^That's a large jump. Any ideas on what drove it?
I'd like to see that one come back. I'm tired of connecting though ORD or CLT and refuse to go through ATL.gregl wrote:dredger wrote:Delta (and American) used to fly STL-JFK but both airlines have dropped that service.
Greg
^ Is there any way to know how this 14% growth is distributed across the carriers? I am assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that it is mostly on Southwest, which would not bode as well for trying to get an intercontinental flight (e.g. to LHR).
Dweebe, why you down on connecting through ATL? Yes, a lot of people but as a frequent business traveler myself I find ATL just as easy or easier than a lot of places. I would say its one of the better Delta hubs. DTW requires a escalator, a train ride if your connecting gate is opposite and a walk through a tunnel if your connecting to a small airport. MSP is a maze unless you know the place well. JFK has gotten a lot better with new terminal but talk about a hike depending on gate and be careful to check departure if on time crunch with the old terminal still in use.
Different airlines and hubs not much better in my opinion. AA had me on two concourses, three plane changes and four gate changes the last time I connected in Dallas trying to get to Mobile.
Different airlines and hubs not much better in my opinion. AA had me on two concourses, three plane changes and four gate changes the last time I connected in Dallas trying to get to Mobile.
What is more interesting is that these numbers should continue to rise. Nationally, they are rising. In addition, SWA in St. Louis will add Des Moines, Seattle (year-round) and Wichita on APRIL 12. Then they will add Cleveland, Oakland, Portland (OR) on JUNE 5. They have also just added Orange County, CA.
Among those adds is their focus on STL as a "hub/Focus City" - Connecting and Destination traffic will be high from Wichita and Des Moinse - that is their focus for those cities. they cut Chicago and Dallas out of those cities and redirected to STL and PHX. Anything going South/North/East is now connecting through STL. Cleveland no doubt will pick-up United Express dropped route with a large 737 daily serving business passengers but also a new connection for SWA through STL.
The new SWA gates and completely remodeled section of E - down to E33 looks great! Lambert completely gutted that section. Thus, giving SWA more gates and also international gates for SWA (future) and international arrivals (Frontier/Sun Country/Charters) and ability for 787 arrivals.
Among those adds is their focus on STL as a "hub/Focus City" - Connecting and Destination traffic will be high from Wichita and Des Moinse - that is their focus for those cities. they cut Chicago and Dallas out of those cities and redirected to STL and PHX. Anything going South/North/East is now connecting through STL. Cleveland no doubt will pick-up United Express dropped route with a large 737 daily serving business passengers but also a new connection for SWA through STL.
The new SWA gates and completely remodeled section of E - down to E33 looks great! Lambert completely gutted that section. Thus, giving SWA more gates and also international gates for SWA (future) and international arrivals (Frontier/Sun Country/Charters) and ability for 787 arrivals.
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^ that is the thing, there has been noticeable YoY increases here starting this past November (it is possible the trend started earlier, but was distorted by Wright Amendment changes since November was the first month that the previous year is after that change) And most of the Southwest service expansion hasn't happened yet so its likely more than just them contributing to increases. Wonder if this summer you will see more frequency and/or upguage from AA, UA, and DL to their hubs since some of those will likely need that. Did notice Alaska already started the 2nd Seattle frequency which was only summer last year, so maybe that will in time be a year round thing. That would be helpful for business travelers to get an early flight out west and for strong network connectivity.
As for the noticeable growth, it would be interesting to see where its coming from in terms of where people coming here from and those here are going. Especially if its even stronger in markets that got non-stop service started in the past year, since that would show stimulated demand that could make other places easier to achieve. I picture some of it is with Southwest growth is more connecting traffic, since that will grow noticeably too by design. What helps there is Southwest in growing likely has to look at here more since they can't really grow further at Midway or Love field.
Keeping fingers crossed though that this growth there isn't problems that creep up in terms of security line delays more common here and other crowd issues, since I do wonder how that will go.
As for the noticeable growth, it would be interesting to see where its coming from in terms of where people coming here from and those here are going. Especially if its even stronger in markets that got non-stop service started in the past year, since that would show stimulated demand that could make other places easier to achieve. I picture some of it is with Southwest growth is more connecting traffic, since that will grow noticeably too by design. What helps there is Southwest in growing likely has to look at here more since they can't really grow further at Midway or Love field.
Keeping fingers crossed though that this growth there isn't problems that creep up in terms of security line delays more common here and other crowd issues, since I do wonder how that will go.
