vollum wrote:I thought Cargill's headquarters were in the Twin Cities.
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Tend to believe that any thriving CBD will have new class A space periodically introduced now and then. Right now for the St Louis region you will see that coming in Clayton between Centene and the family behind Apex Oil. It seems that CORTEX/Wexford is on the cusp of announcing a major expansion or ground breaking that hopefully will means new space at US Metals or even that rendered tower for CORTEX East.
But Downtown unfortunately has at least three grand visions going nowhere for various reasons from BPV to Bottleworks to McKee's west downtown/gateway mall bookend tower. At the moment I do hold out hope that Koman might be working towards something or another project for Cupples that would include new class A office based on some of the comments above. Koman seems the type of developer who can bring in a client or tenant.
But Downtown unfortunately has at least three grand visions going nowhere for various reasons from BPV to Bottleworks to McKee's west downtown/gateway mall bookend tower. At the moment I do hold out hope that Koman might be working towards something or another project for Cupples that would include new class A office based on some of the comments above. Koman seems the type of developer who can bring in a client or tenant.
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^ Yeah, I would think that if capable Koman is actively pursuing an office development they have a prospective tenant involved.... doesn't seem like spec office would work DT.
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Im going to guess its the Wichita HQ...moorlander wrote:vollum wrote:I thought Cargill's headquarters were in the Twin Cities.
You'll find it in the Wichita Biz Journal
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Cargill plans to move its Wichita headquarters – but where?
Cargill is looking to move its Wichita headquarters, but whether that’s within downtown, where it already is, or outside of it or even outside of Kansas is unclear....
The company, which is headquartered in Minneapolis, has its Wichita headquarters in a 110,000-square-foot, 10-story building at 151 N. Main.
“This is probably the classic office building configuration,” Martin says.
He says that’s not a good thing for the company going forward.
“If you look at the marketplace in terms of people, especially young professionals coming into the marketplace for careers, less and less of them are attracted to traditional office space and office-type buildings,” Martin says. “We’re taking that into consideration to attract millennials and younger people.”
Cargill has 900 employees downtown, including some in leased space at the Ruffin Building at Douglas and Broadway....
Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/news/business/biz ... rylink=cpy
Cargill is looking to move its Wichita headquarters, but whether that’s within downtown, where it already is, or outside of it or even outside of Kansas is unclear....
The company, which is headquartered in Minneapolis, has its Wichita headquarters in a 110,000-square-foot, 10-story building at 151 N. Main.
“This is probably the classic office building configuration,” Martin says.
He says that’s not a good thing for the company going forward.
“If you look at the marketplace in terms of people, especially young professionals coming into the marketplace for careers, less and less of them are attracted to traditional office space and office-type buildings,” Martin says. “We’re taking that into consideration to attract millennials and younger people.”
Cargill has 900 employees downtown, including some in leased space at the Ruffin Building at Douglas and Broadway....
Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/news/business/biz ... rylink=cpy
Yeah, the actual headquarters are in the Minneapolis suburb of Minnetonka in a very sparsely populated, but very expensive, area near Lake Minnetonka on an old estate. It's pretty unique. They just recently built this big, nice looking office complex in the last five years or so on some infill development in the Hopkins/ St. Louis Park area (inner ring, old street car suburbs). This houses alot of their headquarters office staff. It's not Downtown unfortunately, it's about 5 miles southwest, but at least they didn't build it out on the urban fringe. There's a busy bike path that goes right next to it; I bike by it almost weekly.vollum wrote:I thought Cargill's headquarters were in the Twin Cities.
As the tech industry continues to grow, I think downtown will continue to benefit. More announcements for some of the remaining vacant buildings are coming soon. Traditional towers will continue to retrofit suites to attract younger companies such as Shipworks at Gateway Tower. The "traditional" firms like PWC are even looking to follow their lead.
Downtown is just SOOOO much cooler than Clayton. Whether it's the historic architecture, density of loft/apartments in the CBD core as compared to claytons, the parks, museums, sports, hotels, etc. Moving to Clayton is not "progress" or a cool trend. It's straight up 1997 style behavior. I almost think companies should be shamed from moving to Clayton. They should have to take down their alleged "diversity" initiatives on their websites.
