Thank you for posting information so that we don't have to keep throwing back pointless speculation. I think I speak for all of us when I say that we'd love for you to give us periodic updates on anything you can say about the project. The local media is worthless anyway, and people like us spread the buzz around town alot more than 99% of the media. I for one am pulling for this project 100%, and think that this project could really show the naysayers (those that say, "Sure they'll build the BPV but DT's not ready for much else) that they're wrong.
I'll second that - thanks for posting, mhbTBD. Any info you're comfortable sharing is very much appreciated!
Thanks again for compiling what's public (but not always easy to find). I have a couple questions:
Are there still plans for two residential towers? Assuming this is right - will they be anywhere near 700'? Is the website going to be updated soon? Finally, can we get some renderings!?!
Ihnen wrote:Thanks again for compiling what's public (but not always easy to find). I have a couple questions:
Are there still plans for two residential towers? Assuming this is right - will they be anywhere near 700'? Is the website going to be updated soon? Finally, can we get some renderings!?!
I don't mean to be evasive, but we will be working with residential "partners" that will address your first two questions when ready. The website updates and new renderings will come out within the next few months - believe me, I want everything to move as fast as all of you do.
Speculation or not, it's important to share relevant ideas (whether they be cheerleading or criticism....)
2470 units in the BD by 2012? Add this to the number of units that are already scheduled to be online by 2012. How does this match up with downtown population projections? Is this wishful thinking or what???
I also don't buy the argument regarding synergy between the BD and the Casino (self-contained black hole), Dome (only viable 8 days of the year), and Landing (low residential and competes with the BD for entertainment/restaurants.) Otherwise, it's cut off from the rest of downtown. This means that the BD shops, entertainment & restaurants will have to primarily freed from its own residents. That's definitely a risk.
Do we all agree that creating a strong core in our downtown (WashAve/CBD/BPV) is critical to its success? I do. If there truly is enough demand to make the BD successful without diluting the core, ok. If not, I think the idea isn't a good one.
I wonder what the major developers and city leaders have to think about this topic....
^Did you know that the Dome also doubles as a conventions center...??? I don't have any relevant convention data..but i'm pretty sure they have at least one convention per year that draws at least a few people to it..maybe one of the convetioneeers would walk over TBD and possibly purchase something... i know i'm being a donkey hole... i couldn't resist
innov8ion wrote:Speculation or not, it's important to share relevant ideas (whether they be cheerleading or criticism....)
2470 units in the BD by 2012? Add this to the number of units that are already scheduled to be online by 2012. How does this match up with downtown population projections? Is this wishful thinking or what???
No you're not being a donkeyhole It's all in good fun... And yeah, that's a point I obviously forgot about. Conventions help, sure... One thing is for sure, it'll be interesting to see how downtown transforms during the next 10 years or so.
bpe235 wrote:^Did you know that the Dome also doubles as a conventions center...??? I don't have any relevant convention data..but i'm pretty sure they have at least one convention per year that draws at least a few people to it..maybe one of the convetioneeers would walk over TBD and possibly purchase something... i know i'm being a donkey hole... i couldn't resist
^I definitely believe there is an opportunity to create a large, successful project on the site of the BD. I am just not sure that what we have seen to date is the correct formula.
The project needs to find its own niche, to determine its competitive advantage, if you will. I do not think that it will be successful as Ballpark Village II. I do, however, think that there is an opportunity in its proximity to the convention center and Pinnacle casino. One possibly successful formula I can envision would be to redevelop Laclede's Landing as a residential, bed-and-breakfast, and, ultimately, shopping, district along the lines of the French Quarter, minus the cheesy T-shirt shops and bars of Bourbon Street (think upscale antique, jewelry, and imported goods stores such as those along Royale Street). The isolated nature of the Landing, the narrow historic streets, and the incredible views of the river, Arch, and the skyline, make it ideal for such a neighborhood. For this reason, I would much rather see the new residential towers slated for the BD go into the vacant lots north of the Landing.
