urbanSTL

^ I agree with that.... however, I don't think the city has given corporations as much of a return in exchange for the extra tax... we're not hustling as hard and creating as much of an attractive environment as a lot of peers.

Just a tough situation all around for downtown these days.

This may not be an apples to apples comparison, but why is Cortex doing so well? Wouldn't the earnings tax be an issue here as well, yet people want to be there. What are they doing that downtown isn't? What kind of story is cortex telling that is resonating?

Again, may not be a fair comparison, but I sort of feel Cortex shows that people will move, or consider, locating in the City, earnings tax or no earnings tax.

^ right. part of appeal of cortex is that eds & meds corridors are hot spots in general nationally (and being in the CWE is a plus locally) and part of it is they have a clear vision and capable team. City government has no real plan for Downtown and Downtown STL isn't a high-capacity organization compared to many of its peer groups. Downtown is just kind of on its own with some good things going on but no coherent plan/vision being executed.

STLrainbow wrote:^ right. part of appeal of cortex is that eds & meds corridors are hot spots in general nationally (and being in the CWE is a plus locally) and part of it is they have a clear vision and capable team. City government has no real plan for Downtown and Downtown STL isn't a high-capacity organization compared to many of its peer groups. Downtown is just kind of on its own with some good things going on but no coherent plan/vision being executed.

I agree. But it seems to me there is another thing going on that is also a strong factor. Very few people in this metro region, including those who make the really big/important investment location decisions, really think of the region as being one place. So, what may be in the best long term interest of the region as a whole just does not get factored into decisions.

vollum wrote:

STLrainbow wrote:^ right. part of appeal of cortex is that eds & meds corridors are hot spots in general nationally (and being in the CWE is a plus locally) and part of it is they have a clear vision and capable team. City government has no real plan for Downtown and Downtown STL isn't a high-capacity organization compared to many of its peer groups. Downtown is just kind of on its own with some good things going on but no coherent plan/vision being executed.

I agree. But it seems to me there is another thing going on that is also a strong factor. Very few people in this metro region, including those who make the really big/important investment location decisions, really think of the region as being one place. So, what may be in the best long term interest of the region as a whole just does not get factored into decisions.

I don't think Vollum could have done a better job of explaining corporate leadership in the region. The companies that are already in the region and doing well & expanding are already in St. Louis as far as their concern.

I also think you have to qualify CORTEX with the reality that to date it has mostly filled built space, had knocked down a lot of industrial space and but has not built much space outside of tech shop and what BJC/Wash U built near Boyle. IKEA is nice but you don't want CORTEX to succeed at big box stores. Essentially what has happen downtown but with jobs instead of residents.

To me COTREX is still one step away from tipping point. Tipping point will be in when CORTEX/Wexford break ground on $140 million
infill development & announce Microsoft as next major tenant of another space. CORTEX will be hugely successful when you see the CORTEX East tower rising on Vande.

^ Obviously Cortex has a ways to go but since @4240 has opened it has landed more relocations from the county than downtown... AB Mauri, AAI Pharma hqs, etc. as well as attracting a presence from a number of large, county-based firms that I don't believe are downtown at all. Also interesting to note Bull Moose is going into Grand Center rather than downtown. A number of Metro East companies have relocated to downtown recently, but I can only think of Momentum as having come from the County, and that is a new York firm.

Of course Square already is in Cortex, too, and if the reports in the media of Microsoft coming as well that will be further proof that downtown is struggling to be the clear destination of choice for new to the city business. (although there are rumors a major tech company will be choosing downtown for a large presence.)

The question might really end up being asked is weather or not downtown is such or if it has moved? And is the sort of dynamic that is occurring with central corridor where the region's "center" as it were is not well defined and could vary on definition. And is this a common situation overall where it seems the center shifts?

Podcast discussion on what effect Clayton development is having on Downtown. This is related to the print story appearing in the Post this Sunday:

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/colu ... 047b9.html

^ ha, sorry about that! I don't want to say too much to get hopes up, but there is talk of a sizable commitment coming to downtown.... if it's true, it'd be interesting to know if this is helping spur some of the recent redevelopment interest in Downtown West.

Maybe one take away - Germans/Central Europeans are good for the city (think Nestle-Purina, Bull Moose & now Sigma) and Brazilians are bad (think AB).

Some comments from the new chief overseeing Sigma St. Louis operations. Also nice to hear some corporate leadership talk about connectivity on a global scale. Lambert desperately needs that corporate support.

http://www.stltoday.com/business/column ... 59df3.html

St. Louis is MilliporeSigma’s largest employment base, with about 2,000 people. “We have no intention of changing St. Louis as an epicenter for this business,” Batra said.

Employment here is roughly the same as before the merger, he said. A Millipore research and sales team in St. Charles County was moved to Sigma’s offices in St. Louis, and a few top-level headquarters jobs no longer exist. A handful of Sigma-Aldrich officers, however, took similar titles at MilliporeSigma and have remained here.