I look at the Frontier route map and wonder if it wouldn't make sense for them to look at St Louis for some of its north/west traffic going east bound/FL instead of the spoke from Denver. The same way SWA has been adding flights like Des Moines and Wichita to add connectivity.
https://www.flyfrontier.com/plan-and-book/route-map/
https://www.flyfrontier.com/plan-and-book/route-map/
ATL's not tough to get around. It's just the whole thing with going that far south to go back north. Plus I've been burned there with gate last minute multiple gate switches, lost luggage and weather delays.dredger wrote:Dweebe, why you down on connecting through ATL? Yes, a lot of people but as a frequent business traveler myself I find ATL just as easy or easier than a lot of places. I would say its one of the better Delta hubs. DTW requires a escalator, a train ride if your connecting gate is opposite and a walk through a tunnel if your connecting to a small airport. MSP is a maze unless you know the place well. JFK has gotten a lot better with new terminal but talk about a hike depending on gate and be careful to check departure if on time crunch with the old terminal still in use.
Different airlines and hubs not much better in my opinion. AA had me on two concourses, three plane changes and four gate changes the last time I connected in Dallas trying to get to Mobile.
^ Can certainly understand that. Feeling the same way about American Airlines these days and the not so great experience as of late in and out of Dallas between multiple changed gates, delays and missed connections.
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http://m.stltoday.com/business/local/so ... 2debd.html
Article about continued Southwest expansion.
Interesting quote from airport spokesman saying they are all out of gates- don't they just keep lighting up the old d gates? Tons left.
Article about continued Southwest expansion.
Interesting quote from airport spokesman saying they are all out of gates- don't they just keep lighting up the old d gates? Tons left.
How many gates are left on concourse C? 10? 15? 20? I want to say in the TWA days C went to the 40s.tztag wrote:http://m.stltoday.com/business/local/so ... 2debd.html
Article about continued Southwest expansion.
Interesting quote from airport spokesman saying they are all out of gates- don't they just keep lighting up the old d gates? Tons left.
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I think that was a reference to Terminal 2 gates.tztag wrote:http://m.stltoday.com/business/local/so ... 2debd.html
Article about continued Southwest expansion.
Interesting quote from airport spokesman saying they are all out of gates- don't they just keep lighting up the old d gates? Tons left.
Nice article but curious how much truth in her comments about being on short list or just a way to say they are looking at STL a little more harder this time around.
http://m.stltoday.com/business/local/so ... 2debd.html
Hope again looms that such flights could return. Lambert is on a short list to get flights to London on British Airways and to Frankfurt, Germany, on Lufthansa, Hamm-Niebruegge said.
Lambert came close to securing a London flight a few years ago on British Airways, but was beat out by the Austin-Bergstrom International Airport in Texas. The airline had stressed that the market it chose would need to support selling its more lucrative business-class seats.
A factor in British Airways’ decision was that Austin showed a stronger economy, Hamm-Niebruegge said.
So Lambert is working to highlight economic growth in St. Louis in areas such as technology and bioscience. Airport officials are set to meet this summer with British Airways and Lufthansa to make a pitch to bring them to Lambert.
http://m.stltoday.com/business/local/so ... 2debd.html
Hope again looms that such flights could return. Lambert is on a short list to get flights to London on British Airways and to Frankfurt, Germany, on Lufthansa, Hamm-Niebruegge said.
Lambert came close to securing a London flight a few years ago on British Airways, but was beat out by the Austin-Bergstrom International Airport in Texas. The airline had stressed that the market it chose would need to support selling its more lucrative business-class seats.
A factor in British Airways’ decision was that Austin showed a stronger economy, Hamm-Niebruegge said.
So Lambert is working to highlight economic growth in St. Louis in areas such as technology and bioscience. Airport officials are set to meet this summer with British Airways and Lufthansa to make a pitch to bring them to Lambert.
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^ I think the bigger reason they went with Austin too is that San Antonio is not much more than an hour drive away so they likely combined stats. The other place I heard that also was very close was New Orleans, but I picture they might be hurting a bit economically now due to lower oil prices.
Also think that the airport now is focusing harder on this now due to other priorities having been filled. There was a push for more west coast flights and there has been a significant increase in that the last couple of years. Also talking with more than one airline might make it more likely to happen.
I was wondering, how much of C is left in terms of empty gates? I think what is used is up to C28.
Also think that the airport now is focusing harder on this now due to other priorities having been filled. There was a push for more west coast flights and there has been a significant increase in that the last couple of years. Also talking with more than one airline might make it more likely to happen.
I was wondering, how much of C is left in terms of empty gates? I think what is used is up to C28.
Doesn't it stop right before the ramps up? All of my flights using C have thankfully been low number gates. Those closed gates and the end of C used to be murder.imperialmog wrote:I was wondering, how much of C is left in terms of empty gates? I think what is used is up to C28.
Here's my thinking.
