^ depends on the individual hotel, but boutiques cater to both business and leisure travelers that prefer a smaller, more intimate hotel. And like with other hotels, a lot of travelers prefer certain boutique brands when available in a market; several rather large national ones like Kimpton & Aloft aren't in the Metro yet and the GIlls' Hotel Saint Louis would be the first to fly the Marriott "Autograph Collection" flag here. 21c Museum, which is based in Louisville and has been targeting the lower Midwest (Indy and KC hotels are under development) may be another good candidate.
I'm wondering when the last time downtown saw such interest from outside developers.... by my count developers from Milwaukee, Kansas City, Atlanta/Tennessee, Indianapolis, Florida and Turkey all show interest in historic properties since the start of the year. I'm also curious if Millennium (Arcade) or the company that did the Station Plaza, both from Minneapolis, will be looking for more projects here.
^Dominium did the Arcade. And I agree. It seems that that project has been a success across the board. Hopefully they can reproduce the major retail/commercial tenant, subsidized apartment, market-rate apartment model elsewhere Downtown.
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I'd actually rather see market rate apartments only. Dominium needs to take a break.
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^ Oops... yes, Dominium, I'd like to see what they could do in other parts of the city.... maybe an artists lofts project in one of the vacant schools. Of course, if a difficult property needs LIHTC to make it a go they'd be more than welcome back downtown in my book.
Sherman was the other developer from Minneapolis... I think they do both subsidized projects like Station Plaza and market-rate like Syndicate Trust. (You, too, can buy Unit 1604 for $589,000! http://www.sherman-associates.com/syndi ... s/77/1604/)
Sherman was the other developer from Minneapolis... I think they do both subsidized projects like Station Plaza and market-rate like Syndicate Trust. (You, too, can buy Unit 1604 for $589,000! http://www.sherman-associates.com/syndi ... s/77/1604/)
Huh? Between the Arcade, Leather Trades, and Metropolitan Lofts they've completed some of the more ambitious major redevelopments recently. If anything it'd be great to see them ramp up, not take a break.downtown2007 wrote:Dominium needs to take a break.
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What I am saying is the downtown area may be over saturated with Low Income artist lofts. I'd rather see more market rate high end rentals in the short term.
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^That type of rental just screams new high rise construction though. Someone is going to build condos/luxury apartments near Busch Stadium on one of the empty parking lots (not even talking about BPV or Cordish here) and strike it big. Just a matter of which developer pulls the trigger first.
^ I can see Koman pulling trigger on a mid rise mixed use near Busch Stadium if successful on their next project (hopfully a nice slender tower even if it is 8-10 to add some change in height to the Cupples warehouse)
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Probably the mid- to late-1980s. But that was office development as opposed to residential.roger wyoming II wrote:I'm wondering when the last time downtown saw such interest from outside developers
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Well the market is saying that there aren't enough subsidized (not really low-income) artist lofts... 100% occupancy at Leather Trades and Arcade, as well as Metropolitan in Grand Center, shows the appeal. But I know what you're saying; it would be nice to get more market rate units to fill up some key properties and get demand and rental rates to where new build seems less risky; maybe instead of 200 subsidized units and 82 market rate ones which the Arcade has, a challenging building like the Butler Bros. could be the reverse.downtown2007 wrote:What I am saying is the downtown area may be over saturated with Low Income artist lofts. I'd rather see more market rate high end rentals in the short term.
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Like the Drury proposal for the Landing?chaifetz10 wrote:^That type of rental just screams new high rise construction though. Someone is going to build condos/luxury apartments near Busch Stadium on one of the empty parking lots (not even talking about BPV or Cordish here) and strike it big. Just a matter of which developer pulls the trigger first.
-RBB
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^Yes. But unless you know something I don't, this project has stalled.
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Sounds like the HUDZ hearing today on the Koman and Gill projects were interesting with some push-back on the incentives; sounds like they'll come back again to discuss more and with more detail. tbh, I'm a bit skeptical about generous benefits for the Koman plan -- I'm just not sure how that spec office plan fits into a coherent economic development strategy -- but I'd probably give more leeway for historic rehabs like the Union Trust.
