urbanSTL

So the Bottle District is done? Wow I really hyped that up for my family and friends. Lesson learned I guess. That sucks.

SoulardD wrote:So the Bottle District is done? Wow I really hyped that up for my family and friends. Lesson learned I guess. That sucks.

Not necessarily. This news does not sound too encouraging though.

DeBaliviere wrote:I totally agree - they should move their headquarters there as well. They could integrate the restaurant, corporate offices, R&D/product testing (with the help of MLB players), and some sort of cool interactive fan display (showing how baseballs are made, the history of the company, etc.) all in one spot.

Excellent idea. Can we get the powers-that-be at Rawlings to listen?



Even if TBD isn't through, I just don't like the odds...

The people at Rawlings have already been approached - they just moved their corporate headquarters to new offices in Chesterfield (sorry). This restaurant (recently changed to the Golden Glove Grill - I think that is a questionable move), will be putting a location in downtown. They have been looking at locations in and around TBV, but since plans for the village are not more fully developed, they are not sure where the potential restaurants are going to be located. They have been looking at other sites downtown since well before TBD went belly-up (they were very frustrated with the lack of progress concerning TBD). However, Rawlings does not run the restaurant - they sold the naming rights to some questionably run operators named Sports Destination Entertainement, LLC - their website is not very promising. The Rawlings corporation does have input on where and when these restaurants are developed, and they have voiced their disappointment with how loooooooong the development of their flagship restaurant has taken. I think it will be in TBV as soon as definitive plans are provided.

Ummm, I am not reading or seeing any information that says The Bottle District is "done".

Restructuring and refinancing, yes.

Put a spork in it, it's done (insofar as the project had been earlier described.) Bring on the workforce housing and Applebees. No surprise, really; earlier posts described the reasons why it wasn't going to work. And this is very likely good news for St. Louis development as more investment can be placed in the core since the downtown market won't be diluted.

matguy70 wrote:Ummm, I am not reading or seeing any information that says The Bottle District is "done".

Restructuring and refinancing, yes.

I always thought the ironic acronym of "TBD" was foretelling of the indefinite project schedule.

you know it really is a prime spot - you're right next to the convention center and pinnacles brand spanking new casino .. not mention wash ave. I actually think something decent will get built here ... high density residential makes sense. So does some office space ... the exposure from 70 and the convention center is priceless.

southslider wrote:I always thought the ironic acronym of "TBD" was foretelling of the indefinite project schedule.

Every time I saw the acronym used, I thought the same thing.



Too bad about Rawlings- I really liked DeBaliviere's idea.



I think eventually the site will be developed, but since I've been a bit skeptical of the project from the beginning for a variety of reasons, I can't say I'm all that disappointed or surprised.



If we had to choose between this and Ballpark Village being built, I'd choose the latter hands down, and I think it will have more of a positive impact on downtown overall. Just my $.02, of course.

ThreeOneFour wrote:

southslider wrote:
If we had to choose between this and Ballpark Village being built, I'd choose the latter hands down, and I think it will have more of a positive impact on downtown overall. Just my $.02, of course.

I was hoping we wouldn't have to choose between the two except for when we wanted to go out for the evening.

According to their website: thebottledistrict.com .... the last news published on this project was one year ago as of tomorrow (10/05/2005 was the last). Even in the world of construction - when you are trying to get tenants and sign leases etc... one year is a LONG time to go with out any word. If they had some press releases and still no construction - it wouldn't be too bad... but in this case no news is NOT good news.



I can see why Rawlings and other companies do not like the silence... and as mentioned by other people in prior posts - the link on the ghazi companies website to thebottledistrict doesn't work anymore.... this project may not be "done" but it looks as though it won’t ever get done in any sense that we saw in any rendering....

Jambalaya mentioned that the name of the restaurant has been changed to the Gold Glove Grill (presumably with a baseball theme), making BPV even more of a no-brainer than it was before. Does it really make sense to have a Gold Glove Grill situated right next to the football stadium?

Rawlings is a sporting goods company primarily known for its baseball goods but also is involved in football and basketball. So whether the bar and grill is called Rawlings or the Gold Glove Grill (the Golden Glove is an annual award given to the best fielder at each position); one would think the better fit would be near the ballpark anyway.



Interesting article from 2004 lists a location near the St. Louis ballpark as one of their top locations to expand to: http://www.bizjournals.com/losangeles/s ... aily1.html. That being the case, why were they even looking at TBD when they really wanted to be by the ballpark the whole time?!?!?



From a previous post, it looks like Rawlings has just licensed their name to some 2nd rate outfit running the restaurant business and it was also stated that plans will now be scaled down. I really wouldn't expect much from it if it does come to fruition. If it's a "hit," then great. If not, doubt it will stick around long. Besides, there's plenty of other restaurant options that have their act together.



Just noticed that Rawlings is actually a subsidiary of K2, which is mainly known for skiing/snowboarding equipment: http://www.k2inc.net/brands/default.asp



As a side note, Rawlings Restaurant must have the same communications team that TBD has. Check out their website, it's just as up to date: http://www.rawlingsrestaurant.com/index.html

DeBaliviere wrote:Jambalaya mentioned that the name of the restaurant has been changed to the Gold Glove Grill (presumably with a baseball theme), making BPV even more of a no-brainer than it was before. Does it really make sense to have a Gold Glove Grill situated right next to the football stadium?

