urbanSTL

Downtown seems to be on the cusp of several announcements including the following from my understanding reading the various threads anything I'm missing?

Any thoughts on how soon some of these get announced, ballpark dates or timeline? Speaking of ballpark, I specifically excluded BPV phase II because everything else listed seems to be legitimately moving forward, whether closing on property, parking agreements, etc.

- Jefferson Arms under contract
- Chemical building under contract, Gils plans
- LHM Union Station next phase
- Cupples 10, Koman
- Surface lot east of Busch Stadium, anyone with any more info?
- Gils Botique Hotel, when will rehab/construction start?
- 2nd downtown boutique hotel. Can't recall developer

^ I'd add the 1706 Washington redevelopment to that list of significant projects that could get underway in the next year or two. (Also the tech-oriented redevelopment of the old Metro HQ by Spinnaker and the Globe Building are perhaps more under-the-radar but nevertheless hold exciting potential.)

My understanding is Union Station should begin in earnest soon and I wouldn't doubt Hotel Saint Louis (Union Trust) would get underway this year as well with actual work. The others I suspect we could hear more details in the coming months but work probably won't begin until next year.

I agree that downtown seems on the cusp of some solidifying momentum... we've had some progress but if we can get most of these projects moving forward I think we'd have much more tangible excitement about downtown's recovery.

It seems like downtown has been on the "verge" of a breakthrough for the last 10-15 years.

I've worked downtown for the past 9 years and I don't think I've seen it look less populated than I do now...at least the CBD. Even at lunch time the streets feel a little lonely and much less crowded than in years past.

I know things are happening, but when do we reach critical mass? It seems one project is announced while something else closes, so there is no net win.

I look at Cortex, which is exploding and creating something pretty cool, and I wonder why this isn't happening downtown. I guess the #1 reason is leadership (duh). I heard Dennis Lower speak at an event last year and he said something like they created something special, asked for rents comparable to Clayton and got them, (i wish i could remember his exact words because I'm not relaying the message correctly)...people are clamoring to get to Cortex because they created an environment and energy that people want to be a part of, and are charging a premium to be a part of it, and if you don't want to be apart, then bye....who is doing that downtown?

Downtown looks awful right now as well. Stuff that was built in the past few years are empty and full of weeds (the plaza at MX at Locust and 6th for instance), sidewalks are busted all over, everything just looks tired away from Wash. Ave. Mismatched sidewalks and streets, 4th street should be beautiful because of the hotels, etc. but it's gross.

This all sounds terribly negative, I do like working downtown and do think good things are happening, but I'd be lying if I thought it didn't feel like DT was on life support.

I'm tired of hearing "downtown is on the cusp" because I've been hearing it forever and it is just marketing speak at this point.

We need to find a way to get over the hump....or i'm just grumpy today.

^ downtown is going to be "on the verge" for our entire lifetime. Once we reach one milestone we'll be "on the verge" of the next...

Working downtown for the past 3 years, I haven't seen much overall change (positive or negative) from my perspective. There are a half dozen blocks or so that are healthy and the rest is depopulated and depressing. I am sure this can change but even with just 5 or so projects in the works, we need many more buildings coming online, especially with jobs depleting so quickly.

The startups and the occasional residential conversion are nice, but we need a lot more to improve downtown. I think we can consider downtown "healthy" when we see either: (1) new construction (probably residential) of urban form [i.e. NOT BPV] in/near the CBD or (2) significantly large projects/renovations on the periphery of downtown (south, north, Downtown West).

Downtown has absolutely come a long way, but there is a sense of back tracking...at least in my opinion.

Downtown doesn't feel like a City priority...and I think with Slay leaving, he's checked out....which has been obvious for a few years now.

The announcement of the redevelopment of the Lasalle was big for me since I see that building daily and Broadway and Olive should be a bustling intersection, but it's just not. When Macy's closed it also seemed to make a big difference on foot traffic around this area, obviously.

The recent announcements are promising, but I'm tentatively optimistic. How many owners and different plans have been thrown out there for the Chemical Building over the past few years that have not materialized? Announcements are great, but we need to get things built....I sort of thought the MX would be great once it was finished, but the side along Locust is a huge dead zone. There is no programming for the plaza and there are huge weeds growing in the planters. It's just a bad look and kind of a metaphor for downtown development...something nice is built, but we don't maintain it.

I love working downtown and I lived down there a few summers ago... but it's hard not to feel discouraged about its future when you look at DTat face value. Aside from our amazing architecture (which granted, is a big deal) and a few select blocks, downtown is tired and run down.

I know the money isn't there, but I'd be curious what doing some basic maintenance things would do for the image of downtown.

Not trying to be a big negative nancy because I do see good things, but we've got to start putting a better face on DT.

olvidarte wrote:It seems like downtown has been on the "verge" of a breakthrough for the last 10-15 years.

I've worked downtown for the past 9 years and I don't think I've seen it look less populated than I do now...at least the CBD. Even at lunch time the streets feel a little lonely and much less crowded than in years past.

I know things are happening, but when do we reach critical mass? It seems one project is announced while something else closes, so there is no net win.

To me, it all started ten years ago with the demise of the May Co. IMO downtown still hasn't recovered from the loss of thousands of employees who worked at May's HQ and from the activity provided by the department store itself.

I got the sense that there was a pause last year and its now getting unpaused. The reason for the pause is possibly a Ferguson effect along with crime concerns, and if that could trigger a demand change away from urban areas. The other possibility is the Ikea store opening could focus development elsewhere along with the CWE strength that is likely a detriment to downtown.

Is there a point some point down the line that the CWE almost has to be considered as the de facto downtown?

^ That makes sense as to why it doesn't appear to be that much change in growth. In that its not all in one area, but in a number of pockets overall. Does seem to show that any foot traffic increase only goes so far from a new development, which would explain why it doesn't seem to be more lively, since new development could be too far to have a noticeable impace.

The scene at the Navy band playing downtown right now (5/11 at noon) at OPOP is quite remarkable. Sauce on the Side has really activated the OPOP space, and there is a lot of foot traffic at the lunch hour rush. If there were a few more buildings activated in this area (e.g. Chemical building), this part of downtown would be amazing.

Sauce has been great and Yiro/Gyro in the old Hamilton Jeweler's spot also has helped. Getting the Chemical back on line certainly would be nice and complete the turn-around of once vacant buildings. From there it would be just a matter of increasing the occupancy of buildings in the surrounding area.

Could we really have the JA and RX under construction soon?

I just fainted


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Heck yes!!!!!! HUGE NEWS. HUUUUUGE (trump voice)


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I remember what the 90s were like! Today downtown is in a much better state and with the many announcements and plans for downtown things will only get better
We'll see a much more vibrant downtown with or without BPV which is think is best for all of St.Louis.
As we all know businesses come and go and the successful ones will stay for years and decades
90s were terrifying today yes theres crime but i'll take today anyday out of the old downtown.
I'll be upfront and honest i felt like back then we were doing enough but now i realize i think our leaders are doing what they can to make downtown progressive along with rebuilding a city that has been depleted by population loss thats a lot to maintain and rebuild.
We have a long ways to go but i'll take today over when downtown reeked of piss..
I also feel the energy like things are going to explode..
in 5 or so years we'll witness a completely different all around St.Louis
we're all in it together.

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^ RW, I don't have paid access to Biz Journal article on downtown boutique hotels but believe the title is a fair question. Can downtown support 5 boutique hotels? Two already up and running as well as three that are proposed.

http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/prin ... otels.html

Who would these hotels cater to? One factor that I wonder might play into this, is the starting up of some of the river cruises, since that might add a larger tourist footprint.