@imperialmog: I really like United's E175 service from STL to SFO. Would be nice to see this plane replace the smaller regional jet service to the coasts, e.g. to EWR.
gregl wrote:All of these cities can be reached today with a single connection from STL. A non-stop London flight would be only of value to Enterprise and WorldWide Technologies.rbb wrote:There are many companies with headquarters or a significant presence in STL also have European operations, no? Could any benefit from a direct connection? I would think so, but the market would seem to indicate otherwise.
[AB/InBev - A-B Subsidiary headquarters in STL, AB/InBev Operational HQ in NYC, world HQ in Leuven, Belgium
Emerson - World HQ in STL, employs more than 25K across Europe
Enterprise Holdings - World HQ in Clayton, European HQ in Surrey, UK
Mastercard - World HQ in O'Fallon MO, has an European regional HQ in Waterloo, Belgium
Monsanto - NA HQ in Creve Coeur, International HQ in Morges, Switzerland
Nestlé Purina - NA HQ in STL, World HQ in Lausanne, Switzerland
Worldwide Technologies - World HQ in Maryland Heights, has offices in London, UK, and Amsterdam, the Netherlands.
A380s have absolutely nothing to do with how likely STL is to get a European flight. No airline is going to introduce service to STL on an A380 when there is no A380 service to Chicago yet.And the incorporation of 787s and/or A380s into fleets make a direct flight from STL to Europe a more realistic possibility for airlines than in the recent past.
The problem that STL has is that it is just outside the range of a 757 flight to London. A 757 holds about 175 passengers on a trans-Atlantic flight. The smallest aircraft capable of STL-London are the 767 or 787, both of which seat 210-225.
If you have 150 passengers a day, that's a difference between an 86% load factor and a 66-71% load factor -- which is huge.
Greg
It was more that the A380s could manage the flight - meaning the possibility is there at some point in the future. I didn't intend to imply that an airline would premiere their new flagship airbus with a fllght to STL.
Yep, capacity is the issue. Which is why the flights would need to be incentivized. But I think it'd be befeficial on several fronts: the local businesses who fly to Europe would benefit, the flights would be attractive to others businesses considering basing options in St. Louis, Lambert gets another feather in it's International cap, and potentially more flights from other domestic cities could be routed here to take advantage of connecting to the London route, and that would drive up load factors if it occurred.
All that said, I know it's your area of expertise. I don't know nothin' 'bout 'nothin' in this realm.
-RBB
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I'm pretty sure I've taken A380s to and from Chicago. All Nippon Airways and Korean Air if I remember correctly.gregl wrote: No airline is going to introduce service to STL on an A380 when there is no A380 service to Chicago yet.
... err maybe not.
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First off, there are at least 60 companies in STL that regularly send employees overseas...it's the business I'm and I know it for a fact. I believe we have 240 passengers a day that go to Europe. It will take someone who can canvass every company, see what kind of subsidies that individuals can guarantee to an airline, then go forward.
I do wonder though if some of these companies in STL are simply addicted to their own fleet of privies...
I do wonder though if some of these companies in STL are simply addicted to their own fleet of privies...
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Boeing Defense. Boeing has been relying more and more on international sale to Saudi, Israel, South Korea, Turkey, India, etc.rbb wrote:There are many companies with headquarters or a significant presence in STL also have European operations, no? Could any benefit from a direct connection? I would think so, but the market would seem to indicate otherwise.
[AB/InBev - A-B Subsidiary headquarters in STL, AB/InBev Operational HQ in NYC, world HQ in Leuven, Belgium
Emerson - World HQ in STL, employs more than 25K across Europe
Enterprise Holdings - World HQ in Clayton, European HQ in Surrey, UK
Mastercard - World HQ in O'Fallon MO, has an European regional HQ in Waterloo, Belgium
Monsanto - NA HQ in Creve Coeur, International HQ in Morges, Switzerland
Nestlé Purina - NA HQ in STL, World HQ in Lausanne, Switzerland
Worldwide Technologies - World HQ in Maryland Heights, has offices in London, UK, and Amsterdam, the Netherlands
Any others I'm not thinking of? If each could chip in just a bit to subsidize even one direct flight then perhaps that could make it both benefit companies already here as well as making it more feasible for other companies with European presences to consider placing operations of headquarters here. And the incorporation of 787s and/or A380s into fleets make a direct flight from STL to Europe a more realistic possibility for airlines than in the recent past.
-RBB
Why do gates need to be changed for a 787?rbb wrote:Two gates have already been fitted to accept a 787, and Lambert is designated an alternate/backup destination (for ORD IIRC) in the event a flight can't land there for some reason.imperialmog wrote:Not sure if the current international arrival gates could work with say a 787. Maybe that part of the airport might be next for some redoing in part because of this, and also in case Southwest starts doing anything internationally from here.
