I occasionally work with a tug company whose family has a small parcel of waterfront property (old industrial waterfront that they have had for years) near the Jaguars stadium in Jacksonville, FL. They keep it in the family and clear of their equipment for simple the fact that they make a lot of cash come game day. Minimal maintenance & overhead to keep a gravel lot and minimal costs to operate a parking lot for events.
well whatever they are doing they seem to be in no hurry to get it done. Probably 3/4th of the building remains standing at this point, the building is very small, maybe 8000 sq ft, I would have exptected it to be down by now given it small size.
For about 2-3 years, yes.
However, dead is a subjective term. The plans for the original development will not be built. On the other hand, I can't imagine Clayco never building something here. The form of this imaginary development is unknown.
However, dead is a subjective term. The plans for the original development will not be built. On the other hand, I can't imagine Clayco never building something here. The form of this imaginary development is unknown.
I've heard that the Rams will be wanting a new stadium in the next 6 or so years when their lease is up with the Dome.
New open air stadium on the Bottle District site and expansion of the convention center on or in the Dome's current site?
New open air stadium on the Bottle District site and expansion of the convention center on or in the Dome's current site?
ntbpo wrote:I've heard that the Rams will be wanting a new stadium in the next 6 or so years when their lease is up with the Dome.
New open air stadium on the Bottle District site and expansion of the convention center on or in the Dome's current site?
I'd rather see it become a parking lot for a "Bottle District" than sink more public money into a failed convention center/stadium.
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bprop wrote:ntbpo wrote:
I'd rather see it become a parking lot for a "Bottle District" than sink more public money into a failed convention center/stadium.
I disagree completely. That dome is so ugly. I love the Rams but everyone there watches the game in a comatose state. We need some life pumped into our football team. A new stadium with a retractable roof + an expansion of the convention center would help our city completely.
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^Please explain how expanding our convention center which is currently struggling for business is in any way a wise business decision. Back up your claims as to how it would "Help or city completely".
The dome I agree could be spruced up, but I don't see how that would "Help our city completely" either. It would make game a little more pleasant, but aren't there only 13 rams games a year? I just don't see how that is worth sinking in more public dollars when they could be better spent elsewhere.
The dome I agree could be spruced up, but I don't see how that would "Help our city completely" either. It would make game a little more pleasant, but aren't there only 13 rams games a year? I just don't see how that is worth sinking in more public dollars when they could be better spent elsewhere.
Urban Elitist wrote:^Please explain how expanding our convention center which is currently struggling for business is in any way a wise business decision. Back up your claims as to how it would "Help or city completely".
The dome I agree could be spruced up, but I don't see how that would "Help our city completely" either. It would make game a little more pleasant, but aren't there only 13 rams games a year? I just don't see how that is worth sinking in more public dollars when they could be better spent elsewhere.
You're right, although there aren't any public dollars to spend period. And a new stadium is by no means an investment. It's an outlay, with no return.
Urban Elitist wrote:^Please explain how expanding our convention center which is currently struggling for business is in any way a wise business decision. Back up your claims as to how it would "Help or city completely".
While certainly not the whole reason, isn't part of the reason the convention center struggles for business due to it having less good space than other major cities? If it was expanded Saint Louis would be able to offer the amount of space that larger conventions require.
I think that's what the CVC would have you believe. It's their livelihood..what else are they going to say?
Let's face it, St. Louis has a lot of great things going for it, but it's just not a destination for conventioneers. Few people go to a convention town saying "Oh boy, I can't wait to get out of the convention, rent a car, and drive out to some of those neat neighborhoods" or "St. Louis..great choice! It's so affordable!".
Then there's getting here. We're barely a regional hub, much less a national one.
And then there's weather. Not that Chicago or New York have great weather either, but it's another strike against us.
What are some of the biggest convention cities?
Las Vegas
San Diego
San Francisco
Portland
Chicago
Orlando
New York
I like St. Louis, but I'm not fooling myself into thinking that tax dollars can somehow make us an attractive convention city. We need to concentrate on other things first, like improving quality of life for our own citizens.
Let's face it, St. Louis has a lot of great things going for it, but it's just not a destination for conventioneers. Few people go to a convention town saying "Oh boy, I can't wait to get out of the convention, rent a car, and drive out to some of those neat neighborhoods" or "St. Louis..great choice! It's so affordable!".
Then there's getting here. We're barely a regional hub, much less a national one.
And then there's weather. Not that Chicago or New York have great weather either, but it's another strike against us.
What are some of the biggest convention cities?
Las Vegas
San Diego
San Francisco
Portland
Chicago
Orlando
New York
I like St. Louis, but I'm not fooling myself into thinking that tax dollars can somehow make us an attractive convention city. We need to concentrate on other things first, like improving quality of life for our own citizens.