To me, it seems like 82-market rate units - completely leased in a few months - is enough to validate there is market-rate demand downtown. Brandonview, LLC has been demonstrating and asserting this for awhile now.
It's time to pull the trigger on a few major new, from-the-ground-up, market-rate project. They could be low and mid-rise infills.
Downtown West and north of Washington Avenue downtown could certainly use some quality in-fill activity.
It's time to pull the trigger on a few major new, from-the-ground-up, market-rate project. They could be low and mid-rise infills.
Downtown West and north of Washington Avenue downtown could certainly use some quality in-fill activity.
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Here's a question to anyone?
Will we ever see a mid rise/high rise building boom in downtown?
When i look at our skyline theres more than potential for it to become a top 5 best skylines in the entire country however theres so much that lacks downtown
I feel number one theres no new construction what so ever happening downtown everything continues to be historic buildings being converted which is great i love that however is there anyway that our leaders could start incorporating new construction as well?
Theres so much that lacks in our downtown and one gapping hole is the lack of new apartment construction i see cities throughout our country doing this however our downtown has nothing happening and i know for a fact not everyone wants to live in a old historic building but i feel like developers and possibly leaders aren't giving people in the region choices for a real downtown environment.
You can incorporate apartments hotels and offices together which seem to be the hot deal now a days but I'm not finding that concept happening here at all.
How are we to attract new business if we aren't building anything?
I firmly don't believe the concept of rehabbing every old building then start new construction cause that could take another 2 decades to happen and about time that happens then the one already rehabbed would need to be rehabbed again.
Are our leaders being too co dependent on Ballpark Village Phase 2 to get off the ground?
I love what the city has done and is slowly becoming we have a lot of neighborhoods that are seeing lots of investment as we see to the south and west parts of the city accept for our north side which remains to be scarred.
Is downtown anywhere close to being on the verge of a real infinite building boom?
I would love to see a healthy amount of mid rise high rises with a new tallest potentially in the mix
Anyones thoughts??
Will we ever see a mid rise/high rise building boom in downtown?
When i look at our skyline theres more than potential for it to become a top 5 best skylines in the entire country however theres so much that lacks downtown
I feel number one theres no new construction what so ever happening downtown everything continues to be historic buildings being converted which is great i love that however is there anyway that our leaders could start incorporating new construction as well?
Theres so much that lacks in our downtown and one gapping hole is the lack of new apartment construction i see cities throughout our country doing this however our downtown has nothing happening and i know for a fact not everyone wants to live in a old historic building but i feel like developers and possibly leaders aren't giving people in the region choices for a real downtown environment.
You can incorporate apartments hotels and offices together which seem to be the hot deal now a days but I'm not finding that concept happening here at all.
How are we to attract new business if we aren't building anything?
I firmly don't believe the concept of rehabbing every old building then start new construction cause that could take another 2 decades to happen and about time that happens then the one already rehabbed would need to be rehabbed again.
Are our leaders being too co dependent on Ballpark Village Phase 2 to get off the ground?
I love what the city has done and is slowly becoming we have a lot of neighborhoods that are seeing lots of investment as we see to the south and west parts of the city accept for our north side which remains to be scarred.
Is downtown anywhere close to being on the verge of a real infinite building boom?
I would love to see a healthy amount of mid rise high rises with a new tallest potentially in the mix
Anyones thoughts??
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I'm not sure what you'd consider to be a "boom" but I can see a fair number of new construction mid-rises and small towers in the not-too-distant future if all these redevelopments continue to move forward.... change can happen quickly when it truly begins to take off.
Maybe we're a few years behind peers like Detroit and Cleveland, where mid-rise construction is underway downtown and even towers are in the pipeline. I think if we can sustain upper-end rents with some of these new rehabs coming online, it'll happen at some point.
Edit... need to add that more downtown jobs will also have to get in the mix beyond residential gains for this to happen.
Maybe we're a few years behind peers like Detroit and Cleveland, where mid-rise construction is underway downtown and even towers are in the pipeline. I think if we can sustain upper-end rents with some of these new rehabs coming online, it'll happen at some point.
Edit... need to add that more downtown jobs will also have to get in the mix beyond residential gains for this to happen.
