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PostMar 27, 2007#1301

Off topic but^


For what it's worth, I was down furniture shopping today at the McGuire building on the BD property.


I didn't know they sold furniture down there, but I guess it makes sense. Good to know.

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PostMar 27, 2007#1302

Blzhrpmd2 wrote:For what it's worth, I was down furniture shopping today at the McGuire building on the BD property. It was the first time I have really been on site and had time to take it in. With the hotel tower in view now, the Vess bottle, the Dome right in your face, and great view of Arch and city, this land really does have immense potential for entertainment/residential. Hope all the plans get worked out and it succeeds.


You are absolutely correct - the potential is amazing. I think this is the cause for such frustration with this group, but let's hope they get it correct this time. It is a great site and a potentially great introduction into the city.

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PostMay 11, 2007#1303

ANY NEWS :oops:

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PostMay 11, 2007#1304

From March 22: "Announcements will be made in the very near future.

"



What's "very near"? It's time to get on the phone! I kid, I kid. I hope this project gets moving. With all the Pinnacle work this area will become more valuable or suffer from a saturated market.

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PostMay 11, 2007#1305

Hizzoner was on John Carney the other night, and although I was only halfway listening, my impression was that the City's official position is that TBD is currently in the "looking for a developer" phase.

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PostMay 11, 2007#1306

bonwich wrote:Hizzoner was on John Carney the other night, and although I was only halfway listening, my impression was that the City's official position is that TBD is currently in the "looking for a developer" phase.


That was my impression too.



I would advise the McGuire boys (not that they would ever ask me) not to rush. They are sitting on a big hunk of ground that will not decrease in value any time soon.

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PostMay 11, 2007#1307

The Central Scrutinizer wrote:I would advise the McGuire boys (not that they would ever ask me) not to rush.


C'mon, you know they read up at lunchtime every day!



:lol:

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PostMay 11, 2007#1308

Matthew/E36 wrote:
The Central Scrutinizer wrote:I would advise the McGuire boys (not that they would ever ask me) not to rush.


C'mon, you know they read up at lunchtime every day!



:lol:


I suspect some people on this forum really believe that they do!

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PostMay 13, 2007#1309

How recent was Slay updated? Based on information here, it doesn't appear people know.



For the record, I just spoke to the guys again last week - I didn't post on it because I get tired of the St. Louis naysayers who do no research or person-to-person contacts of their own.



They are still planning to get underway this summer, which has always been the plan. Whether they do or not, I can only go on what they tell me.

PostMay 13, 2007#1310

The Central Scrutinizer wrote:I suspect some people on this forum really believe that they do!
Why wouldn't they read up on a board dedicated to discussing development and some of their projects?



I am sure there are many developers/architects/civic leaders lurking here.



We have at least one regional developer/architect that has been a participating member.

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PostMay 15, 2007#1311

Fizz may be back in Bottle District

By Riddhi Trivedi-St. Clair

ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH

05/15/2007



Plans for the beleaguered $290 million Bottle District development north of downtown may be back on track with Clayco Inc. playing a prominent, but as yet undefined, role.



Officials from Clayco and the development arm of McGuire Moving & Storage, which has long sought to develop the site, said Monday that they are looking at a very "aggressive" development schedule, with work possibly beginning within a year.



A new group of local companies — in addition to Clayco and McGuire — is being formed to take on various development-related roles, said Matt Bernsen, spokesman for BDP LLC, the development group for the project. But he would not discuss details on the companies involved or what role each would play.



Plans for the development have changed since it was first announced in September 2004 by Dan McGuire, president of McGuire Moving. Advertisement



The last initiative, announced in September 2005, called for three high-rise condo buildings on the approximately 16-acre site — the tallest of which would be 630 feet. The city pledged a $51.3 million tax break. .



At the time, Ghazi Co., based in Charlotte, N.C., was named co-developer and Clayco was the general contractor.



Since then the project has stalled, and Ghazi dropped out about eight months ago, giving rise to speculation that the Bottle District may be dead.



"Speculation is speculation," Bernsen said. "Everyone has a right to their opinion about what's going on.



"(Afshin Ghazi) is doing a major project called the EpiCentre in Charlotte, and his timelines for that were established before he got involved with Bottle District. We required a more hands-on joint venture partner."



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PostMay 15, 2007#1312

:? I still can't get excited.

