urbanSTL

Doug wrote:These big projects might be good for reelection, but they also have huge risk. This might be a moot point, but wouldn't it be smarter to promote smaller levels of entertainment all across the City, rather than one huge project? This will have regional appeal, yet so do the smaller bars and venues in our City.

What's better? Let's go to the Loop or Ballpark Village where we can do x, y and z... Or, let's go to a smaller bar/venue in our city where we can only do x.



Whether these retail/restaurant/entertainment areas are planned or grow organically doesn't matter - it just matters that they are there and thriving.



Sure there is risk in a planned development, but we're never going to grow unless we think bigger (while doing smart market research in the process.) A planned development is much quicker to develop whereas to organically develop an area takes much longer. Therefore, the planned development is a shot in the arm...

-The development will be pedestrian-friendly.

Meaning within the development itself or interconnected to surrounding areas?

If the residential is to be linked to Lumier Place, they better expect some quick turnover among the units. One week a guy moves into a penthouse, the next he's out on the street...



Haha. Sarcasm aside, Im excited. What an emotional rollercoaster this has been (and probably will continue to be).

okay, quick question (and I know this is surely answered in this thread...but I'm fairly clueless on this project and 86 pages?? I'm too lazy )--



is Liebeskind involved in this project in any way?

^he was, he drafted the original renderings.

right, but did they can him and hire a different firm to take over the role of architect?

The actual design team turn-table has Liebeskind as the 3rd of 4 different architectural firms that have worked on this project. Liebeskind was only brought on board in an attempt to provide CPR to a dying project - it was successful for a while. I have heard from someone still working on the project (if that isn't ridiculous to believe) that they have not seen or heard from Daniel Liebeskind's studio for over 18 months (pretty much since his first renderings hit the newspaper). It was a worthwhile effort to try and take back some of the momentum BPV captured while the TBD developers were busy making every wrong decision, but it had to be followed up with something tangible (either a revised improved plan, or heaven forbid - an actual building project). To tell you the truth, since Ghazi has been dismissed from the development team we are all waiting to see who the 5th architectural firm for this project will be. The office pools are starting - what will occur first: TBD will actually build a building or the Cubs win the World Series?

That's unfair to the Cub's. Of course the Bottle District will be first.



As far as the architectural firm, I wouldn't doubt if it's still Forum Studio, per the Clayco comment. I have no actual idea, but I'm still interested to see some renderings. I think a nice development of mid-rise structures with a good mix of retail, office, and of course condo space can be very successful. Even if it has taken forever. I also want to see the pedestrian friendly aspects. Hopefully the ped street has been eliminated and it is very open to the surrounding neighborhoods. With Neighborhood Gardens and the redevelopment of the Cochran complex there are a lot of new neighbors. There is also the momentum provided by Lumiere. I still see a lot of potential at this site, but I don't expect any new tallest buildings. We can leave that up to M|W.

^^That was one of the things that I thought was wrong with the first design (ya know, the shards of glass). It was pretty much isolated from everything around it and had only one or two entrances. They have all this land, they could make two or three through streets and have it fit into the city around it. (now it does have a huge highway to the east, low income housing to the north and west, and the dome/convention center to the west/south) BUT I think that isolating it to make it a "destination" would be a mistake.

I'll believe it when I see it. I was a huge fan of the BD when it was announced, and for 3 years after. I refuse to believe anything coming out of the MaGuire camp. When I see foundation posts coming out of the ground I'll jump on board; Until then I'm not holding my breath, (first post on the BD website 9/4/04) this is a cruel joke.

I'll believe this when monkeys fly out of my butt. They have no credibility with me anymore.

Arch City wrote:-New designs have been completed.

-Final "John Hancock" approvals needed.

-New renderings will be put on the website soon.

-Not much has changed.

-250 condos

-Groundbreaking is still anticipated within 90-days (late Spring).

-Final grading is taking place on the site.

-The development will be pedestrian-friendly.

-Residential is essential especially considering the proximity to Lumiere Place.

-Partnering with Clayco has been an asset considering they are local builders/developers.

-Financing is secure from a local bank.

-Announcements will be made in the very near future.



Guys, it ain't over 'til the fat lady sings.

Thanks for the update. Who's the source? How do you have contact with the Bottle District people? Do you know how they plan to market the residential and commercial aspects of the project?

Arch City wrote:
-Not much has changed.

Exactly. Still making announcements, and the fat lady is still singing about how the project is still a go, but like it's been said I'll believe it when I see the foundation on the ground.

With all the money people are going to be investing in these condos (if indeed that remains part of the project) I can't see them being too excited about good pedestrian connections to the surrounding neigborhoods. I'm afraid it'll end up with the "ungated" gated community feel.

^ That's my assumption too.



I'm willing to keep and wait-and-see attitude on this project. I think a number of people here got it right when it was said that this is a valuable piece of land and although plans may change and things may take time, something will be built here.

Arch City wrote:
-Partnering with Clayco has been an asset considering they are local builders/developers.

-Financing is secure from a local bank.



Guys, it ain't over 'til the fat lady sings.

From my experience I am not sure if partnering with Clayco is ever an asset (just ask Trammel Crow and THF for similar opinions of this company and the "benefits" they typically provide). It has also been my experience that once financing is truly secure it is broadcast from the rooftops because the financial vehicle would like as much publicity as possible - this being said, I doubt they are really this close on finalizing their financing.



90 days before the groundbreaking huh... 90 days from what start date?



Sorry, but this fat lady has been singing for so long she has laryngitis. Let's keep our fingers crossed, but if anything is going to happen on this project is will be significantly later this year than suggested.

Good to hear about the groundbreaking. Except that they already had one a year ago.

If you feel like you have been dealt with in an open and honest way over the past 3+ years - great, go ahead and trust your source - I tend to trust my eyes. If for any reason you think TBD bigwigs have misrepresented the project (time after time after time after time...), then I would be more than a little cautious with any information coming out of that camp. But I am looking forward to a second ground breaking - should be exciting. It also seems like they lost Grand Prix Speedway as a tenant - that is a shame because they were the only mentioned tenant where the francise rights were not owned by a member of TBD development team (that does not look good to potential financial institutions). We will keep watching with our fingers crossed, but I still wish they would sell this parcel of ground to someone who knows what they are doing.