"How we wiped out Kosciusko, which could have been another Soulard"
https://www.stlmag.com/history/architec ... kosciusko/
https://www.stlmag.com/history/architec ... kosciusko/
^ I saw that a few weeks ago...very depressing.
I love Chris Naffziger's work though. His St. Louis Magazine articles are always on point.
I love Chris Naffziger's work though. His St. Louis Magazine articles are always on point.
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I would like to see streetscape improvements done very early. I think of how both the Grove and Washington Ave did their sidewalks and lightning when both those areas were still very sketchy.
I would like Chouteau's Landing to be mostly residential and maybe some sort of loop or strip with bars and cool store's on 4th street, something like Nashville's. As a college student I hear about how the bar scene in downtown is not up to par from my colleagues.
Some more history and info about Chouteau's Landing / Crunden Martin complex, with lots of pictures:
Preservation Research Office - Crunden-Martin After the Fire
Built St. Louis - Crunden Martin Manufacturing Company
St, Louis Patina - Crunden Martin, Still Waiting
Preservation Research Office - Crunden-Martin After the Fire
Built St. Louis - Crunden Martin Manufacturing Company
St, Louis Patina - Crunden Martin, Still Waiting
Neat finds, Urbanitas.
I’ll post some photos from 2005-6 later on. It’s both sad and interesting to see how the area has deteriorated over the past 13 or 14 years.
I’ll post some photos from 2005-6 later on. It’s both sad and interesting to see how the area has deteriorated over the past 13 or 14 years.
All of these photos were taken during Chivvis' planning phase for the area. 2004-2006.
Helicopter View (April 2004)
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Roof view from Crunden Martin (February 2005)
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Looking East on Gratiot (March 2005)
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Looking North on 2nd (March 2005)
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Looking South on 2nd (March 2005)
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Powell Square (April 2005)
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742 South 4th (November 2005)
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744 South 4th (November 2005)
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750 South 4th (November 2005)
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754 South 4th (November 2005)
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756 South 4th (November 2005)
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700 Block (November 2005)
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321 Lombard (November 2005)
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900 South 4th (November 2005)
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904-8 South 4th (November 2005)
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View from the roof of 904-8 South 4th (December 2005)
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Powell Square (February 2006)
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Helicopter View (April 2004)
Roof view from Crunden Martin (February 2005)
Looking East on Gratiot (March 2005)
Looking North on 2nd (March 2005)
Looking South on 2nd (March 2005)
Powell Square (April 2005)
742 South 4th (November 2005)
744 South 4th (November 2005)
750 South 4th (November 2005)
754 South 4th (November 2005)
756 South 4th (November 2005)
700 Block (November 2005)
321 Lombard (November 2005)
900 South 4th (November 2005)
904-8 South 4th (November 2005)
View from the roof of 904-8 South 4th (December 2005)
Powell Square (February 2006)
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^ Man, I'm still upset about Powell Square :/
Hopefully one day there'll be a "lookalike" building built there, at least in terms of materials and massing (though I sure wouldn't complain with a glass tower).
Hopefully one day there'll be a "lookalike" building built there, at least in terms of materials and massing (though I sure wouldn't complain with a glass tower).
^Yup, and this one, the building demolished due to a "clerical error"...
The person who owns all those properties on 4th street should have them forcibly removed from their possession. It's disgusting. The intentional vacancy has such a bad effect on that entire stretch that could be reimagined.
Terry McDonald is his name FYI. He owns the local Dent Devil places.bwcrow1s wrote:The person who owns all those properties on 4th street should have them forcibly removed from their possession. It's disgusting. The intentional vacancy has such a bad effect on that entire stretch that could be reimagined.
He owns 744, 750, 756, 800 South 4th as well as the Meineke Tire shop North of the train bridges. He also owns some other parking lots in the area and the parcel between 2nd, Lombard, 3rd, and Gratiot.
^ Do you know if anyone is actively trying to feel this person out on buying the property? I know you mentioned that 4th street largely wasn't in the plans for any of this but I don't see Chouteau's Landing succeeding without a successful commercial strip. Or at least one that isn't half vacant/rotting. Perception goes a long way.
The one property in the actual Chouteau’s Landing area will almost certainly be included. As for the 4th Street buildings and parking lot, it’s hard to know if they’ll be included. Some say he is crazy and wants an ungodly amount of money for the buildings. The amount of money he wants makes a redevelopment not profitable.bwcrow1s wrote:^ Do you know if anyone is actively trying to feel this person out on buying the property? I know you mentioned that 4th street largely wasn't in the plans for any of this but I don't see Chouteau's Landing succeeding without a successful commercial strip. Or at least one that isn't half vacant/rotting. Perception goes a long way.
