urbanSTL

They're willing to drop the drive thru (not the two curb cuts) and the building is looking better. But for me the land productivity is way too low. This is not how we make our city solvent. The community has said in all the planning around there that we want big. The proposed form-based code would have minimum 3 stories and 40' tall. It looks to leave about 60% of the frontage on Skinker open and about 50% along Delmar. The head of our historic cmte gave them hell at a meeting this week. It was great. Why they're even wasting our time is a wonder.
This property needs a new owner. It's bigger than 4400 Manchester. Restoration Stl figured a way to make it work there.

^Awesome post. Thanks for the update.

The drive-thru is really besides the point, isn't it? The CVS building going in cater-corner has a drive-thru, but it's size, frontage, orientation and altogether "productivity" make it a great add for the intersection, neighborhood and city. Will be interesting to watch this unfold - thanks again for keeping us in the know.

EDIT: Upon further thought, the Delmar curb-cut absolutely has to go. The Commerce building has some parking fronting Delmar on either side of it, but the low brick wall separating it from the sidewalk really makes it a non-factor for the pedestrian. I'm not saying a single story bank building taking up 1/2 or less of the frontage lot would be acceptable, but the Delmar curb-cut should be an absolute non-starter.

Folks are lining up to open medical marijuana dispensaries in the East Loop.
Anyone know if the city or state will allow them to be close to each other?

quincunx wrote: They're willing to drop the drive thru (not the two curb cuts) and the building is looking better. But for me the land productivity is way too low. This is not how we make our city solvent. The community has said in all the planning around there that we want big. The proposed form-based code would have minimum 3 stories and 40' tall. It looks to leave about 60% of the frontage on Skinker open and about 50% along Delmar. The head of our historic cmte gave them hell at a meeting this week. It was great. Why they're even wasting our time is a wonder.
This property needs a new owner. It's bigger than 4400 Manchester. Restoration Stl figured a way to make it work there.

From what I've heard, the lot is owned by Jeff Fox of Harbour Group, and he will never, ever sell it as he views it as an investment to benefit his children and grandchildren. That's why he will only ground lease it to the bank.

A man named Stanley Hoffman came to the neighborhood meeting calling himself the owner/developer, unless I misunderstood.

quincunx wrote: A man named Stanley Hoffman came to the neighborhood meeting calling himself the owner/developer, unless I misunderstood.

He's the president of St. Louis Commercial Realty, the listing agent managing the lease. Jeff Fox owns it.

Then I weep for how long this property may be vacant

quincunx wrote: Then I weep for how long this property may be vacant

I think as long as the Skinky D neighborhood groups can continue successfully opposing the terrible ideas that keep being proposed for that corner, he will finally come around and seek out development partners that will do the right thing and build something dense and mixed use there. But he will never sell the property, that's for sure.

WUSTL bought the former Pete's Shur Sav at Delmar and Hamilton.

3-5 story apt building please.

Nice. That's this building, right between the Loop Trolley Barn and the new-ish apartment/retail building to the left:





Just across Delmar from this place which always seems busy:





And catty-corner from this vacant lot:

Some ideas for the Delmar station posted on Twitter. Not a fan of moving the buses further from the station shown in the second image (the first shows them on Des Peres) . Like at Grand how annoying it is to go from the platform, cross a street, to the elevator, particularly for NB bus transfer since there's only one entrance to the station on the western end of the platform. I liked the idea of access toth e platofrm form the south side on Delmar as shown in the TOD plan from a few years afo. Though crossing Delmar is easier with the trolley station there. 





From this tweet

Wait...they're gonna close Des Peres to cars?  

^That's such a messed up and truncated little warren there anyway I don't see what difference it makes if that particular block of Des Peres is open, closed, or even paved. Honestly, even if Des Peres were open all the way through to Forest Park it would never serve as much more than a local connector at best. And Skinker and Debaliviere seem to serve traffic functions more than adequately so I'm not even sure I'd lose any sleep about this particular road closure. We're not losing a grid here. There probably never was one anyway between the Wabash, Forest Park, and early meandering suburban-style planning.

. . . But I would absolutely kill to see the station reopened and integrated into the transit system as some kind of amenity in the way proposal three seems to imply, if I'm reading it right.

Well, I use that stretch of Des Peres several times a week; plenty of other folks do too. Now all those cars will have to join the fun at Delmar/Skinker. 

^I'm an occasional visitor to the loop at best, so I could be all washed up, but I'm not quite sure how that block of Des Peres gets you around Delmar and Skinker. Is not Des Peres closed a block south of Delmar anyway? I just don't see where it gets you, really. If it's open between Delmar and Forest Park I might change my tune.

But from your description it sounds like the little cutoff that used to exist between Olive and Lindell at Theresa. I used it. It was great. But honestly, it's not any less usable now. I have to wait through one extra light and drive a block out of my way. Meh. It was never busy and it didn't work if you needed to make a left, just for right turns. Was nice, but not necessary. I'm guessing Des Peres between Delmar and Enright/Rosedale is similar. Might be conveninent, but I expect everyone would survive without it and it wouldn't really impact larger scale traffic patterns noticeably. But again, this is just the guess of an outsider.

framer wrote: ↑

Oct 21, 2019

Well, I use that stretch of Des Peres several times a week; plenty of other folks do too. Now all those cars will have to join the fun at Delmar/Skinker. 

Did I miss something or are we just ignoring Rosedale? 

Rosedale. Right. I guess I'm just used to using Des Peres, but yeah, I see how Rosedale would work just fine. Gotta figure out that funky Rosedale/Des Peres intersection though; too much vehicular anarchy right there. 

^I will completely agree that intersection, and that part of town in general, is . . . weird. Anarchy sounds about right.

Any status updates on Joe's mini-golf project? Haven't seem much activity on-site lately. 

Anybody see this: https://www.cityscene-stl.com/post/6-st ... ing-delmar

JacksonPolyp wrote:Anybody see this: https://www.cityscene-stl.com/post/6-st ... ing-delmar

There’s a thread for this. 6190-delmar-t11790.html

WUSTL bought 6006 and 6010 Delmar. 
On the same day Design Alliance bought 5899 Delmar, the NE corner of Delmar and Hamilton. They are moving there. No new building
Taxes haven't been paid on 707 Goodfellow (at Delmar). Here's hoping it goes to tax sale or gets sold to someone able to build a proper building.

Interesting. I wonder what that means for the future of 6006, 6010 and 6014.

Looking forward to seeing what the do to spruce up/retrofit that old Shur Sav at Hamilton & Delmar.