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Precisely. No amount of "expansion" is going to bolster our convention traffic. We'd be better off improving downtown livability and entertainment options which may in turn increase our desirability as a convention town. Expanding our convention center to "lure conventions" is a stupid as if we were to say, expand Lambert to "lure airlines"....oh wait....oops.......bprop wrote:I like St. Louis, but I'm not fooling myself into thinking that tax dollars can somehow make us an attractive convention city. We need to concentrate on other things first, like improving quality of life for our own citizens.
The Bottle District was in the news on KMOV Friday July 11, 10:00 p.m. Newscast.
Reported something on Emminent Domain and that the district was "on again" and a new developer will be named soon.
Hmmmm.
Reported something on Emminent Domain and that the district was "on again" and a new developer will be named soon.
Hmmmm.
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It looks kind of sad on maps.
Streetview isn't any better.
So much land just sitting unused in a city, yet there are a couple million people in sprawling suburbs. It's just sad.
Streetview isn't any better.
So much land just sitting unused in a city, yet there are a couple million people in sprawling suburbs. It's just sad.
matguy70 wrote:The Bottle District was in the news on KMOV Friday July 11, 10:00 p.m. Newscast.
Reported something on Emminent Domain and that the district was "on again" and a new developer will be named soon.
Hmmmm.
link?
What, teasing us with one giant parcel of full-of-potential downtown real estate next to a major sporting venue isn't enough so they have to awaken this sleeping giant? My brain is becoming cynical; my inner optimist says show me something to get excited about (like they did the first time, aka three pointy towers)
Yawnmatguy70 wrote:The Bottle District was in the news on KMOV Friday July 11, 10:00 p.m. Newscast.
Reported something on Emminent Domain and that the district was "on again" and a new developer will be named soon.
Hmmmm.
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I'm still excited about this. Are there any links for this? I can't find any updates anywhere, nor on it's own website.
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Survivor147 wrote:I can't find any updates anywhere, nor on it's own website.
That's because it's basically dead.
Survivor147 wrote:I'm still excited about this. Are there any links for this? I can't find any updates anywhere, nor on it's own website.
Not only are there no updates on TBD website, the project is not even listed on either the Clayco or Forum websites (and the Rawlings website has removed TBD address as well). I think this tells you all you need to know about this project. Once again, the most appropriate direction for this project to take would be for the property owner to package up all the great urban property he has collected and sell it to an urban developer who knows what in the world they are doing (watching this team has been similar to watching a 3 stooges marathon...only it has not been funny - only tragic). Sell the property and get out of the way - a project with this potential should not be left in the hands of rookies.
I wouldn't call Clayco a rookie. Actually, I think Clayco as made a play for a future football stadium and has the money/revenues sit on this property for a long time. In the meantime, they will build out North Park, build the Brown Shoes hq, build a new a tower for Centene. Probably grab one of the other buildings in Clayton's Central Business District.
Clayco is an experienced contractor, but they are a rookie when it comes to developing projects of this scale and magnitude (Clayco had earlier expressed interest in providing architectural services through their firm Forum/developer services and construction services). They are rookies concerning urban projects like TBD. A quote from Top Gun is appropriate here, "son, your ego's writing checks your body can't cash." Very appropriate for the development team for TBD.
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jambalaya wrote:A quote from Top Gun is appropriate here, "son, your ego's writing checks your body can't cash."
I don't know much about Clayco, but I'd say that Top Gun quote certainly applies to Pyramid and Cordish. One's left us with multiple projects that may or may not be completed, and the other has left us with a crater in our downtown and some pretty renderings of buildings.
jambalaya, I can see your point on where being a rookie comes in. I just don't see Clayco having to develop anything anytime soon with this site nor will the market support anything anytime soon. Hopefully I'm wrong and their is a market for some more urban infill. In the meantime, getting BPV with at least an office tower in phase I and Spinnaker (Laura, skybridge, etc) started would be a big plus for downtown in mind. Another thought, Clayco might not be thinking in terms of urban infill/dense development.
Instead, Clayco might be thinking that this site is favorable for, and my biggest fear for this site, BOX STORES!! Even an Ikea would underuse this space (Prefer open air stadium with urban infill closer to Washington and Laclede's Landing if all else fails). A new Target or Best Buy would probably stick out easily from the new MRB. All the person would have to do is take the downtown exit and they would be only a few blocks away.
Instead, Clayco might be thinking that this site is favorable for, and my biggest fear for this site, BOX STORES!! Even an Ikea would underuse this space (Prefer open air stadium with urban infill closer to Washington and Laclede's Landing if all else fails). A new Target or Best Buy would probably stick out easily from the new MRB. All the person would have to do is take the downtown exit and they would be only a few blocks away.