C-gates are all utilized in some shape or form. The last few gates C28 is one of them - are still operational. Yes, they use to have 50 gates crammed into C. When they redid C they added more restaurants and shops, larger bathrooms, larger gate areas with more seating and then lessen the gates to around 28. In fact I flew AA out of one of the gates at the end (up the moving walkway ramps and into the taller section of the concourse) in November to Dallas. The ramps head up into the gate area that use to serve L1011's, 757's and 747's of TWA. It is built up tall to accommodate large airplanes. When Lambert rebuilt Concourse C after the tornado (and part of the renewal plan) they kept the area for larger plans and retrofitted it for 787's. The gate jetways (2 gates) are very tall and provide the capacity for up to 787's.
In the TWA years and prior to the tornado, Lambert removed the international arrivals customs to Terminal 2 E29-E33 to all accommodate the glassed in area for arriving international flights. Departing International flights depart on Concourse C at this time. With Southwest operating these gates and with Lambert retrofitting E33 for 787's arrival / customs and Concourse C - Gates 28 - 30 for 787 departures - I have a very good feeling that Southwest will be adding some international flights to Lambert soon. In addition, Southwest is allowing Lambert to utilize Gate 33 (and possibly all three gates) for international arrivals on other airlines.
That being said, and what I am hearing, we should possibly expect both British Air to London and Lufthansa to Frankfurt by years end or early 2017. Both of these cities (London and Frankfurt) were well served out of Lambert on TWA for many years. Furthermore, they would both link central USA to Europe. Lufthansa just added San Jose, CA to nonstop Frankfurt. There is a lot of vacation travelers to Germany from STL as well as company ties (Monsanto to name one big one).
Concourse C upper Large Gates in Concourse C PRIOR to reconstruction.
C-gates are all utilized in some shape or form. The last few gates C28 is one of them - are still operational. Yes, they use to have 50 gates crammed into C. When they redid C they added more restaurants and shops, larger bathrooms, larger gate areas with more seating and then lessen the gates to around 28. In fact I flew AA out of one of the gates at the end (up the moving walkway ramps and into the taller section of the concourse) in November to Dallas. The ramps head up into the gate area that use to serve L1011's, 757's and 747's of TWA. It is built up tall to accommodate large airplanes. When Lambert rebuilt Concourse C after the tornado (and part of the renewal plan) they kept the area for larger plans and retrofitted it for 787's. The gate jetways (2 gates) are very tall and provide the capacity for up to 787's.
In the TWA years and prior to the tornado, Lambert removed the international arrivals customs to Terminal 2 E29-E33 to all accommodate the glassed in area for arriving international flights. Departing International flights depart on Concourse C at this time. With Southwest operating these gates and with Lambert retrofitting E33 for 787's arrival / customs and Concourse C - Gates 28 - 30 for 787 departures - I have a very good feeling that Southwest will be adding some international flights to Lambert soon. In addition, Southwest is allowing Lambert to utilize Gate 33 (and possibly all three gates) for international arrivals on other airlines.
That being said, and what I am hearing, we should possibly expect both British Air to London and Lufthansa to Frankfurt by years end or early 2017. Both of these cities (London and Frankfurt) were well served out of Lambert on TWA for many years. Furthermore, they would both link central USA to Europe. Lufthansa just added San Jose, CA to nonstop Frankfurt. There is a lot of vacation travelers to Germany from STL as well as company ties (Monsanto to name one big one).
Concourse C upper Large Gates in Concourse C PRIOR to reconstruction.
I'm still at the believe that part of Concourse D needs to go as well as that the mass of tarmac space between Terminal 1 & 2 can be better utilized & configured. Once you do that, you can look at a metrolink realignment with better stations and or offer a separate automated connector between Terminal 1 (Legacy/Frontier/Alaska), a new consolidated rental car facility, and Terminal 2 (Southwest).
I also see no reason why you can't keep international gates at E for Southwest expansion & maybe see if Norwegian would entertain a STL flight and build out or reintroduce international gates at B and or C for British Airways/Lufta. I believe British Air and Lufta both share code with legacy carriers, AA & UA if correct, so why not have a vision to get them gates at same terminal as code share partners. US costums/immigration employees can certainly move between the two concourses just as easily as TSA can go between the different screening points.
I'm also hoping one of these days that Congress is willing to increase the fee that airports can charge passengers from the current $4.50 to something in order of 6.75 to 9.00. That would go long way in getting runways bonds paid off quicker or let Lambert look at a major airport ingress/egress upgrade.
I also see no reason why you can't keep international gates at E for Southwest expansion & maybe see if Norwegian would entertain a STL flight and build out or reintroduce international gates at B and or C for British Airways/Lufta. I believe British Air and Lufta both share code with legacy carriers, AA & UA if correct, so why not have a vision to get them gates at same terminal as code share partners. US costums/immigration employees can certainly move between the two concourses just as easily as TSA can go between the different screening points.