*sigh*roger wyoming II wrote:Maybe we're a few years behind peers like Detroit and Cleveland, where mid-rise construction is underway downtown and even towers are in the pipeline. I think if we can sustain upper-end rents with some of these new rehabs coming online, it'll happen at some point.
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^ I think that's not an accurate or applicable comparison since here there is also the CWE and Clayton areas which creates apples to oranges situations .
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The surface parking lot across from Busch at 500 S Broadway is now in the hands of a Nashville developer that is very active building downtown towers there. I don't know what thread it's on, but someone hear mentioned that something was in the works for that lot. Stay tuned, as they say!
With this recent barrage of announcements, are there really any major buildings left in the ??? category? The only one I can think of is the MX Library. I suppose nothing specific has been announced for the Chemical, either. Which I thought would be one of the first ones to be redeveloped because it seemingly has so much potential.
We're almost out of the hole when it comes to boarded up buildings. By 2020, people may have little to complain about.
Then it will be on to Phase II of revitalizing DT: turning the myriad of surface parking lots into something attractive.
We're almost out of the hole when it comes to boarded up buildings. By 2020, people may have little to complain about.
Then it will be on to Phase II of revitalizing DT: turning the myriad of surface parking lots into something attractive.
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^ Over on the ghost building thread I had 505 Washington as something in addition to the Mercantile Library that still needed a new life and appears to have no pending plan from the Biz Journal's original list. We can also add the large Stouffer/Millennium hotel and I suppose you could call the Orpheum Theater and 201 N Fourth as major buildings. Maybe the old Mauruzio's location that Heller used to own? And I guess One ATT threatens to be a ghost. But I think that's pretty much it east of Tucker. in Downtown West we'd still have the Butler Bros. and a couple other sizeable warehouses.
Tallying up the overall square footage, it would be a fraction of just the beginning of the year!
Tallying up the overall square footage, it would be a fraction of just the beginning of the year!
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It will be interesting to see if Centene's new Clayton plans and the other new Clayton developments in the works affect Downtown. Since Centene is essentially buying up most of what is left of easy to develop land in Clayton, this could create opportunities for Downtown later on. Clayton is very landlocked and becoming more so with each new project, whereas Downtown has almost limitless room to grow. And don't forget that with each new project, more and more of the powers that be in Clayton will complain about new traffic, etc. It doesn't take much for some in Clayton to get anti-development attitudes really fast.
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^ I guess my immediate concern with Centene's project is if they lure another company out of downtown into leased space like they did Armstrong Teasdale with their first tower.... that was a huge blow for downtown. But I see where you're coming from.
Also, I wouldn't be surprised to see a number of folks choose to live downtown (and elsewhere in the city) and commute to Centene.
Also, I wouldn't be surprised to see a number of folks choose to live downtown (and elsewhere in the city) and commute to Centene.
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Well lets hope the new Cnetene towers don't poach from downtown and actually find a company from outside of the region to relocate here its clear downtown won't be getting a new office high-rise anytime soon.
On the a somber note Cargill has decided to keep its Wichita HQ in Wichita..
The Eagle reported that the Minneapolis, Minn.-based company was looking to move its headquarters. Its building on Main Street is home to four headquarters for the company, including its beef business; its turkey and cooked meat business, which includes deli meats; its value-added protein services, including its North American egg business; and its food distribution.
The cities that were in the running for a possible move were Denver unknown city in Texas and Kansas City.
I would have thought St.Louis would have tried to lure them here but nothing.
Anyways good for Wichita
Centene is good for St.Louis and the region and its great to have them here and committed
On the a somber note Cargill has decided to keep its Wichita HQ in Wichita..
The Eagle reported that the Minneapolis, Minn.-based company was looking to move its headquarters. Its building on Main Street is home to four headquarters for the company, including its beef business; its turkey and cooked meat business, which includes deli meats; its value-added protein services, including its North American egg business; and its food distribution.
The cities that were in the running for a possible move were Denver unknown city in Texas and Kansas City.
I would have thought St.Louis would have tried to lure them here but nothing.
Anyways good for Wichita
Centene is good for St.Louis and the region and its great to have them here and committed