urbanSTL

DeBaliviere wrote:Jesus Christ, the city is ridiculously underserved when it comes to retail and we're complaining about bringing retailers downtown?

I tried to tell people in the Ballpark Village thread to hold off on the pity party until Thursday evening at 7 p.m. These guys will definitely feel their pain.







They're gonna have a lot to b!tch about this week on that show... Centene...Ballpark Village...and now this...

Everyone has different tastes, I am a downtown dweller and heaven forbid I like those "types" of stores!!!! So I am excited to see a BR or an Armani Exchange in DT.



What will make this appealing compared to the Galleria? Well for one, none of these stores exist in the city so they will draw from residents, tourists, and workers.... I think it will be a success, this is totally different than st. louis center. Its outside, and the young people of this city realize that DT is on the comeback and they are excited about it... It is unbelievable how many of my friends have moved to the city and how many who are still in the county want to or are really excited that "st. louis is getting better"!





So I guess I just wanted to vent to stop some of the negative comments and lets just be excited! That street is dead now and this will be wonderful!

Exactly...when I look around Union SQ, the names of the stores I see are Macy's, Bloomingdales, Nordstrom, Sak's, Neiman Marcus, etc. In terms of specialty stores, everything from Hermes, Armani, Ferragamo and Louis Vuitton on the high end, to Zara, H&M, Urban Outfitters, Anthropologie and Sephora on hte more mainstream level. I don't know that people on this forum are the target audience for this kind of retail, but there are a ton of people out there who are...

DeB-I understand that St. Louis is underserved by retail. That doesn't mean there isn't a smart way to seek and implement new retail options. First of all, it if a collection of upscale national retailers spread out among downtown streets were a great thing for downtown, I would say we might as well rehab the St. Louis Centre and see if it works again.



I do apologize for being the rain cloud, but do you think the foot traffic and population is there to support this kind of retail environment downtown all at once? Keep in mind other chain stores will be coming via Centene and Lumiere, probably in a similar time frame.



To me, this large, subsidized project based redevelopment in downtown is kind of troubling. It shows how we might not have learned from past mistakes.



I think there should be a business development program equivalent to the tax breaks the city gives these larger developers so that we can fill the storefronts of long forgotten retail districts in downtown and beyond. That would create more organic, piecemeal development that would attract local business owners and keep yours and my dollars in the local economy.



I don't know about you, but the most exciting and promising areas of the city right now are areas not scaled for these huge megaprojects and areas that have lots of potential to become cool districts representative of St. Louis (and not southern California when downtown gets its Hollister). These are Morganford (Skinnytown), Manchester (the Grove), Cherokee, Ivanhoe, Macklind, Gravois in Bevo, Locust (Auto Row), 14th Street in ONSL, Shreve in North City, N. Broadway (loft district), North Broadway (Baden), the Carondelet Business District...I could go on.



Yes, there are chains in or around many of these districts. The point though is that we would never applaud Pyramid buying all of Morganford in TGS and creating an upscale retail district, would we?



I know people have the belief that downtown should once again be a regional center for commerce, but, with demographics the way they are now, I believe that might be an antiquated notion.



I maintain that's it's troubling what is being proposed downtown, for two reasons. One is that I don't believe downtown can support these ventures, especially all at once. Two is that any character our downtown had as a unique business district will be lost if we keep subsidizing corps. and not the local guys who will maybe grow into a St. Louis-based national chain some day.

^

I will say though that out of all the plans that have been commissioned for downtown over the years, the downtown retail study performed by Midge McCauley seems to be the only one that is actually being used and followed. While I haven't seen the plan, I would think that it has to address the addition of larger national retailers to both the core of the CBD (the area around the Mercantile Exchange/OPO) as well as BPV.

Regardless of whether you're a full-blown booster, cautiously optimistic, a major skeptic or anywhere in between, you gotta admit it's pretty fun right now.