-RBB
You can already get to India from STL with one-stop. Air India serves both Chicago O'Hare and Newark.CarexCurator wrote:You can connect to anywhere from London. This would be of value to pretty much everybody. We could even fly to India from London. This means not flying to Chicago first for all sorts of destinations.
Greg
My point is that most large European and Western Asian cities can already be reached one-stop from STL. Chicago has service from Air India, Turkish, LOT Polish, Aer Lingus, Air Berlin, Alitalia, Austrian, Emirates, Ethiad, Lufthansa, Royal Jordanian and others.dweebe wrote:[That was my thought: London not as a final destination but as a gateway to the rest of Europe and Western Asia.
Yes, smaller cities in those areas would have one-stop service via LHR.. but that's not a significant source of STL traffic.
Greg
ORD has not yet received A380 service. Both Korean and ANA use 777-300 aircraft to Chicago.CarexCurator wrote:I'm pretty sure I've taken A380s to and from Chicago. All Nippon Airways and Korean Air if I remember correctly.
... err maybe not.
Greg
Which destinations out of the 71 already served at STL would you like to see with larger airplanes?I'd rather see more direct lights to major U.S. destinations on larger/nicer planes, and more direct Canadian, Mexican, and Caribbean destinations than a London flight. What's the point exactly? Prestige?
I would like to see Vancouver and Montreal added.
I think we have pretty good service to the Caribbean and some Mexico. Looks like SWA may be adding some service too soon.
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^ That route being successful for them would help the case to do the same here. I remember seeing the reason that was the test market as it were was the transatlantic traffic from there was more concentrated to London than other places and that San Antonio is only about an hour away by car so it could pull in people from there. The latter point was something the Airport Director here said was a factor. Also saw that route has also been boosted by cargo shipped along, especially stuff trucked over the border from Mexico. That part could be in play here if that dual customs facility is done.
Also remember reading of markets that don't have transatlantic service, St. Louis has noticeably higher traffic than other markets and only New Orleans is of similar numbers. Though in that case it may have dropped in the past year due to oil prices impacting the energy industry there and the stronger dollar hurting tourism demand there from overseas.
Also remember reading of markets that don't have transatlantic service, St. Louis has noticeably higher traffic than other markets and only New Orleans is of similar numbers. Though in that case it may have dropped in the past year due to oil prices impacting the energy industry there and the stronger dollar hurting tourism demand there from overseas.
LaGuardia, Newark, Philly, and D.C. - the crop-dusters that United, American, and Delta fly to those destinations are pretty sad old 3-4 seat wide tin cans.matguy70 wrote: Which destinations out of the 71 already served at STL would you like to see with larger airplanes?
Agreed. I'd also like to see Mexico City, and then domestically Puerto Rico, San Jose, and JFK added, along with year-round service to San Diego.matguy70 wrote:I would like to see Vancouver and Montreal added.
^These are my thoughts exactly. If the point is to fly to all of the major global commercial hubs in just one stop, you can do that today by flying through NYC, Chicago, Dallas, Atlanta or L.A. There's no need to go through London. I guess the best argument is more direct ties to a major global financial center, but I just don't see enough business existing between St. Louis and London to justify a direct flight. Then again, I don't really see the connection between Austin and London, and now they'll be filling up a 777.gregl wrote:My point is that most large European and Western Asian cities can already be reached one-stop from STL. Chicago has service from Air India, Turkish, LOT Polish, Aer Lingus, Air Berlin, Alitalia, Austrian, Emirates, Ethiad, Lufthansa, Royal Jordanian and others.
Yes, smaller cities in those areas would have one-stop service via LHR.. but that's not a significant source of STL traffic.
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Anyone flown Xtra Airways? Apparently they are the charter group for Apple vacations now to Huatuclo Mexcio (direct flight) only in feb and March. Last year went to the same place through apple and it was Froniter charter
United Airlines will be ending service to Cleveland in early May, as it further dismantles it's former hub there. UA currently has 1-2 daily flights on the route. Southwest has announced they will start STL-CLE in early June 1x/daily.
Greg
Greg
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I was surprised United didn't announce it sooner, as in right after Southwest announced they are going to start service. Then again, it might be due to Trans States they had to wait until the former hub is totally dismantled until they end it due to need to cycle planes from here.
Also Thursday Southwest does their next schedule extension covering August to just before Thanksgiving. Considering the last few extensions definitely interested if they announce anything new again, though not sure what that could be at this point. It would be nice if they finally have San Diego year round.
Also Thursday Southwest does their next schedule extension covering August to just before Thanksgiving. Considering the last few extensions definitely interested if they announce anything new again, though not sure what that could be at this point. It would be nice if they finally have San Diego year round.
