These establishments are havens for drug dealing and are meeting spots for cruisers. At BP, I've seen multiple drug deals taking place and at White Castle, there have been heated arguments there and the cruisers meeting there and at Rally's cause problems. They then try to go into the parking lot at 800 South 4th and do donuts in the parking lot. They need to go.STLCityMike wrote: ↑Feb 19, 2020Why do we want these closed down? I have heard complaints from hotel convention goers they struggle to find fast food in DT St. Louis that is available in other markets. We have lost Panera, Hardees, Wendy's, Lion Choice. What do we gain by losing these?chriss752 wrote: ↑Feb 16, 2020It should be noted that the Rally’s on 4th/Broadway has closed. The gas pumps are also supposedly closed. It may not be related to Chouteau’s Landing, but it’s interesting enough to mention. Now, time to get Taco Bell, White Castle and BP closed down.
In Chouteau’s Landing related news, there’s a rumor going around that the Church is going to have the burned out Crunden Martin building demolished. I cannot confirm that though.
There is also a project of some kind going on on 3rd Street south of Chouteau. I’ll go by there later today to see what’s up.
These places are also a long walk from the hotels so unless those people drive, it's not that much of a loss unless you like crappy tacos or overpriced mini burgers.
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Also imagine what it could be if it wasn't clogged up by auto oriented low density uses. A midrise apartment development on this block could be a stitch help to reconnect Downtown to Soulard. Walk-able connectivity is what 90% of the discussion on this site revolves around.
I am not inherently against fast food downtown options, but large surface parking lots and drive-thrus are a serious downside of their business model. I think fast casual is a better model for downtown than traditional drive-thru chains. Chipoltle, Five Guys, etc.
Of course if it ends up as a pay for parking lot it will be a net loss.
I am not inherently against fast food downtown options, but large surface parking lots and drive-thrus are a serious downside of their business model. I think fast casual is a better model for downtown than traditional drive-thru chains. Chipoltle, Five Guys, etc.
Of course if it ends up as a pay for parking lot it will be a net loss.
That is a problem with the downtown retail situation which needs to be solved. Providing drive-thru fast food in a sea of parking on the desolate outskirts of downtown is a terrible solution, and I'd guess their journey led to a less positive impression of St. Louis than if they had gone back to their hotel room and ordered a pizza.STLCityMike wrote: ↑Feb 19, 2020So some of the activities around them need to go and they need to be policed more. There are fast food chains in most major urban areas that don't have these problems. The reference I provided was from friends out east who were at a convention being held in the Millennium Hotel, and their complaint was a lack of later night food alternatives. Yes, they walked to White Castle.
And BTW, the Millennium Hotel has been closed for 6 years...
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Yeah I am hoping this was just a mistake.urbanitas wrote: ↑Feb 19, 2020And BTW, the Millennium Hotel has been closed for 6 years...STLCityMike wrote: ↑Feb 19, 2020So some of the activities around them need to go and they need to be policed more. There are fast food chains in most major urban areas that don't have these problems. The reference I provided was from friends out east who were at a convention being held in the Millennium Hotel, and their complaint was a lack of later night food alternatives. Yes, they walked to White Castle.
If you (StLCityMike) are advocating for better/more robust food options downtown I am with you. If you believe the Rally's and White Castle at these specific locations are critical to accomplishing this I could not disagree more.
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What I was asking was why wish fast food chains were closing. And yes, I realize this was years back but was has happened over the years was specifically what I said - the closure of many chains without the things suggested here to replace them as better options.newstl2020 wrote: ↑Feb 20, 2020Yeah I am hoping this was just a mistake.urbanitas wrote: ↑Feb 19, 2020And BTW, the Millennium Hotel has been closed for 6 years...STLCityMike wrote: ↑Feb 19, 2020So some of the activities around them need to go and they need to be policed more. There are fast food chains in most major urban areas that don't have these problems. The reference I provided was from friends out east who were at a convention being held in the Millennium Hotel, and their complaint was a lack of later night food alternatives. Yes, they walked to White Castle.
If you (StLCityMike) are advocating for better/more robust food options downtown I am with you. If you believe the Rally's and White Castle at these specific locations are critical to accomplishing this I could not disagree more.
It would be great to see walk in restaurants replace them, but that isn't the case. And, by the way there are seas of open face parking lots between these places and downtown that could probably be the focus of change before these places. I would rather see these infill before we lose business in the hope of a more robust urban environment. At least these generate sales tax as well as property tax.
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For an out-of-towner, going back to their hotel room and getting STL style pizza would be the least positive impression - possibly worse than getting mugged.urbanitas wrote: ↑Feb 19, 2020and I'd guess their journey led to a less positive impression of St. Louis than if they had gone back to their hotel room and ordered a pizza.
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^I doubt any out of towner would order thin and crispy unless they wanted thin and crispy. It's not as though we're remotely short on pizza options. All your usual national suspects are available, plus plenty of local chains and one-offs that deliver. Some have smoked the special provel. Others not so much. What kind of pie you want? However you want it, we got something for you.
That 4th street Imo's is one of the worst in the city, and yet, probably, and unfortunately, the most ordered from by out of towners in hotels.
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Not the one on the 1700 block of Delmar? That was my first experience with Imo’s and a very positive one.bwcrow1s wrote:That 4th street Imo's is one of the worst in the city, and yet, probably, and unfortunately, the most ordered from by out of towners in hotels.
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I'd guess more out of towners stay downtown than anywhere else, yes. If only by simple math: there are more rooms there. We recommended Maurizio's, as I recall, but mostly on the power of them being about the only place open that late into the night. (I STARTED at eleven, so . . . yeah. Everything else was already closed.) I guess they're still going and still open 'till four. I honestly cannot particularly recall their pizza. But I assure you, neither I nor the other night staff recommended the 4th Street Imos. Not that it really matters.
Their pizza is great. I'd put it up against any new York style pizza in St. Louis.symphonicpoet wrote: ↑Feb 22, 2020I'd guess more out of towners stay downtown than anywhere else, yes. If only by simple math: there are more rooms there. We recommended Maurizio's, as I recall, but mostly on the power of them being about the only place open that late into the night. (I STARTED at eleven, so . . . yeah. Everything else was already closed.) I guess they're still going and still open 'till four. I honestly cannot particularly recall their pizza. But I assure you, neither I nor the other night staff recommended the 4th Street Imos. Not that it really matters.