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PostMay 15, 2007#1313

I heard the Mayor say a couple months ago that the project was stalled, but he mentioned that regardless, it's a very large piece of property in a prime location and someone will find it attractive enough to develop it. It sounds like that's maybe coming true now.

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PostMay 15, 2007#1314

Heh, the representatives of TBD are full of it in that article.



I see trouble looming for TBD and the reason is as shown below from their own reps. One says that viability is important as opposed to just putting something up. And the other says they just want to put something in the ground before it's too late.



Why else would they feel the need to start now? They want in before Ballpark Village... But their real competitor will be Pinnacle. It will be interesting to see how successful they are in complementing each other. That will be the test.



Also, the article says they will announce the development team and some initial tenants within a month or two. Don't hold your breath, people.


The Bottle District is likely to remain a mixed-use project with residential, retail, office and even hotel and entertainment uses, Chapman said, adding that construction would have to start soon.



"It would have to be very quick. Clearly the renaissance in downtown is happening now, not five years from now," he said. "We would want to put something on the ground now. We want to make it fit with the things going on in the city so they don't cannibalize each other."

"Right now it is more about making the district a viable project as opposed to just putting it up," Bernsen said.

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PostMay 15, 2007#1315

But he would not discuss details on the companies involved or what role each would play.


Yeah - I don't like this part. Then, tell me again what the news is - besides the developer wanting to be in the news as a way to find partners.

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PostMay 15, 2007#1316

Let us parse. (Article abridged for fair use.)


Plans for the beleaguered $290 million Bottle District development north of downtown may be back on track with Clayco Inc. playing a prominent, but as yet undefined, role.



Officials from Clayco and the development arm of McGuire Moving & Storage, which has long sought to develop the site, said Monday that they are looking at a very "aggressive" development schedule, with work possibly beginning within a year.



(snip)



"(Afshin Ghazi) is doing a major project called the EpiCentre in Charlotte, and his timelines for that were established before he got involved with Bottle District. We required a more hands-on joint venture partner."



While Chapman didn't provide details, he said the Bottle District team would "look at all the great ideas accumulated over the last couple of years and pick and choose the best ones. … What we need is to look at what meets the needs of downtown right now."



The Bottle District is likely to remain a mixed-use project with residential, retail, office and even hotel and entertainment uses, Chapman said, adding that construction would have to start soon.



"It would have to be very quick. Clearly the renaissance in downtown is happening now, not five years from now," he said. "We would want to put something on the ground now. We want to make it fit with the things going on in the city so they don't cannibalize each other."



The development team, along with several tenants, will be announced within the next month or two, he said.



"Right now it is more about making the district a viable project as opposed to just putting it up," Bernsen said.


A potential interpretation: The Mayor has been walking around publicly saying the thing is stalled, so the developer needed to generate the impression that it isn't.



I haven't seen that much use of the subjunctive voice since my French 4 final exam.

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PostMay 15, 2007#1317

It's probably a very good thing that it is in a holding pattern. Ball Park Village and the Bottle District may be more successful if they're not identical. The emergence of identity takes time, especially as they are both starting at the same time, only a few blocks apart.



A very good thing for both may be the stiff competition for national and local tenants.

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PostMay 15, 2007#1318

bonwich wrote:Let us parse. (Article abridged for fair use.)


Plans for the beleaguered $290 million Bottle District development north of downtown may be back on track with Clayco Inc. playing a prominent, but as yet undefined, role.



Officials from Clayco and the development arm of McGuire Moving & Storage, which has long sought to develop the site, said Monday that they are looking at a very "aggressive" development schedule, with work possibly beginning within a year.



(snip)



"(Afshin Ghazi) is doing a major project called the EpiCentre in Charlotte, and his timelines for that were established before he got involved with Bottle District. We required a more hands-on joint venture partner."



While Chapman didn't provide details, he said the Bottle District team would "look at all the great ideas accumulated over the last couple of years and pick and choose the best ones. … What we need is to look at what meets the needs of downtown right now."



The Bottle District is likely to remain a mixed-use project with residential, retail, office and even hotel and entertainment uses, Chapman said, adding that construction would have to start soon.



"It would have to be very quick. Clearly the renaissance in downtown is happening now, not five years from now," he said. "We would want to put something on the ground now. We want to make it fit with the things going on in the city so they don't cannibalize each other."



The development team, along with several tenants, will be announced within the next month or two, he said.