No new destinations were added out of STL, but one was eliminated (Panama City Beach).imperialmog wrote:Also Thursday Southwest does their next schedule extension covering August to just before Thanksgiving.
Three other markets each lost a flight:
- Boston (3 -> 2)
New Orleans (2 -> 1)
Orlando (4 -> 3)
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Panama City Beach tends to drop off outside of summer and the others are normal post summer reductions, but year over year a sizable increase versus same time last year.
http://www.swamedia.com/releases/southw ... -s?l=en-US
It is noted in this post that they are now making San Diego year round now. Likely not see anything else new for a while due to next couple extensions being slower time of year, that and to digest all of the new routes recently started or will start in coming months. Since this summer will be interesting to see if at certain times of the days the gates are maxed out,, especially if weather is bad here or in other places.
http://www.swamedia.com/releases/southw ... -s?l=en-US
It is noted in this post that they are now making San Diego year round now. Likely not see anything else new for a while due to next couple extensions being slower time of year, that and to digest all of the new routes recently started or will start in coming months. Since this summer will be interesting to see if at certain times of the days the gates are maxed out,, especially if weather is bad here or in other places.
Well... it is official. Southwest has expanded E gates to 31 and 33. Lambert has ripped out the old floors lighting interior all the way to D concourse. SWA now will have permanent use of the gates and they installed the new jet way systems this week. Including E33 to accommodate 787 aircraft for international flights.
Outbound SWA flights will use both gates and international flights will also use both gates as they enter into Customs area under E.
Hints: Watch for British Air nonstop EU service soon.
Also watch for new food court west into D.
http://flystl.com/Newsroom/Blog/tabid/4 ... -Week.aspx
Outbound SWA flights will use both gates and international flights will also use both gates as they enter into Customs area under E.
Hints: Watch for British Air nonstop EU service soon.
Also watch for new food court west into D.
http://flystl.com/Newsroom/Blog/tabid/4 ... -Week.aspx
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I liked this line from the should-be-obvious department: "Lambert worked with Southwest on the configuration of the these jet bridges to ensure safe operations for arriving and departing aircraft." Much better than "The expanded gates require planes to taxi through the food court."matguy70 wrote:Well... it is official. Southwest has expanded E gates to 31 and 33. Lambert has ripped out the old floors lighting interior all the way to D concourse. SWA now will have permanent use of the gates and they installed the new jet way systems this week. Including E33 to accommodate 787 aircraft for international flights.
Outbound SWA flights will use both gates and international flights will also use both gates as they enter into Customs area under E.
Hints: Watch for British Air nonstop EU service soon.
Also watch for new food court west into D.
http://flystl.com/Newsroom/Blog/tabid/4 ... -Week.aspx
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^ That would be kind of cool though.
Wait, did somebody say British Air non-stop to EU?!!!!?!!!?
Wait, did somebody say British Air non-stop to EU?!!!!?!!!?
This is as painful as those decade-long IKEA rumors.roger wyoming II wrote:Wait, did somebody say British Air non-stop to EU?!!!!?!!!?
Please already, just announce a route........
The point about accommodating 787s in Terminal 2 is curious to me. I can't imagine Southwest operating a 787 at STL since they don't currently own/operate any. BA route to LHR makes sense but I thought they upgraded a gate at the end of the C concourse for this purpose? Would they really put BA, with theoretical connections/codeshares with AA, in Terminal 2?
Unless, since everywhere AA flies to from STL already has LHR service, they are expecting some WN/SWA-BA LHR transfers?
Unless, since everywhere AA flies to from STL already has LHR service, they are expecting some WN/SWA-BA LHR transfers?
Good question!
Here's why...
Concourse C can accept 787 planes but currently can only board / depart international flights.
Reason: all international arriving flights MUST utilize Lamberts custom/immigration arrival gates in Terminal 2 E-gates. They have the secured jet ways that lead to Lamberts newer Customs/Immigration center on the lower level from those gates.
All international flights now depart from Concourse C but all arrive in E for.processing.
Here's why...
Concourse C can accept 787 planes but currently can only board / depart international flights.
Reason: all international arriving flights MUST utilize Lamberts custom/immigration arrival gates in Terminal 2 E-gates. They have the secured jet ways that lead to Lamberts newer Customs/Immigration center on the lower level from those gates.
All international flights now depart from Concourse C but all arrive in E for.processing.
VIDEO:
Lambert Airport emerging with strong business plan for success
POSTED 10:56 PM, FEBRUARY 23, 2016, BY VIC FAUST
Lambert Airport emerging with strong business plan for success
POSTED 10:56 PM, FEBRUARY 23, 2016, BY VIC FAUST