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PostOct 30, 2015#2101

So... dinner in Valencia and back is for leisure. Must be hard.
:shock:

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PostOct 30, 2015#2102

At least with the one example the Little Rock is one where service is returning.

The Valencia example does show one plus a transatlantic flight would have, in it would allow for one-stop service instead of two-stop service to a number of places. Hopefully any such service would be timed really well for connections.

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PostOct 30, 2015#2103

matguy70 wrote:So... dinner in Valencia and back is for leisure. Must be hard.
:shock:
. Leisure?

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PostDec 08, 2015#2104

Just saw Southwest's website since today is their peak summer schedule release, it looks like they are adding non-stops to Cleveland, Oakland, and Portland. (funny all end in -land) Not sure if its summer seasonal or not. Their new scheduling system seems to like St. Louis. The normal frequency increases of a 3rd Boston and 2nd Raleigh (which is normally 2nd half of year) pop back. Wonder if the Boston one this time will stick due to other adds here recently and its likely JetBlue is looking into that route.

I did notice timings on new service too. Looks like the Oakland one is different time of day from the current SFO flight. (OAK leaves late morning) The Portland one is surprising considering Alaska started that this past summer (this smells seasonal due to this), but it does leave about 2 hours earlier than the existing Alaska service (and both have connecting flow on one end). I wonder if this was done as a response to Alaska starting the 2nd Seattle flight earlier next year by starting in Mid-April and all 7 days a week from 4-5 last summer (this was done just after Southwest announced they are flying that year-round)

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PostDec 08, 2015#2105

imperialmog wrote:Just saw Southwest's website since today is their peak summer schedule release, it looks like they are adding non-stops to Cleveland, Oakland, and Portland. (funny all end in -land) Not sure if its summer seasonal or not.
They indicate they will be permanent... I'd be surprised to see PDX stick year-round.

BOS, DEN, ECP & RDU gain 1x daily. PHX loses 1x daily.

Greg

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PostDec 08, 2015#2106

So additional Nonstop Southwest Flights to begin serving STL in 2016 up to June are:

CLEVELAND
DES MOINES
LITTLE ROCK
PITTSBURGH
PORTLAND, OR
OAKLAND, CA
SEATTLE
WICHITA
Orange County, CA just began last month.

ALL are year round and not seasonal. As for PDX (Portland, OR) it is now a top seller for STL. Alaska offers nonstop service to PDX as of this past summer and their flights are completely sold out usually and somewhat pricey at times. So competition will be good there.

Southwest Airlines will climb to 103 daily departures from STL to 43 non-stop destinations.

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PostDec 09, 2015#2107

^Damn. I don't know anything about airline industry route planning, but that seems like a whole lot of new non-stops.

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PostDec 09, 2015#2108

I, for one, get a little tired of hearing STL is not "connected". Here is STL's non-stop flight destinations (after above SWA non-stop cities added).

Lambert St. Louis International Airport Nonstop Domestic/International Flight Arrival and Departure Cities:
Total: 71 Nonstop Destinations STL

Albuquerque, NM
Atlanta, GA
Austin, TX
Baltimore, MD
Burlington, IA
Boston, MA
Cancun, MX
Cape Girardeau, MO
Charlotte, NC
Chicago, IL (Midway)
Chicago, IL (O'Hare)
Cincinnati, OH
Cleveland, OH
Columbus, OH
Dallas, TX (DFW)
Dallas, TX (Love Field)
Decatur, IL
Denver, CO
Detroit, MI
Des Moines, IA
Fort Dodge, IA
Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Ft. Leonard Wood, MO
Ft. Myers, FL
Grand Rapids, MI
Houston, TX (Hobby)
Houston, Texas (Intercontinental)
Huatulco, MX
Jackson, TN
Jonesboro, AR
Kansas City, MO
Kirksville, MO
Las Vegas, NV
Little Rock, AR
Los Angeles, CA
Marion, IL
Mason City, IA
Miami, FL
Milwaukee, WI
Minneapolis, MN
Montego Bay, Jamaica
Nashville, TN
New Orleans, LA
New York, NY (LaGuardia)
Newark, NJ
Oakland, CA
Oklahoma City, OK
Omaha, NE
Orange County/Santa Ana, CA
Orlando, FL
Owensboro, KY
Panama City (FL)
Philadelphia, PA
Phoenix, AZ
Pittsburgh, PA
Portland, OR
Punta Cana, DO
Puerto Vallarta, MX
Quincy, IL
Raleigh/Durham, NC
Salt Lake City, UT
San Diego, CA
San Antonio, TX
San Francisco, CA
Seattle, WA
Tampa, FL
Toronto, Canada
Tulsa, OK
Washington, DC (Dulles)
Washington, DC (National)
Wichita, KS