Yep, I said it, if you move to Clayton or the county, your company is basically racist and not accessible to a diverse workforce. I mean, i don't really think that, but come on, moving to the suburbs?! What other city in the country still has this happening? Why is this region so behind the times with this?
Downtown is just SOOOO much cooler than Clayton. Whether it's the historic architecture, density of loft/apartments in the CBD core as compared to claytons, the parks, museums, sports, hotels, etc. Moving to Clayton is not "progress" or a cool trend. It's straight up 1997 style behavior. I almost think companies should be shamed from moving to Clayton. They should have to take down their alleged "diversity" initiatives on their websites.
Yep, I said it, if you move to Clayton or the county, your company is basically racist and not accessible to a diverse workforce. I mean, i don't really think that, but come on, moving to the suburbs?! What other city in the country still has this happening? Why is this region so behind the times with this?
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^ we're not the only city where moves are happening on a decent basis out to the suburbs, (although I think our pace of move-outs has slowed) but we are a rare breed where it is happening in an environment where rents and occupancy are so much lower downtown and where move-ins are few and far between.
but I do agree with you that things seem like they may be changing here for the better.
but I do agree with you that things seem like they may be changing here for the better.
Care to elaborate? Either what vacant buildings or what companies are planning to come downtown?jcity wrote:As the tech industry continues to grow, I think downtown will continue to benefit. More announcements for some of the remaining vacant buildings are coming soon. Traditional towers will continue to retrofit suites to attract younger companies such as Shipworks at Gateway Tower. The "traditional" firms like PWC are even looking to follow their lead.
Downtown is just SOOOO much cooler than Clayton. Whether it's the historic architecture, density of loft/apartments in the CBD core as compared to claytons, the parks, museums, sports, hotels, etc. Moving to Clayton is not "progress" or a cool trend. It's straight up 1997 style behavior. I almost think companies should be shamed from moving to Clayton. They should have to take down their alleged "diversity" initiatives on their websites.
Yep, I said it, if you move to Clayton or the county, your company is basically racist and not accessible to a diverse workforce. I mean, i don't really think that, but come on, moving to the suburbs?! What other city in the country still has this happening? Why is this region so behind the times with this?
^ Curious also as their seems to be a fair share of single line comments, teaser of forthcoming projects downtown lately or least that is my impression. Heck, almost can put some hope behind Slay's tip of the iceberg tweet and will now look at the BPV thread again.
I feel your frustration jcity, but as far as I can tell, just about every major city has a secondary central business district (if not third or fourth). And major employers across the country are consistently looking to move jobs outside of primary CBD's for tax incentives, lower rents (the latter of which doesn't really apply in St. Louis' case), or some combination thereof. It is pretty 1987, 1997 and 2007, but it's still happening today all over the country unfortunately. Not that that makes it okay, but it's happening.jcity wrote:I mean, i don't really think that, but come on, moving to the suburbs?! What other city in the country still has this happening? Why is this region so behind the times with this?
Downtown is 1,000x cooler, more charming, interesting, entertaining, exciting, culturally rich, etc.... but in many ways Clayton is at least urban. It's dense, walkable, has easy access to transit (as good if not better than much of the CWE and Downtown West at least in terms of fixed rail). Since Cross County you can't really say that a company located in Downtown Clayton isn't accessible to a diverse workforce. It's not perfect, but it's encouraging dense, walkable residential and commercial development that you don't get in Chesterfield Valley, the 270 corridor, or St. Chucks - or really anywhere else outside of the Central Corridor.
Does a company moving to the 'burbs from Downtown suck? Yes, absolutely and companies should be admonished for it. Do I give the Central Corridor a bit of a pass when it comes to where a company chooses to relocate (as opposed to some surface parking, highway frontage road greenfield crap)? Yes.
Alex said in the chat yesterday "Hearing of two office buildings in the works. I'll assume they have tenants looking/signed.".dredger wrote:^ Curious also as their seems to be a fair share of single line comments, teaser of forthcoming projects downtown lately or least that is my impression. Heck, almost can put some hope behind Slay's tip of the iceberg tweet and will now look at the BPV thread again.
