The Bottle District

Alex Ihnen · PostDec 21, 2007#15012007-12-21T02:48+00:00

I don't think that the demand for downtown condos lags development. Of course there are units for sale, but that will always be the case. Even in this slow market we're likely to get four or five very large residential projects downtown. I believe that once there are close to 10,000 residents, more retail will follow and the cycle will repeat. This is how sucessful neighborhoods grow. Of course I may really be wrong about this . . .

As an all-inclusive entertainment district it would very isolated by the superblock of the convention center/dome to the south and southwest, public/low income housing to the west and I-70 to the east and north. Thus it would add nothing to its immediate surroundings. Any development would right seek to be inward-facing as to avoid looking at its immediate surroundings. I do think it could be unattractive for residential as well for the same reasons. If you lived here and wanted to get to Wash Ave it would be a very uninviting stroll - especially because of how close you are.

My thoughts have changed some for the land here, but I now think its best use would be for Convention Center expansion with additional entertainment places to the east of I-70 and adjacent to Lumiere. Then again, maybe I'll change my mind. Come to think of it - I don't really like this area at all!

jlblues · PostDec 21, 2007#15022007-12-21T03:29+00:00

Maybe the demand for lofts/condos downtown is lagging, somewhat, but what about the demand for nice 2 to 3-story brick townhouses within 4 blocks from Washington Avenue, and just a few more blocks to the CBD. Hmmm. Mix in some corner retail to serve the neighborhood and perhaps a few nice boutique hotels or B&Bs - dunno, seems like a no brainer to me. I would be okay with a convention center expansion on that site, but I don't think that is going to happen any time soon. Anyway, I think we'd be better off expanding the convention center to the west, but next time it needs to be designed to accomodate north-south pedestrian and auto traffic - tunnels, people movers, whatever.

The very, very last thing downtown needs to do is to spread it's retail and entertainment options out any further than what is already planned.

st. louis texan · PostJan 03, 2008#15032008-01-03T03:47+00:00

How about a 15 story grocery store?

boomper · PostMar 26, 2008#15042008-03-26T01:00+00:00

Just wondering if this is still happeing or if it's really dead? According to their website, the first phase is still slated to open this summer. Has any construction actually started there yet?

goat314 · PostMar 26, 2008#15052008-03-26T01:11+00:00

boomper wrote:Just wondering if this is still happeing or if it's really dead? According to their website, the first phase is still slated to open this summer. Has any construction actually started there yet?

I think this project is dead. I think it was one of those projects that would have been built if Ballpark Village would have took off by now.

brickandmortar · PostMar 26, 2008#15062008-03-26T13:42+00:00

maybe if you bothered to look at the bottom of this page you'd find a gigantic thread about it.

innov8ion · PostMar 26, 2008#15072008-03-26T14:57+00:00

I'm pretty sure The Bottle District is as active as it has been for a while now.

Pointer to actual topic: http://www.urbanstl.com/viewtopic.php?t=12. This one should be closed.

shaneo69 · PostMar 30, 2008#15082008-03-30T19:00+00:00

From today's P-D...

Bigger developers with staying power will be ready to pounce once the market improves, Ward said.

That's what Clayco Corp., based in Overland, is hoping to do with its long-awaited Bottle District project near the Lumière Place casino complex.

The company has cleaned up the 15-acre property and hopes to start marketing it for a variety of potential uses, said Larry Chapman, a partner at Clayco. The possibilities include a corporate campus and an entertainment district, he said.

"We are not worried about leasing the space; it is a question of finding the right user," Chapman said.

Development delays at Ballpark Village and Clayton-based Centene's withdrawal from it could work to Bottle District's advantage, he said.

"Sure, retailers are taking a wait-and-see approach, but will that last? If we go into a full-fledged recession, maybe. But I don't see that happening," Chapman said. "Retail may be down now, but it could be flying again in 12 months, and we are positioning ourselves to take advantage of it."

