urbanSTL

For the 2nd morning in the last 10 days I've witnessed the 2nd security line open for terminal 2. This place is a zoo.


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Does STL have any catering services that could support overseas flights?

Randy wrote:Does STL have any catering services that could support overseas flights?

Yes, there is catering available at STL. How do you think they serve meals on flights to places like LAX, SEA or MIA?

Greg

Imperial, another option for the immediate future is to demo D and in its place build a smaller international concourse D with a second US Customs & immigration area that ties into or drops off in front of the screening area for Concourse C. I think you could add some international gates within easy walking distance and direct access to C gates with out going in and out of security at a fraction of the cost and minor modifications to existing C concourse. Also, no reason why US customs and immigration officials can't move between E and new D gate facilities just as TSA screeners can easily be moved to where the need is greatest

dredger wrote: I think you could add some international gates within easy walking distance and direct access to C gates with out going in and out of security at a fraction of the cost and minor modifications to existing C concourse.

All international passengers who go through immigration and then are taking an on-going flight must then go through security screening. During the immigration & customs process, passengers have access to checked luggage which could contain items not allowed inside the aircraft cabin.

The obvious exception is for international arrivals which go through customs & immigration at the time of departure (think the Bahamas and some Canadian cities).

A few airports have badly designed immigration facilities where even passengers not connecting on to another flight must go through security as the only exit from the immigration facilities is to a secured concourse. STL's Concourse C immigration facility was like that. MSP's is as well.

Greg

^ Yes, understand the process itself but don't believe I'm articulating what my thoughts are. What I'm trying t say is that Lambert should bulldoze D and give itself a clean slate to work off for the future, whether it be Terminal 1 international gates and or on the other end with International Gates/Terminal 2.

With a clean slate you could easily design, engineer and build something that makes sense for airlines who would prefer to have Terminal 1 international departures and arrivals such that an AA passenger say from Dallas can walk over from C and board a BA code share flight to London because their was a deal to have online connecting via STL or say an inbound Frontier passenger catching a connecting Cancun flight without going in and out of TSA. At the same time, understand that any inbound/disembarking international passenger will have to go through US Customs & Immigration but after that they can have the option of heading to the baggage or stay within the secured area to catch a flight back to Dallas @ C gate

Why not just re-open D as a walk through connecting C & E gates? Is the terminal in too poor of shape for pass through traffic? All gates, retail spaces and bathrooms could be sealed and just add long moving walkways to move passengers quickly.

Is there room to add a walkway between A, B & C inside of TSA security, or was all the space taken up by the terminal 1 downstairs remodel?

dredger wrote:With a clean slate you could easily design, engineer and build something that makes sense for airlines who would prefer to have Terminal 1 international departures and arrivals such that an AA passenger say from Dallas can walk over from C and board a BA code share flight to London because their was a deal to have online connecting via STL.

This could be done by using Concourse C Customs Facilities (although it would require any passengers terminating in STL to clear security to exit the terminal).

or say an inbound Frontier passenger catching a connecting Cancun flight without going in and out of TSA. [...] At the same time, understand that any inbound/disembarking international passenger [...] could stay within the secured area to catch a flight back to Dallas @ C gate

In either of these two instances, they have to clear a TSA checkpoint -- whether it be the main concourse checkpoint or one leading out of the immigration & customs facility.

Greg

If anyone knows what the new restaurant or food court items are, I'd like to know!

I don't know where they have space in that corridor for that.

I think there is some space right across where the E29, 31, and 33 are if not mistaken. And mentioning space. I'm guessing if they ever did have to reopen at least part of D, they might not have as many gates as before due to space for stores and restaurants. I'm guessing they have talked to Southwest on what the plan in the scenario of future growth necessitating a partial D reopen. Only question then becomes if that occurs how will the operations like luggage and security work. Since I picture there could be issues with luggage handling and security lines being more an issue due to D not being operationally connected to E by design. Also picture at this point its a bad idea to demolish D due to the last gates before it are taken now, that and a rebuild and redesign would be more costs while still paying down runway debt.

Interesting is noticing too it seems Southwest is changing its business model a bit over time, since the way the routes starting today are set up, they are very well timed for connections here which seems to be something they are looking at a bit more to where in some areas going towards a bit of a hub and spoke system.

Would it really not be worth it to remodel D to connect to E, if it means more SWA flights, etc.? If SWA wants to add flights, would it be cheaper to build new gates on the other side?

Of course D used to connect to E and you could walk between the teriminals. And at one time there was a shuttle that went across the tarmac from a gate near the end of C over to D for folks who didn't want to walk from their gate at C all the way around to a gate at D.