Very true. How great to be arguing about if we have too much development! Never thought I'd see the day.

I see the point of over subsidizing chains, but many of the new, independent shops are in subsidized buildings as well. The incentives are for the buildings themselves, not the retailer directly. I have to think that this could potentially lower the rent a little, but I think the space will still be pretty much market rate.



Yes, it is incredible to be arguing over this stuff. Healthy discussion is great, especially when it is on so many different projects.

I'm looking forward to the day in a few years when I go to lunch to make fun of the dorks are camped out in front of the Washington Ave Apple store for the 3rd generation iPhone.

dweebe wrote:I'm looking forward to the day in a few years when I go to lunch to make fun of the dorks are camped out in front of the Washington Ave Apple store for the 3rd generation iPhone.

^Hillarious



FYI, the website for the Mercantile Exchange is, http://www.mxstl.com/

^

I noticed "MX Marks the Spot" painted on the sidewalk at various points downtown and was wondering what that meant.

First of all, I've spent ample time in New Orleans, and not just in the touristy places either. My best friend from college went to Loyola Law, and lived in the Garden District. So he took me to all the cool districts that the tourists don't really hit. But I think you're painting this rosy picture of New Orleans that doesn't exist. Is it a cool town? Absolutely. But it's not an amazing urban oasis that makes St. Louis look like Winghaven.



Second, your area for business isn't just the projected 15,000 residents downtown. I'm in the projected area because there are stores I would consider going to, and now I don't have to go to the Galleria to get them. I live 10-15 minutes away from downtown, so you can include much of that area as well.



I'm looking forward to this taking shape. St. Louis has always been a city that is reluctant to change, but in the last few years we've seen a slight shift. And if you can shift those dissenting opinions that used to cloud the visions of a better St. Louis, then we are that much closer to achieving the kind of cityscape that we all want...Which I think it just vibrant.

^

So you'd be averse to a Butt Plug Emporium on Washington?

According to Pyramid, there will be a total of 450,000 Sq. Ft. of retail in the Mercantile Exchange, obviously including space outside of Pyramid ownership. I think this is plenty of space for chains and local shops and restaurants.

DeBaliviere wrote:^

So you'd be averse to a Butt Plug Emporium on Washington?

Well, it would be perfect if The Galaxy was still open with their Fetish Night on Mondays.

Butt Plug Emporium

This would be a nice addition for our retail district: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qb-Kh1oJSGE

Emo makes me chuckle. The idea of goth, but sad.



Good points, Bastiat. There are plenty of districts in St. Louis that offer funky alternative sites. We need downtown to be a major retail, residential, and office hub for the overall success of the city.

First of all, Bastiat, I am not opposed to upscale retail downtown whatsoever. I think it's great. There is already some of that down there (and due of course to brand name loyalty, a lot of it is struggling and some even closing).



Second of all, New Orleans has tons of problems, but it has amazingly cool shopping districts that sell both buttplugs and 12,000 dollar imperial rugs.



Look up Magazine Street (a 6 mile stretch of VERY diverse businesses, some hole in the wall, some so upscale I don't even bother looking in the window). Look at the amazingly funky Oak Street. Look at the college-town like Maple Street. Look at hippie-central Frenchmen Street. The list goes on. These are places that define cities. New Orleans becomes known precisely because of these places, not the Whole Foods that is Uptown. Yes, that Whole Foods is well patronized and appreciated by residents. But any plan to turn New Orleans' uptown into an "upscale retail district" (the most un-organis sounding urban development) would be met with resistance, and for good reason.



Bastiat...I would really ask you too in the future not to turn everything into some liberal v. conservative or rich v. poor argument. It's not that simple. With as much energy as you spend trying to simplify people's statements and compact them into something completely different, you'd think you would simply invest that effort in finding out the real story, no matter how much time and thought process it takes.



I don't believe any of what I'm saying should be parodied.

trent wrote:Emo makes me chuckle. The idea of goth, but sad.