I've personally heard that Jack Dorsey is planning something BIG in St. Louis, outside of the Square jobs, and the rumor is that it would be located downtown. Wouldn't it be crazy if Twitter relocated in the Railway Exchange from San Francisco to reduce costs now that they have gone public, maybe with a new high-rise component and use the RX as a data center. Some interesting things could happen. I'm sure the executives would stay in the Bay Area, but many of the back office jobs could be relocated to St. Louis. I'm sure the spin off redevelopment would be crazy. Better yet, It would be even better if a new high rise with Twitter on it were located at BPV, the views from Busch would be great. This is all speculation of course, but the idea that we may see two new high-rises pop up downtown with tenants lined up would definitely change the narrative for downtown jobs. My only hope is they would be large enough to make an impact on the skyline.
Thanks Goat, Railway Exchange seems to be ready made for a huge tech/data center/residential make over with ready made ground floor retail. At same time, I don't believe you could do anything else in the Cupples warehouse district without new construction. I don't think downtown go wrong if you can to see rehab from Jeff arms to chemical to RX north of market and some new construction along/off Clark whether it be BPV phase II, or cupples warehouse surface lots, so on
Plenty of good sites for a tower Downtown. In my opinion one of the best (along with Washington & Broadway) is the Mike Shannon's building - which just happened to go on sale.
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I've heard of possibly two office buildings. I haven't heard of a new high rise, though.
No progressive city ever waits to fill up older office buildings before new space is built. That didn't even happen in downtown St. Louis in during the 80's boom - which was the last boom downtown saw of new office space. It doesn't happen in Clayton either.addxb2 wrote:I want BPV as much as anyone on here, but lets focus on dt north of market. We need to fill the vacant space we have before we demand new space be built. That eastern stretch of Olive looks worse than that empty parking lot. 1000 employees around there would mean far more to downtown than 900 employee at BPV.
Trust me, there's empty space all around downtown and peripheral business districts in Houston, Dallas and Atlanta, yet, new buildings are in the works for all of them. Some of which are spec developments.
St. Louis does need to work to get its downtown vacancy rates down, however, the rates shouldn't have to drop below 10% - especially for Class A - in order to get some new Class A projects going.
Getting going with a nice - 15-18-story 150,000-225,000 sf building - would be great.
^ Would like to see that 15-18 story happen for downtown before CortexEast as the one rendered on Vande if Wexford/US Metals doesn't break ground. My train of thought is some new class A space is needed for downtown and at some point US Metals site will break ground on new space so rather not see CortexEast tower to be the first place for new Class A in the city. I can see it fitting in well on the surface lot to the east of Busch Stadium being discussed and having some nice new mid rise, mixed use infill going into surface lots along Clark, Cupples warehouse lot that Koman is apparently looking at and part of Old Muni courts development coming to mind.
BPV getting new class A tower would work if we know a new residential tower was also coming in the mix. Cringe on thought that Alex heard about a parking garage with some rooftop seats for BPV at one point as he noted in his chat talk Friday. Talk about a very bad takeoff on Wrigley and a bad outcome for St. Louis City.
BPV getting new class A tower would work if we know a new residential tower was also coming in the mix. Cringe on thought that Alex heard about a parking garage with some rooftop seats for BPV at one point as he noted in his chat talk Friday. Talk about a very bad takeoff on Wrigley and a bad outcome for St. Louis City.
Stadium East, Stadium West, and now Stadium Central Garage, perfect!
Seriously though, it seems Cordish has much more expertise and interest in developing residential or hotel than spec commercial space. For that matter, have they developed any commercial space that isn't already leased to a single large tenant (i.e. H&R Block in KC, or what would have been Centene in St. Louis)?
I have no faith in Cordish doing anything of value. But if there is a project on what was supposed to be BPV, I think it'll be residential (like in KC) or hotel (like in Arlington).
Seriously though, it seems Cordish has much more expertise and interest in developing residential or hotel than spec commercial space. For that matter, have they developed any commercial space that isn't already leased to a single large tenant (i.e. H&R Block in KC, or what would have been Centene in St. Louis)?
I have no faith in Cordish doing anything of value. But if there is a project on what was supposed to be BPV, I think it'll be residential (like in KC) or hotel (like in Arlington).
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^ Cordish has done multi-tenant commercial office in Baltimore, not sure about elsewhere.
^^ dredger, I'm kind of torn on where I'd like to see our hypothetical office tower in our current downtown environment.... visually, I think a tower south of Market (whether in or near BPV) would help balance out the classic view of downtown from the east riverfront but in terms of adding the most value I'd like to see it in the core CBD. Practical candidates imo would be the surface lot on Olive across from RR/X, the surface lot across from One ATT Center at 10th & Pine or on one of the many surface lots along 11th.