At the same time, the BD developers would seek to create something that enhances the convention center and casino, and that would make our convention center much more competitive nationally and thus increase convention traffic in and around the dome. I realize we may be some distance away from any convention center expansion, but the BD should be developed, not just with that expansion in mind, but in a way that will make that expansion an eventuality, not just a possibility. A major cultural draw of some sort, which does not compete with Grand Center or the redevelopment of Kiel Auditorium, would be ideal. This would be a nearly perfect location for something along the lines of the Experience Music Project in Seattle, but with a Jazz and Blues flavor, and with an outdoor concert venue that could double as an open-air market when no events are scheduled. In addition, the lack of viable exhibition space, which could bring in the many national touring exhibits that currently bypass St. Louis, has often been cited as a serious shortcoming of our region, by Louis Maull, IV(?), and others. Why not use available land right across from the convention center and dome to create such space, in such a way that it can also be used as an extension of the convention center? I also liked the original BD concept of creating an adult arcade of sorts, with an F-1 track, bowling, etc. Perhaps the Bowling Hall of Fame could relocate here? I think that, done correctly, this would tie very well into both the casino and convention center, however, I believe that would seriously diminish the attractiveness of any residential component of the BD.
There are just so many other possibilities than simply putting up some all-encompassing, mixed-use thing that will have to directly compete with Ballpark Village, Wash Ave, Chouteau's Pond, et al.
Is The Bottle District weighing-in at all on the issue of the proposed new Miss. River Bridge and planned re-routing of I-70? Having the MRB and direct access from I-70 could be a boon to the project, not to mention provide incredible views. Being able to see the bridge, arch and highway could make it even more appealing to potential residential buyers (at least it would to me).
Maybe this is the key thing I've been missing - a new MRB could make this the easiest destination in StL for everyone east of the river. A new landmark bridge would add prestige and recenter downtown a bit north - if it were accessible both east and westbound.
I hear BD, NMRB, and elevated 70 being torn down and my brain goes into a series of short seizures. Quite exciting, the thoughts of a revamped northern half of the CBD.
Thankful for somebody in the know to keep us updated. I've really been a supporter of this project, but I've been waning for months with so little being discussed (other than our own mindless speculation).
And how all this connects to the area is probably the most important.
Also, I liked the little mini vision that JMed provided.
Thanks trent... Thats why I do what I do (urban planning), hoping that one day I will get the opertunity to do exciting stuff like that in my hometown.
JMedwick wrote:Thanks trent... Thats why I do what I do (urban planning), hoping that one day I will get the opertunity to do exciting stuff like that in my hometown.
So I've been out of the country for almost a year now, and I've seen nothing but a few pictures of new renderings -
does anyone have an update on the actual construction? They broke ground, but have they dug any deeper than that? foundations, earthworks, demo - anything?
There's been a bobcat on site off and on moving some dirt around, maybe removing some contaminated soil. Otherwise, as Trent said there hasn't been a thing.
Is there a way we could separate project timelines and our own speculation? It would take a few of us scanning through the project forums and compiling significant events. That way someone could check the timeline to see if there's progress, when ground was broken etc. etc. without scanning through 50+ pages of back-and-forth. Maybe a project page could have "timeline," "renderings", "phots/maps" to pull everything together?
There's been a bobcat on site off and on moving some dirt around, maybe removing some contaminated soil. Otherwise, as Trent said there hasn't been a thing.
A single bobcat on a site that big? That's very concerning...
I wonder if this has become like the mansions on delmar thing, where the developer ran out of money and had to wait for someone else to come in and finish it.
If they're still lining up financing...why would they break ground? This all seems very very very sketchy to me...
JMedwick wrote:^ No, what the BD needs is the MRB built, allowing elevated I-70 to come down, opening up the land between the BD and the landing for development.
Are re-suggesting sending all I-70 across the new bridge and eliminating the I-70 portion from that bridge to the Poplar Street Bridge, including the imfamous "depressed" lanes?
There's been a bobcat on site off and on moving some dirt around, maybe removing some contaminated soil. Otherwise, as Trent said there hasn't been a thing.
A single bobcat on a site that big? That's very concerning...
I wonder if this has become like the mansions on delmar thing, where the developer ran out of money and had to wait for someone else to come in and finish it.
If they're still lining up financing...why would they break ground? This all seems very very very sketchy to me...
This is why, despite encouraging 'insider' posts, some of doubt this projects viability. It seems that the developers used the 'if you break ground, they will invest' strategy. Having said that, I'm sure that this whole project may get sorted out. If and when, I'd love to hear the inside dirt on how this has stalled.
whats all this worrying about... all though they had an official ground breaking in 2005, they aren't even scheduled to start construction until fall of this year... Relax people... if it was scheduled for construction fall 2005 and we were still waiting for something to happen that would be one thing... If they haven't done anything by xmas, then we can start with these negative posts..IMO
i know i'm being a donkey hole... i couldn't resist
It's all in good fun... And yeah, that's a point I obviously forgot about. Conventions help, sure... One thing is for sure, it'll be interesting to see how downtown transforms during the next 10 years or so.
