urbanSTL

how are things going down there these days?



i moved to chicago 3 years ago but i love StL and plan to come back soon!



also i work in construction so this is double interesting for me!

Bottle district is on life support. Stangnation is the name of the game.

On the positive side, this thread is still alive and kicking. In fact, we're narrowing in on 100 pages.



I would love to see the Bottle District go up, but I'm actually glad the tourist trap idea they had is going away, at least for now. We need lift downtown to be more sustainable.

but I'm actually glad the tourist trap idea they had is going away, at least for now.

Where did you hear that the idea has gone away? Do you mean all has gone quiet on the Clayco front? I hope they don't go through with the idea of making the Bottle district another entertainment district. When it was anounced so many years ago I was all up for it, but now with everything else about to begin construction, downtown is going to turn into one giant entertainment park.

I don't see why it has to be a district.

If anyone asked me, I'd like to see them focus on a modest mix of office and residential with one tower in the 20 floor range. I'd like them to focus on a mix of street level retail that would mix well with conventioneers as well as address some needs of DT, old north, and Pinnacle phase 2 (north landing)

Didn't their last press release (the one from a few weeks ago when they mentioned their "mini branson" idea) state that they may start construction next year? I just don't see that happening. My thought: they're going to wait and see if Pinnacle actually proceeds with Phase 2 before we see anything at TBD.

^ There's been no shortage of ideas since the Bottle District was announced years ago. However, nothing's ever been done. Wouldn't get your hopes up about anything happening there for a long while.

I do not know if this link is up to date, nor do I know if it has been posted before, but it shows the project as cancelled on Skyscrapers.com. Just thought I'd post the link.





http://skyscraperpage.com/cities/?cityID=518&statusID=6

Yah the infrastructure has really failed the area. I would say the area is closer to the CBD than most of the loft district. However, the connectivity just isn't there yet so despite 16xx Washington being a further trip to the CBD, it feels more connected than TBD.

We've pretty much know that the BD in it's rendered form has been canceled for a while. Something will rise here, we just don't know what.

^Chesterfield Corporate Center, perhaps? Soulard Strip Center, anyone? Truly, the possibilities for mediocrity are endless, when you accept that any development is better than no development.

southslider wrote:^Chesterfield Corporate Center, perhaps? Soulard Strip Center, anyone? Truly, the possibilities for mediocrity are endless, when you accept that any development is better than no development.

Kinda scary what could happen.

La Saison II, dear God I hope not.

or another Pruitt Igoe

I think you have to look at the fact that Clayco is the player on this property now. I think they are holding out for committments on a new Missississipp River Bridge and the casino's next phase prior to doing any meaningful development. Clayco does have the deep pockets to hold onto a property. The MRB with a downtown connection opens this area to Metro East. Finally, the Casino's next phase adds more residential. However, it will be 10 years down the road at best.



I would say that Clayco would be hustling IKEA for this spot as we speak if they were building the bridge right now. They might be doing that anyways.

That would be an absolute travesty. With 40 to the South, the CBD will almost certainly have to push North when it exapands, as I would not be surprised to see residential buildings take over any expansion possibilities to the West. A giant IKEA breaking up downtown would certainly rank as a huge mistake. I'm probably being too optimistic thinking StL will need this much space for future downtown buildings, but I would rather be optimistic than sorry.

^I know. Those were just my gut feelings. I guess I've still got the initial grand scheme of this land in my mind (with 480', 590', and 630') in my mind, causing IKEA to seem like the worst thing imaginable next to that. Oh well. Time to let go right?

I think that whatever is developed on this site needs to be drastically different from anything else we have downtown.



What we don't need:

-Casino

-Stadium

-Condos/lofts

-Shopping



What we do need:

-Inclusive entertainment complex

-New restaurants

-Entertainment venues



I like the idea of Cabo Wabo Cantina and the F1 Speedway. Another interesting option would be something like Andretti's (Dave & Buster type place but with indoor racing).



A venue that will draw young people, families, corporate events, and convention goers will make the best use of this land and will give downtown another year-round drawing factor.

I spoke with my contact at McGuire earlier this year about Ikea. That's not on the horizon. I too feel downtown has a fairly good variety of restaurants though I wouldn't be surprised to see a couple in this development. I really hope for a mix that includes residential because the area north of the dome really needs more ownership opportunities. Getting rid of high rise low-income housing to reduce that density is great but maintaining a neighborhood where nearly half of the blocks are still owned by the SLHA still presents an obstacle for neighborhood stability.



It was relieving to hear earlier this year that the speedway company was filing for bankruptcy. That is unfortunate for them but all along I doubted the sustainability of that tenant, so it was weird to have that confirmed somewhat. I'm not familiar with Andretti's ...that may be different.



It seems we all agree the street grid should be restored here. Biddle is an important road that connects the area to the river. It also connects to the North Riverfront Bike Trail, so it would be in their interest to cater to bikers. A cafe or two with bike racks would be ideal for a resident that just finished the trail and was heading west on Biddle back to their home downtown.



The architecture should be modern...there's no use in attempting to replicate the historic features of the CBD. It's just not economically feasible to do it right in most cases and the result ends up embarrassing. The corner of Cole and Broadway truly needs an impressive building with some height.



I also think the Courtyards at Cityside apartments and St. Patrick's church makes the area a little awkward. The scale is just so out of porportion. A one story church across the street from a building with the height of 5 stories or so? Cole should be a street of mixed use. Too bad the parking garage along Cole wasn't configured for ground floor retail. The Courtyards should've also been broken up by some commerical/retail as well with a few buildings that are 3 or 4 stories tall. Just my thoughts.

Grover wrote:

TB1000 wrote:I think that whatever is developed on this site needs to be drastically different from anything else we have downtown.



What we don't need:

-Casino

-Stadium

-Condos/lofts

-Shopping



What we do need:

-Inclusive entertainment complex

-New restaurants

-Entertainment venues



I like the idea of Cabo Wabo Cantina and the F1 Speedway. Another interesting option would be something like Andretti's (Dave & Buster type place but with indoor racing).



A venue that will draw young people, families, corporate events, and convention goers will make the best use of this land and will give downtown another year-round drawing factor.

Interesting. I would actually completely reverse your list - not just to be contrarian either.

Wow..I thought exactly the same thing when I read that.

Just curious, but why do you think we need more condos/lofts and a new stadium on that site?



Until the supply for downtown condos and lofts is met with equal demand we don't need to build anything.