"Right now it is more about making the district a viable project as opposed to just putting it up," Bernsen said.


A potential interpretation: The Mayor has been walking around publicly saying the thing is stalled, so the developer needed to generate the impression that it isn't.



I haven't seen that much use of the subjunctive voice since my French 4 final exam.


I didn't read it quite that cynically - I thought it was just the standard hedging required of all projects whose timelines are not set in stone yet - just ask SF-STL what happens when you say X will definitely be here by Y. :wink:



The subjunctives don't mean that they're not charging full-steam with the project, just that it's being rejiggered after a false start (appropriate considering the neigbors) and things aren't 100% set in stone yet. Yeah, they're probably responding to comments that the project is dormant, but the does that have to mean they're blowing smoke?



-RBB

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PostMay 15, 2007#1319

Of course, they want to get something done. The most telling statement in that whole article, however, was that they picked an initial developer that clearly was already busy with something else. They made lots of noise about bunches of tenants, but that quite obviously was "blowing smoke."



Correct me if I'm wrong, but Clayco ain't a developer. They stand to make good money building stuff, so of course they want to see the project move forward.



I also see great potential for a repeat of the 1980s downtown retail scenario. I'm sorry, but with stagnant regional population growth, there just isn't adequate demand for all these projects at once.

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PostMay 15, 2007#1320

RBB wrote:The subjunctives don't mean that they're not charging full-steam with the project, just that it's being rejiggered after a false start (appropriate considering the neigbors)


Should we be expecting an announcement that Alex Barron and Richie Incognito have joined the development team? :)

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PostMay 15, 2007#1321

Oh, I don't doubt many of the new tenants of both this and the BPV will be drained from elsewhere in the region. And just as with that, I'd not be shocked if some of the residential space was redrawn as office space.



That doesn't mean the project can't be viable, though. Nor does it mean that the region will continue to remain stagnant, especially with a newly revitalized core that many people believe is necessary for a vibrant and attractive region.



I'm still holding my breath a bit that the Bottle District will still be on the same (or similar) scale as was proposed in the Ghazi renderings (and on that subject, does anyone know if the current non-Liebskind renderings on the site were also a part of the Ghazi project or if it's possible they may still be viable renderings?), but I'm encouraged by today's news.



-RBB

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PostMay 15, 2007#1322

If you really think this project is not on life support, I guess I would be concerned with the fact that TBD has been removed from both Clayco's and Forum's websites. Since Clayco is such a marketing prostitute, if this project was really moving forward I think they would have it featured on their website (same is true with Forum). In addition, I know the engineers on the project and they have not been released to even begin their foundation designs - this project is a loooooong way from starting. I think a conversation with Afshin Ghazi would be interesting at this point (I think you would hear a different story as to why his firm is no longer involved with this project). Again, this project coupled with the Pinnacle development would be a great anchor for north St. Louis - I just wish they would sell this parcel to someone who knows what they are doing....watching these guys is like watching a really bad amateur hour. Please sell this property to a real developer because you obviously are not qualified to be the lead dog.

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PostMay 15, 2007#1323

bonwich wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but Clayco ain't a developer. They stand to make good money building stuff, so of course they want to see the project move forward.
Clayco recently formed Clayco Realty Group. They are developing the new Solae headquarters (in which they bought development rights) and the new 420,000 sf warehouse on the north riverfront.



2199 Innerbelt Business Center Dr.

St. Louis, MO 63114

p: 314.429.5100; f: 314.429.3137

www.claycorp.com




"Clayco Realty Group is a purpose-driven national real estate services firm that develops land, buildings, people and communities to the fullest potential. Clayco defines getting deals done, efficiently, fairly and in a creative win/win environment for our business partners. Our services include real estate development, creative lease and financial structures, site selection, acquisition, due diligence, development and negotiation of economic incentives, handled with the same quality and attention to detail that our clients expect."

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PostMay 16, 2007#1324


I also see great potential for a repeat of the 1980s downtown retail scenario.


this is the biggest impediment to this development. We've seen it happen with:

St. Louis Centre

Union Station

Northwest Plaza

Galleria?

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PostMay 16, 2007#1325

Arch City wrote:


"Clayco defines getting deals done, efficiently, fairly and in a creative win/win environment for our business partners."


I do not think the term "fair" should ever be used when describing anything that Clayco does - just ask anyone at THF or Trammell Crow.

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