I would like to see Southwest (or another airline add the following old TWA non-stop destinations back to STL)

Knoxville, TN (SWA ended a few years ago due to low numbers)
Birmingham, AL (SWA ended a few years ago due to low numbers)
Anchorage, AK (would like to see Alaska air add - but AK connects most through PDX or SEA)
Vancouver (possibly Air Canada)
Honolulu (Maybe AA or if SWA gets in)
Jacksonville, FL (SWA add - however, this airport is very low service by most airlines)
San Juan, PR (would like to see SWA add)
London, UK (it is just a matter of time - most likely British Air)

These non-stops have all ended recently due to low passenger numbers. These cities are just too close (IMO).

Memphis, TN (Delta just ended when they dehubbed Memphis)
Louisville, KY (SWA ended a few years ago due to low numbers)

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PostDec 09, 2015#2109

matguy70 wrote: ...I would like to see Southwest (or another airline add the following old TWA non-stop destinations back to STL)...

...Honolulu (Maybe AA or if SWA gets in)...
This post is Barack and Michelle approved. <hic> :wink:

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PostDec 09, 2015#2110

matguy70 wrote: Honolulu (Maybe AA or if SWA gets in)
I like your list - except for this one. Hawaii sounds nice but in reality it's not a good option. I'd rather see all the other cities on your list before this one.

SWA can't do it. I believe the only 737 that could do STL-HNL is the 737-700ER which SWA does not operate.
AA might could do it with a 757 but that would be a stretch. They'd probably have to use a low-density plane to save weight, but I doubt that would generate enough revenue. They could easily do it with a widebody but I don't think STL has the capacity to support a widebody yet.

And more importantly... why? It's a long flight and Hawaii routes get the worst planes - typically the oldest planes with the most dense seating configuration. 8+ hours is a long time to be stuck in a crappy plane. I'd rather connect via LAX or SFO. Then there is time to stretch and grab some lunch.

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PostDec 09, 2015#2111

matguy70 wrote:Nashville, TN (SWA ended a few years ago due to low numbers)
SWA has two flights a day to Nashville.

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PostDec 09, 2015#2112

That route from what people I know tends to be crowded. Also St. Louis-Nashville route is important for connections on either end networkwise. It also likely doesn't have the negative effect on local demand due to distance due to being a little further out than say KC or Chicago along with their airport and metro sprawl is the opposite end of the metro relative to St. Louis.

Really surprised they said the PDX flight is year round, considering Alaska only started that this past summer. Especailly considering they still only operate San Diego seasonally. (I'm wondering if that's the next thing to change) Maybe that stimulated demand to where it can both be supported, that and with the new scheduling system and new service coming up they could also be having a lot of feed connecting here to use it too. Also there does seem to be more interest in people I know in taking business or personal trips to the west coast, and interesting in the airport's article stating that more west coast service has been their focus lately. It would be interesting to compare overall west coast service is by all airlines between summer 2011 and 2016.

Its a bit surprising that a lot of Southwest's schedule changes lately involved new St. Louis routes. (3 of the 5 routes announced this week was) I did see next summer they will have 103 flights to 43 destinations a day. It will be interesting is how successful this ramp up will be and if It feeds on itself where some places could need more frequency (or at least seeing more 737-800s) and further new places.

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PostDec 10, 2015#2113

KevinAdams wrote: SWA can't do it. I believe the only 737 that could do STL-HNL is the 737-700ER which SWA does not operate. AA might could do it with a 757 but that would be a stretch.
TWA used to operate STL-HNL on the 757. Westbound it required a technical stop for fuel @ LAX. The return flight was non-stop.

I guarantee you AA will never launch that route.