Really odd that HRI would be mentioned in association with this development. The only thing I could imagine them doing would be the renovation of the old McGuire warehouse/storage/office building. Sounds like someone is grasping at straws...

Agreed. The old McGuire building is a beautiful structure and it would be perfect for an HRI renovation project (perfect scale and building of significance). Proximity with Interstate 70 and Broadway is a little questionable for residential - noise and fumes - but other residential developments have similar adjacencies. I am sure if anything gets developed on this campus it will be at a greatly reduced scope (compared with what has been presented to date) which is a shame. This property is so strategically placed and it is unfortunate that the development team missed their window of opportunity for a grand scale development. This could have been spectacular - too bad the development team could not make appropriate and timely decisions to take advantage of their initial momentum.

jambalaya wrote:Agreed. The old McGuire building is a beautiful structure and it would be perfect for an HRI renovation project (perfect scale and building of significance). Proximity with Interstate 70 and Broadway is a little questionable for residential - noise and fumes - but other residential developments have similar adjacencies. I am sure if anything gets developed on this campus it will be at a greatly reduced scope (compared with what has been presented to date) which is a shame. This property is so strategically placed and it is unfortunate that the development team missed their window of opportunity for a grand scale development. This could have been spectacular - too bad the development team could not make appropriate and timely decisions to take advantage of their initial momentum.

I'm sure the cooling national real estate market doesn't help.

I would love to see the original plans come to fruition, but I was skeptical ever since I saw competing renderings released. How could they go from planning a Libeskind skyscraper to a few brick mid-rise buildings? Some of the renderings looked like a school project, not like anything with grandness to me. Sure I would love to see growth downtown, but not buildings to be building.



The location of TBD is ok. I don't really think it being close to the highway is helpful. If anyone is going there, a couple blocks away wouldn't make a difference. Would you say you won't go to the city museum because it isn't near the highway?



Yeah, it is close to Washington, but not the best proximity. If you were walking on Wash and went to TBD, you would cross through the convention and Dome area...which are lively when there is an event, but even then, you would just be trying to "get through" to TBD.



So I actually think BPV is a better location for good growth...including infill on surrounding streets. You would pass by more ground level buisinesses from Wash. Also, BPV is slightly parallel to Wash, so nearing the end of the street, there are a number of paths/streets to take to get there, so there are great oppurtunities for infill, as opposed to just 9th or Broadway to TBD.

^

Welcome!



Frankly, I wouldn't be too broken up if the whole thing got scrapped.



How about development on the vacant lots behind the Bankers Lofts/Dorsa Lofts/etc. instead?

dweebe wrote:


I'm sure the cooling national real estate market doesn't help.

I personally don't think the cooling trend on the coasts will impact DT's revitalization to a large extent. The trend towards urbanism and baby boomers moving back to the city as well as all of DT's other endearing features should help to sustain the growth.

loftlover wrote:

dweebe wrote:


I'm sure the cooling national real estate market doesn't help.

I personally don't think the cooling trend on the coasts will impact DT's revitalization to a large extent. The trend towards urbanism and baby boomers moving back to the city as well as all of DT's other endearing features should help to sustain the growth.

The issue is who will the baby boomers in the county sell their homes to in order to move in to the city. A majority of those that wanted to/could afford to buy houses did so when interest rates were lower. Those that bought lofts DT on a speculative basis could be stuck holding onto property that no one is interested in buying for what it cost to purchase in the first place.

FloInSoulard wrote: Those that bought lofts DT on a speculative basis could be stuck holding onto property that no one is interested in buying for what it cost to purchase in the first place.

I don't think that is a concern at all in DT STL at this time.

^ Only time will tell.

^I think time has already told. Right now prices are still steadily rising as DT continues to mature. Now if you're talking 10 years down the line, obviously no one knows, but in the near term, just by looking at the market(and current resales) and the fact that interest rates have stabalized at below 6.5%, everything looks great. Please don't fear monger. Sounds more like you're more jealous of loft-dwellers than you are scared of the bottom falling out of the DT loft market to me.

Urban Elitist wrote:^I think time has already told. Right now prices are still steadily rising as DT continues to mature. Now if you're talking 10 years down the line, obviously no one knows, but in the near term, just by looking at the market(and current resales) and the fact that interest rates have stabalized at below 6.5%, everything looks great. Please don't fear monger. Sounds more like you're more jealous of loft-dwellers than you are scared of the bottom falling out of the DT loft market to me.

Wow. That is an interesting conclusion to jump to. Nothing I said has anything do to with fear mogering. Maybe you as a loft owner? fail to see any risks associated with purchasing downtown, but that doesnt mean they don't exist.

FloInSoulard wrote:

Urban Elitist wrote:^I think time has already told. Right now prices are still steadily rising as DT continues to mature. Now if you're talking 10 years down the line, obviously no one knows, but in the near term, just by looking at the market(and current resales) and the fact that interest rates have stabalized at below 6.5%, everything looks great. Please don't fear monger. Sounds more like you're more jealous of loft-dwellers than you are scared of the bottom falling out of the DT loft market to me.

Wow. That is an interesting conclusion to jump to. Nothing I said has anything do to with fear mogering. Maybe you as a loft owner? fail to see any risks associated with purchasing downtown, but that doesnt mean they don't exist.

Ok. I'm contenet to end this discussion here.