.....

Batra praises the “disproportionate attention” MilliporeSigma has gotten from local officials, and the way local institutions work together to promote biotechnology. He has just one complaint: St. Louis is hard to get to.

Add more direct flights to places like Boston, and even to international destinations like Frankfurt, he said, and St. Louis would be much more attractive to global businesses like Merck.

user28 wrote:Definitely disappointing not to see more downtown offices from the big corporation from the county. Is there any specific reason that companies in the region don't see value in having offices in downtown or in the city?


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Another reason is lack of quality office space.

Today's crazy shower thought/pipe dream: Bury or remove Interstate 64 from Jefferson through downtown, bury the rail yards as well. It could be the St. Louis version of Boston's "Big Dig." Maybe even work with Purina and Ameren to urbanize their campuses a bit by moving employee parking underground and repairing the grid for future development on top. It would obviously require billions of dollars, decades of planning, and demand for downtown real estate to skyrocket, but imagine how it could connect downtown to South City once built out.

Never hurts to dream I suppose.

stlien wrote:

user28 wrote:Definitely disappointing not to see more downtown offices from the big corporation from the county. Is there any specific reason that companies in the region don't see value in having offices in downtown or in the city?


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Another reason is lack of quality office space.

Don't believe the lack of quality office space holds up when you consider the following expanding and successful companies all have built new space or will be including but not limited to

- Centene
- Express Scripts
- RGA (built new along I64/Chesterfield corridor)
- Edward Jones (expanding campus on I270)
- WWT (New tower @ Westport)
- Bunge NA (building new along I64/Chesterfield corridor)

Good point. But what about all the other companies who don't own their own buildings, but lease space? Those companies *could* move downtown, but they don't/didn't/haven't. And one of the reasons, not the sole reason, is quality office space.

Downtown lacks premiere office space until the city further focuses on downtown and providing high quality premium new offices for companies who are in the market for such these companies will continue to pursue places like Clayton Chesterfield Westport some cases St.Charles
All I'm saying not every company wants to be in a old historic brick building some companies want new maybe something thats taller that provides quality and excellent views of the downtown vicinity.
Ballpark Village Bottle District provide those opportunities if either ever become shovel ready

Huh? BPV is "shovel ready." So are any number of lots and locations Downtown. Centene wanted new office space, so they built it (and are building more) in Downtown Clayton. RGA wanted new office space so they built it along 40 near the Chesterfield Valley, Worldwide Technology wanted a new HQ so they're building one in Westport Plaza, Spire/Laclede wanted a new HQ so they had the Gen Am Building rehabbed with lots of support/financial assistance from the city.

The City shouldn't be "providing" high quality offices for companies. It should be providing competitive incentives (which it did/does), and meanwhile companies should be taking more on an interest and making more investment in the CBD (thanks Laclede/Spire for being a great corporate citizen). It shouldn't take giving away office space Downtown to entice employers - even if it did the City shouldn't be expected to do so.

You're right, not every company wants a historic brick building. But every company is welcome to build their shiny new glass towers Downtown - and should at least seriously consider doing so.

^ Can add the fact that Koman has proposed a shovel ready project in Cupples Warehouse district from Busch Stadium, Out of downtown develop securing a lot on the other side of Busch Stadium and McKee's northside plan has rendered a new office tower anchoring the west end of Gateway Mall.

Many U.S. states, cities, missing chance of lifetime to borrow
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-m ... SKCN1060E7

This whole thread amuses me. In a good way, mind. Twenty years ago the complaint about downtown was that it was a wasteland after five, since there was virtually nothing there but offices. Now we want more offices. I think, in reality, downtown is a much healthier neighborhood than it has ever been in my lifetime. Is there room to improve? Sure. But I'm not altogether sure more offices is what it needs. I think slow, steady, organic growth that includes the continuing change of use is healthy. If businesses are in the county, fine. If they're in Cortex, great. If they're downtown, that's wonderful too. But it seems to me the biggest problem downtown, in general, is vacancy. And that's been steadily declining for twenty years, even if office vacancy has taken an upswing lately. Attracting and keeping business is certainly a worthwhile goal, but I for one don't much care what part of the region that business occupies, so long as it's here. And I don't care what's downtown, so long as it's something. Actually, a mix of uses is undoubtedly healthier than the sort of one-crop office monoculture that used to be there.

Do you have a copy of that rendering dredger?


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dredger wrote:^ Can add the fact that Koman has proposed a shovel ready project in Cupples Warehouse district from Busch Stadium, Out of downtown develop securing a lot on the other side of Busch Stadium and McKee's northside plan has rendered a new office tower anchoring the west end of Gateway Mall.

Where's the rendering of McKee's new office tower at the end of the Gateway Mall?