Greg

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PostDec 10, 2015#2114

TWA also flew a 747 to HNL. I'll never forget how excited I was as a kid to sit up top in the bubble as I called it.

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PostDec 10, 2015#2115

I really don't know how I missed those Nashville nonstops. Sorry about that. Fixed list.

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PostDec 10, 2015#2116

moorlander wrote:TWA also flew a 747 to HNL. I'll never forget how excited I was as a kid to sit up top in the bubble as I called it.
Yep, I also flew on the 747 as a kid, though I was down on the main level with the other commoners. :wink:

-RBB

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PostJan 07, 2016#2117

Frontier adding flights to Atlanta three days a week in April:

http://www.flystl.com/Newsroom/Blog/tab ... Louis.aspx

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PostJan 29, 2016#2118

Lambert traffic was up 2.9% in 2015 to 12.7 million passengers.

Southwest has just over 50% of the airport traffic, American has 20%, Delta has 14%.

In all, Lambert will have service to more than 70 cities by mid-Summer. Compare that to other former hubs like CVG, PIT or MEM!

Greg

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PostJan 29, 2016#2119

gregl wrote:Compare that to other former hubs like CVG, PIT or MEM!
I don't know how. :(

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PostJan 29, 2016#2120

Looking at the article it seems most of the increase was concentrated at the end of the year. Which would make sense due to until the latter part of October last year the year over year comparison would have involved the decrease in traffic due to the end of restrictions at Love Field in Dallas. Next year is likely to be a larger increase as a result along with a sizable number of new Southwest service so far announced this year. (I think next summer will have 10-12 more flights a day on Southwest)

Isn't there a good argument St. Louis is doing much better than other former hubs in terms of what is here? Most of the other ones don't even have non-stops routes to all of the AA/US/DL hubs among other domestic service gaps. Here if I'm not mistaken of any non local domestic route that was served in the TWA days, there are only a handful or so of those not served now and a really nice overall increase service to the west coast. Only real noticeable holes is year round to San Diego (really baffling with what Southwest is doing here this year) and a transatlantic route.

Also interesting note is AA seems to be doing a redeye flight from LAX to here this summer, I don't remember that happening before but likely due their shuffle there. And their LAX flights next summer look really well timed to connect for the transpacific flights.

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PostJan 29, 2016#2121

airliners.net speculating that with next WN schedule release in Feb, STL will gain directs to Cancun and Puerto Vallarta

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forum ... n/6613064/

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PostJan 29, 2016#2122

Someone needs to start a virtual hub airline website that rounds up and shows only all the nonstops out of STL, as if it were the old TWA hub.

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PostJan 30, 2016#2123

^ closest guess could be wikipedia since its mostly accurate and also to see between other cities in terms of service. interesting would be to compare it with say some old TWA route maps. I think its outside the close in stuff (which is really different now than then due to TSA and higher speed limits decreasing demand) almost every domestic place is served.

Next Southwest schedule extension might be something to watch, since the last few were very St. Louis focused in adding things so maybe some new places and/or increase in flights to places over same time last year. The latter might be needed if they are basically adding feeder routes here this year that will likely be heavy on connecting traffic.

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PostJan 31, 2016#2124

I picked up a copy of Active Lifestyles St. Louis Magazine today and they had a really good read (article) on page 17 on St. Louis International Transformed.
Here ya go: http://issuu.com/activelifestylesmag/do ... _issue_web
and then flip to Page 17. I picked it up at a coffee house.

PostJan 31, 2016#2125

I can also try to shed some light on STL's health these days.

In short; it is good.

In 1999: TWA offered 105 nonstop flights from STL - this was the most nonstop destinations STL offered ever. Most were on TWA large planes, however about 32 of those destinations were TWexpress Midwest puddle jumper planes (most non-jet at the time) and to markets like Sioux City, Davenport etc... Some of these markets the TWexpress served are now being service out of STL nonstop by Air Choice One and Cape Air.

That being said, Lambert STL now has (Jan 2016) 71 nonstop destinations from STL. This includes ALL ten airlines offering service to/from Lambert. This is the MOST Lambert STL has offered since American/TWA pulled their hub.