The initial redevelopment plans will be revealed tomorrow on my website after working hard with the developer to come up with the story. Before renderings are published, I thought I would say that a few recommendations from people have been taken into consideration. Until the renderings are released, I won't say which points.
On a note that will be sad for some, 4th Street is not included in these plans. However, plans are being worked on but will not be included in the release of the plans for Chouteau's Landing.
This is going to be a huge project for Downtown and the City as a whole.
And if anyone doubts this, I know the timeline to start Phase 1 but am not in the position to release it at this time. To put it vaguely, the hope is this will move fast. There are many partners interested in co-developing this which helps the odds of this happening.
On a note that will be sad for some, 4th Street is not included in these plans. However, plans are being worked on but will not be included in the release of the plans for Chouteau's Landing.
This is going to be a huge project for Downtown and the City as a whole.
And if anyone doubts this, I know the timeline to start Phase 1 but am not in the position to release it at this time. To put it vaguely, the hope is this will move fast. There are many partners interested in co-developing this which helps the odds of this happening.
Plans are now public!
The St. Louis based Apted Brothers are teaming up with a yet to be announced development company to redevelop Chouteau's Landing. Office, residential, retail, a hotel, brewery, green space, and parking are all planned.
Arcturis is leading design for the project.
For quotes from the Apteds, see my story here: https://www.cityscene-stl.com/post/chou ... nding-plan
Chouteau East today...
2nd Street looking North today...
I didn't go up into a helicopter or plane and I didn't fly a drone, so here is a rendering of the district under the current redevelopment plan...
And below is a site plan.
The St. Louis based Apted Brothers are teaming up with a yet to be announced development company to redevelop Chouteau's Landing. Office, residential, retail, a hotel, brewery, green space, and parking are all planned.
Arcturis is leading design for the project.
For quotes from the Apteds, see my story here: https://www.cityscene-stl.com/post/chou ... nding-plan
Chouteau East today...
2nd Street looking North today...
I didn't go up into a helicopter or plane and I didn't fly a drone, so here is a rendering of the district under the current redevelopment plan...
And below is a site plan.
While this looks good, I think someone is going to have to pump the breaks on Chouteau corridor... Sarah/The Grove, Iron Hill, Foundry/Armory, Steelcote District, Mackay Quarter, now Chouteaus Landing? This is millions of sqft of office (in a market with high vacancies already), retail (retail is down nationwide, but especially near Downtown), and residential (just hovering healthy vacancy in certain parts of Chouteau corridor).
This all just feels to reminiscent of 2005 - 2006.
This all just feels to reminiscent of 2005 - 2006.
I could see the office space plan in Chouteau's Landing being downsized. Overall, this project has been downsized from the May vision. Larger buildings would've dotted the site.
The plans we see now have a better chance at happening than the May plans and certainly Steve Murphy's plans. Q2 or Q3 2020 is when plans will be finalized. Q1 2021 is the hopeful start. So expect plans to change again but not deviate far from this. The office space would be the biggest thing to change.
Below is the May version.
The plans we see now have a better chance at happening than the May plans and certainly Steve Murphy's plans. Q2 or Q3 2020 is when plans will be finalized. Q1 2021 is the hopeful start. So expect plans to change again but not deviate far from this. The office space would be the biggest thing to change.
Below is the May version.
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Are there any plans to weatherize the Crunden Martin buildings before 2021? Particularly the one missing a roof... you'd think that'd make things cheaper in the long run.
Also, bike lanes on Chouteau and 2nd could make some nice connections.
Also, bike lanes on Chouteau and 2nd could make some nice connections.
If this development can secure a large office tenant from outside St. Louis I can see this being very successful.
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Chris, do you know if any demolition is planned? It looks like the building that is just visible at the left edge of the first image is gone in the corresponding rendering.
Just a note, but I see a passenger rail vehicle on the elevated rail. Unless a new large TDD is proposed, MetroLink will not make it to this site. While Amtrak can run on that portion of track south of McCarthy, it is not very common.
Early plans have the remnants of Servco, the Housing Authority owned building at 2nd and Chouteau, a factory building bounded by 2nd, Gratiot, 3rd and Lombard, and a loading dock on Lombard Street all being demolished. Mostly because they would cost more to renovate than to demolish. The burned Crunden Martin building is tricky as they want to redevelop it but aren’t sure if it’s possible or worth it. Sure, it’s burned out, but they could preserve the facade and build a new structure inside. Costly? Yes. Doable? Yes. Will it happen? Hopefully.
*Liz Lemon eye roll*addxb2 wrote: ↑Nov 23, 2019Just a note, but I see a passenger rail vehicle on the elevated rail. Unless a new large TDD is proposed, MetroLink will not make it to this site. While Amtrak can run on that portion of track south of McCarthy, it is not very common.
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This project gives me hope for the future of the Lemp Brewery complex. This is a game changer