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/s ... enDocument

newstl2020 · PostMar 30, 2008#15092008-03-30T20:12+00:00

Corporate campus? Good God why are people actively trying to sink this city.

stl1991 · PostApr 08, 2008#15102008-04-08T00:51+00:00

What is being done with the land now because couldn't centene and brown shoe company use the land to develop their HQs with some extra space for other small companies and future developments?

gone corporate · PostApr 08, 2008#15112008-04-08T00:58+00:00

stl1991 wrote:What is being done with the land now because couldn't centene and brown shoe company use the land to develop their HQs with some extra space for other small companies and future developments?

Nothing.

Theoretically, but highly unlikely.

tha lou · PostApr 09, 2008#15122008-04-09T18:21+00:00

Would be nice if we could get Centene to consider building their new headquaters at this site to kepp the head quaters in the ST.louis region.

magnatron · PostApr 09, 2008#15132008-04-09T20:36+00:00

^ What are you thinking??? That would be way too logical, economic and beneficial for downtown.....

doug · PostApr 09, 2008#15142008-04-09T20:47+00:00

Corporate campus? We don't need a fenced suburban office park and privatized streets. These people are [edited by Mod for explicit language] nuts.

matguy70 · PostApr 09, 2008#15152008-04-09T21:06+00:00

Doug, please watch your language... please check your PM's.

newstl2020 · PostApr 09, 2008#15162008-04-09T22:05+00:00

The main problem with the development as well as BPV is the active destruction of the street grid. By restoring the street grid to these two areas of land, the city would reap rewards in the future through the benefits to the immediately outlying areas. It is a stupid move by the city to not attempt to restore the grid to these parcels of land.

moorlander · PostApr 09, 2008#15172008-04-09T22:51+00:00

^but it's private property, do you want the city telling you what to do with your land?

newstl2020 · PostApr 10, 2008#15182008-04-10T03:05+00:00

I understand the argument, and I know the implications of property ownership. That is what litigations were invented for. The city gets a restored street grid to what is basically the downtown core (TBD is a bit of a stretch, but hopefully in the near future demand outweighs the presence of the Dome and works its way around to the North) and the developer gets some sort of incentive. I think cut off developments are just a bad idea in general. How many 6 block single developments do you see in Chi, NY? In my estimation, at least, they are the archetype.

Edit: Maybe not litigation - you get the point though.

MattnSTL · PostApr 10, 2008#15192008-04-10T03:37+00:00

Unless the streets have been vacated, there already is a grid in the Bottle Works land.

jcity · PostApr 10, 2008#15202008-04-10T03:50+00:00

this city is too comfortable with letting go of the street grid. Locust was totally ruined by the FED. I also hate how they allow garages to overhang on the sidewalks, breaking the continuity of building edifices along the street.

joelkamp · PostApr 24, 2008#15212008-04-24T20:07+00:00

The last building (corner NW of Broadway and Cole) remaining on the TBD was being torn down this morning.

MattnSTL · PostApr 24, 2008#15222008-04-24T20:44+00:00

I wonder if that actually means anything?

debaliviere · PostApr 24, 2008#15232008-04-24T20:45+00:00

MattnSTL wrote:I wonder if that actually means anything?

More room for tailgating.

moorlander · PostApr 24, 2008#15242008-04-24T20:50+00:00

DeBaliviere wrote:
MattnSTL wrote:I wonder if that actually means anything?

More room for tailgating.

That's what I thought. I have no idea the size of this building you speak of, but I know it costs at least 15-20k to tear down a modest west county home. Can you make that up over 8 games?

jambalaya · PostApr 25, 2008#15252008-04-25T21:50+00:00

Moorlander wrote:
DeBaliviere wrote:
MattnSTL wrote:I wonder if that actually means anything?

More room for tailgating.

That's what I thought. I have no idea the size of this building you speak of, but I know it costs at least 15-20k to tear down a modest west county home. Can you make that up over 8 games?

Believe it or not, that portion of McGuire's business currently provides $15K-$20K per dome event, so with this last building out of the way that should increase as well (all cash business too).

The Bottle District

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