I'm also hoping one of these days that Congress is willing to increase the fee that airports can charge passengers from the current $4.50 to something in order of 6.75 to 9.00. That would go long way in getting runways bonds paid off quicker or let Lambert look at a major airport ingress/egress upgrade.
The C concourse has been renovated as far as C24. Some flights - at peak times - use C27 & C28 which are a trip back in time. I arrived at C28 last night coming back from Miami.dweebe wrote: Doesn't it stop right before the ramps up? All of my flights using C have thankfully been low number gates. Those closed gates and the end of C used to be murder.
Greg
That's not correct. Up until the mid 90s, gate numbering was done across all concourses. A was 1-18. B was 19-27. C was something like 28-52. D started at 60, if I recall correctly. The gates were renumbered so that each concourse began at 1. C then went from 1 to 38, which some numbers skipped.matguy70 wrote:Yes, they use to have 50 gates crammed into C. When they redid C they added more restaurants and shops, larger bathrooms, larger gate areas with more seating and then lessen the gates to around 28.
Not correct. There are a number of gates past the renovated section that are not used (and in some cases don't even have jet bridges installed.C-gates are all utilized in some shape or form.
Looking at Google maps, the following unused gates are striped: C30, C32, C34, C36 and C38 on the north side and C29, C31, C33 and C35 on the south side.
Greg
There is no room in the A or B concourses to put in Immigration & Customs facilities, short of rebuilding the concourses from scratch.dredger wrote:I also see no reason why you can't keep international gates at E for Southwest expansion & maybe see if Norwegian would entertain a STL flight and build out or reintroduce international gates at B and or C for British Airways/Lufta.
PFCs are not -- from what I understand -- allowed to be used to pay off previously built projects, such as the new runway.I'm also hoping one of these days that Congress is willing to increase the fee that airports can charge passengers from the current $4.50 to something in order of 6.75 to 9.00. That would go long way in getting runways bonds paid off quicker or let Lambert look at a major airport ingress/egress upgrade.
Greg
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Looking at Google maps, the following unused gates are striped: C30, C32, C34, C36 and C38 on the north side and C29, C31, C33 and C35 on the south side.
Greg
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Majority of airliners.net commenters -- rather informed aviation enthusiasts -- aren't optimistic about getting European service at Lambert.
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forum ... 9355/1/#42
More than that though, what struck me was just how poorly many people view STL. ouch....
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forum ... 9355/1/#42
More than that though, what struck me was just how poorly many people view STL. ouch....
There are 18 Gates being used on Concourse C. The airlines are: AA, Frontier (Domestic/International Departures), Cape Air, Alaska Air, AirChoice One. Gates Run from C1 to C28 (the last being in the tall jetway area on the east end.) All of these gates are utilized. The gates you speak of are no longer gates and have been removed during the renovations of C and were eliminated with new facilities.
(by the way, if you use Google maps - the map was last updated when Concourse D was still being used for some AA flights after the tornado and C was still getting done and changed back over)
You are correct as of C having C50 - it is now C28.
(by the way, if you use Google maps - the map was last updated when Concourse D was still being used for some AA flights after the tornado and C was still getting done and changed back over)
You are correct as of C having C50 - it is now C28.
And they are all hypothetical. It is the "poor us", "STL - crime worse" or the "STL was TWA" attitude. It gets really old after awhile. Anyone that posts this crap to say airline expansion to any major city is not going to happen is just a plain idiot(s) and trolls.Majority of airliners.net commenters -- rather informed aviation enthusiasts -- aren't optimistic about getting European service at Lambert.
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forum ... 9355/1/#42
More than that though, what struck me was just how poorly many people view STL. ouch....
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Which one of the C gates was redesigned to fit a 787? Since I'm guessing the idea is with what they did for a hypothetical flight is land at E33 to drop people off for customs and then tow over to C for departures, basically what Frontier does now. This would if this flight is BA to depart from the same area as AA and it would not tie down E33 as long for Southwest's needs, which in this scenario is good since the timings of such a flight would allow that gate to be open for peak times of the day. Curious if this noticeable growth the last few months is by people ultimately going overseas or coming from there, since that would really help make the case. (other is if new routes recently stimulated demand here)
There was mention in the Post article about adding another sit down restaurant there. I remember there was talk about Pi looking at an airport location, so maybe that is one possibility. Local flavor would be good. Also think that maybe more tourist info in terminal 2 along with say displays of local attractions would be nice. Since there is and will be an increase in connecting traffic here, that could be a way to market local attractions.
There was mention in the Post article about adding another sit down restaurant there. I remember there was talk about Pi looking at an airport location, so maybe that is one possibility. Local flavor would be good. Also think that maybe more tourist info in terminal 2 along with say displays of local attractions would be nice. Since there is and will be an increase in connecting traffic here, that could be a way to market local attractions.