I'd be equally fine with a solid mid-rise building that would bring as much square footage as a more slender tower... something that would fit well on Wash Ave around the newly purchased 1706 Washington Building (I think the new KC owners got the parking lots on both sides while Jump or whateverhisnameis kept the one on the north side of Wash Ave.) or again on one of the spacious lots along 11th. Or behind Lammert for T-Rex 2.0.
^^ dredger, I'm kind of torn on where I'd like to see our hypothetical office tower in our current downtown environment.... visually, I think a tower south of Market (whether in or near BPV) would help balance out the classic view of downtown from the east riverfront but in terms of adding the most value I'd like to see it in the core CBD. Practical candidates imo would be the surface lot on Olive across from RR/X, the surface lot across from One ATT Center at 10th & Pine or on one of the many surface lots along 11th.
I'd be equally fine with a solid mid-rise building that would bring as much square footage as a more slender tower... something that would fit well on Wash Ave around the newly purchased 1706 Washington Building (I think the new KC owners got the parking lots on both sides while Jump or whateverhisnameis kept the one on the north side of Wash Ave.) or again on one of the spacious lots along 11th. Or behind Lammert for T-Rex 2.0.
Brief but good look at how Milwaukee's downtown development is raising property values...
Downtown gets big property value boost in 2016 thanks to new development: Slideshow
http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/bl ... -2016.html
New developments brought $130 million in new tax base to Milwaukee’s downtown area, and values of some existing offices went up significantly when the city released its 2016 property assessments this month....
Not sure what the actual tax revenue will be from that growing tax base, but this is definitely what I hope we can see here. I'd also like to see a fair program that re-invests some of that added tax revenue back into more projects downtown (and creating additional tax base) while helping the neighborhoods with the rest.
Downtown gets big property value boost in 2016 thanks to new development: Slideshow
http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/bl ... -2016.html
New developments brought $130 million in new tax base to Milwaukee’s downtown area, and values of some existing offices went up significantly when the city released its 2016 property assessments this month....
Not sure what the actual tax revenue will be from that growing tax base, but this is definitely what I hope we can see here. I'd also like to see a fair program that re-invests some of that added tax revenue back into more projects downtown (and creating additional tax base) while helping the neighborhoods with the rest.
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^You're quite adept at showing us how our peer cities' DT's are doing via links....I guess that provides a benefit besides increasing my jealousy...I don't know. Don't really care about them.
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^ I care about em cause they show how things are going in other peer cities and perhaps provide us with a suggestion or two .... in this case, assessing how downtown property values and tax base are doing. Unlike Milwaukee, where they have an annual report, I don't think the public really has a clue so it's really hard to know whether we're giving out the right amount of incentives for all the projects that are happening.
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I know the feeling. Nothing worse then seeing there are updates in this thread only for the post to turn out to be how awesome other cities are doing. Wonder if we could get a "State of peer cities" threadsirshankalot wrote:^You're quite adept at showing us how our peer cities' DT's are doing via links....I guess that provides a benefit besides increasing my jealousy...I don't know. Don't really care about them.
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It's that time of year again... FIRST Robotics!
There's been a lot of change since their visit last Spring.... Blues Museum, added restaurants at M/X and others, Arcade-Wright is finished off, some progress with Arch related work, including the Ely Luther Square re-opening, etc.. I can't recall for sure, but I don't think Star Clipper was even open when FIRST was here last year. Anyway, good progress and there will be even more for next Spring, unfortunately they'll be moving on after the good five-year run here.
There's been a lot of change since their visit last Spring.... Blues Museum, added restaurants at M/X and others, Arcade-Wright is finished off, some progress with Arch related work, including the Ely Luther Square re-opening, etc.. I can't recall for sure, but I don't think Star Clipper was even open when FIRST was here last year. Anyway, good progress and there will be even more for next Spring, unfortunately they'll be moving on after the good five-year run here.
^ As for a year from now, downtown visitors will finally be able to access the Arch grounds again, which will be a big relief for everyone I think. And hopefully Union Station will be underway with their plans, and perhaps have a portion open. And if we're lucky, visitors even will be able to see some new construction along with the various rehab work.