It is good to note that 45 of these nonstop destinations are on Southwest today (which means that those 45 are all on 737 mainline large aircraft) Southwest's only aircraft. Then of the 26 nonstop destinations offered by other airlines out of Lambert STL - 15 are offered on Large mainline aircraft (Boeing or MD aircraft) and the 11 last are offered on smaller aircraft (most jet service - Embraer) and few on prop (mainly your Midwest / Midsouth destinations on Cape Air and Air Choice One).

Now, breaking that down... St. Louisans need to rethink their "story" that STL is an airport that no longer has mainstream aircraft and many nonstop destinations - it is pure and simple NO LONGER TRUE!

71 nonstop destinations in not to be balked at! In fact, out of the largest 40 airports in the USA - only two do not have service from STL: Salt Lake City or San Jose, CA In addition, only a few airports in the top 50 USA airports have no nonstop service to STL.
Breaking that sentence down... The 10 airlines serving 71 nonstop destinations from STL today (Jan 2016) service ALL of TWA's nonstop cities (listed in the top 40 USA) except Salt Lake City and San Jose, CA.

Now again, that being said, it is TWA's TWexpress cities that have suffered no service and those are what mainline hubs sually service for the hub airlines through partnerships with their express carriers. I would have to break down the stats on the TWA's 40 Midwest/Midsouth TWexpress destinations that are no longer served... but here are a few that ARE being served nonstop today:
Cape Girardeau, Fort Leonard Wood, Kirksville, Marion, Owensboro, Quincy, Burlington (IA), Decatur (IL), Fort Dodge (IA), Jackson (TN), Jonesboro (AR), Mason City (IA)
SO if you look at these smaller TWexpress cities and hypothetically do the math... 40 TWexpress Midwest nonstop minus today's express nonstop (on smaller planes/airlines) 12 would equal 28 very small markets (like Shreveport and Sioux City IA) not being served nonstop from STL.

SO when I hear companies say that STL lacks air service to destinations - I really think they are no educated on the hub before and now status at STL. That is plain hogwash.

Another complaint is with STLians is there is not as many nonstop daily frequency. Well guess what folks, after 911 airlines across the country CUT frequencies (even at their hubs). Prior to 911, airlines were flying gas guzzlers with 25 percent filled planes (look at the planes that went down on 911 - all of them were big planes with very few passengers on each - God Bless them all.) Point being, ALL of the legacy airlines (what's left) are operating at a fraction of domestic nonstop frequency they were in 2001. The industry dropped frequency and gas guzzlers for smaller planes and fewer nonstop times from every airport in the country. This is why almost every flight you make today on USA carriers is almost full. This is also why Southwest is the largest domestic airline carrying more passengers in domestically than any of the "legacy" lines (left).

Now, translating that paragraph - STL STILL favors strongly having the country's LARGEST domestic carrier offering mainstream aircraft with over 45 nonstop destinations nationwide. Southwest calls them "focal cities" but more and more they are having to become point to point from certain airport and STL can pretty much be called one of their largest "hubs" if you will.

LAMBERT ST. LOUIS INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT: 71 NONSTOP DESTINATIONS
[#31 in 2015 busiest USA] - this will most likely increase possibly into the top 30 in 2016.


Looking at the other former hubs and their nonstop service:

Pittsburgh (former USairways) now has 39 nonstop destinations
[#44 busiest in USA]
Cincinnati (former Delta) now has 49 (dropping more this year and almost half of these are on Delta's express small planes)
[#54 busiest in USA]
Cleveland (former Continental/United) now has 39 nonstop destinations
[#47 busiest in USA]

In comparison to:

Kansas City has 43 nonstop destinations
[#36 busiest in USA]
Nashville has 50 nonstop destinations
[#33 busiest in USA]
New Orleans has 49 nonstop destinations
[#37 busiest in USA]
Indianapolis has 32 nonstop destinations
[#48 busiest in USA]

Also in perspective:
Detroit, Minneapolis, Houston (Intercontinental), Philadelphia and Washington Dulles have all LOST passenger traffic (in the millions) in the past 2 years. ALL of these airports were larger hubs for their original airlines before takeovers. Albeit, still hubs for the merged airlines but passenger numbers and service numbers down.
Detroit (Delta former Northwest)
Minneapolis (Delta former Northwest)
Houston Inercontinenta (United former Continental)
Philadelphia (American former USairways)
Washington Dulles (United)

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