So on Google Maps I see that they tore down a building just East of Terminal 2 that used to be part of the Cargo facility. What is going in there? Why wouldn't the airport save that space for extending the East end of Terminal 2 concourse for more SW Airline gates?

With the B787 efficiency and cost per seat savings, now would it be possible for Lambert to get a flight to Asia? I remember the days when TWA had planned flights to Tokyo-Narita in part because Toyota has the Bodine casting factory in Troy, MO.

Columbus is seeking to get direct flights to Asia.

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories ... -asia.html#

That article also mentions Port Columbus seeking service with British Airways too.

10-intuition wrote:With the B787 efficiency and cost per seat savings, now would it be possible for Lambert to get a flight to Asia? I remember the days when TWA had planned flights to Tokyo-Narita in part because Toyota has the Bodine casting factory in Troy, MO.

There is no chance of Asia service from STL in the near future. TWA's requested authority was far-fetched at the time and nothing has changed since then.

Columbus is seeking to get direct flights to Asia.

Looking at the passenger figures from CMH, they do not have the passenger numbers to even consider a flight to Asia.

Greg

I picture it would be at least a decade before there is a real chance of any non-stop service to Asia. I think there is at this point only about half as much traffic to and from there to here than there is Europe, and its further away. That is likely something to not even start looking at much until after a transatlantic route starts and is established.

As to the demolished building near terminal 2, that is where parking lot E was placed. That lot was needed due to how filled up the terminal 2 garage is these days. As to going into concourse D, it seems like I saw pictures of the renovated area now used, is signs in pictures referring to E gates to 40? That seems odd considering they only added E 31 and E33. Guessing its for looking out in case of future gates needed, but that also implies they aren't going to tear down D with that. (and also not calling those gates D#)

10-intuition wrote:With the B787 efficiency and cost per seat savings, now would it be possible for Lambert to get a flight to Asia?

I think the answer to this is about the same as the discussion of flights to Europe, except even less likely to happen.

Sure, a 787 can go to Asia. i think Singapore is too far, but Honk Kong is about the same as LAX-MEL (Melbourne, Aus) which is a 787. Mainland China would be closer. The question is why would an airline want to fly STL to Asia? STL either needs to be a hub, or needs to generate enough business to warrant a flight.

It's great that Lambert want's to get international flights, but the whole city needs to want it. It might happen if St. Louis decides to position itself as a hub for business with Asia, or a new tech hub, or something else that would drive enough business demand. But the way things currently are, I don't expect it to happen.

Southwest profit up 13%. Expansion to slow in 2017. Will go from fleet of 704 (end of 2015) to 720 (end of 2016).

http://www.reuters.com/article/southwes ... SL2N17O0C6

Flew Southwest out of Terminal 2 on Friday morning and the security line was wrapped around all the way back to the 'overflow' security gates. I was surprised that the 'overflow' gates weren't open. The TSA agent told me that it's been this crowded the entire week. Nice to see the apparent volume increase.

I've heard stories and also comments from coworkers that it has been crowded at security a lot lately, especially at terminal 2. There have been news stories on TSA not having enough workers nationally as well. Wonder If part of this is that a chokepoint is occurring with it in Terminal 2 due to the rapid growth and that they are using more 737-800 which was not a part of the equation when the terminal was built. Though would note that likely a good amount of the traffic growth this year in terminal 2 is connections so that wouldn't contribute.

It seems the Southwest growth next year being slower is due to FAA rules and the introduction of the 737max. Likely there won't be much growth from them here next year considering significant increase this year. Likely further growth might be add frequencies to places already served and adding smaller places that needed extra flights in their system, but preferred adding here to say another MDW frequency. This would make sense focus more on transatlantic now considering that and just no real holes domestically left, especially compared to other cities seeking transatlantic (and even some that do have them have noticeable domestic holes not present here)

^ I think the other way you could look at it is that people did not or not wiling to pull out the wallet for the pre-screening option. A lot of travelers like myself are happy about the occasional TSA pre-check when I get it on some of my Delta flights. I would get TSA Pre-check consistently with my Delta status but now that is even spotty and just adds one more frequent flyer to a line near you. However, I have no desire on spending money, not even my companies money, for TSA fees. Even more so now when the TSA now has a +15 year history of my constant business travels since 9/11 and absolutely no basis for not sending me through the pre-check.

OK, done with my rant that TSA is govt jobs program first and security program second Unfortunately, I doubt will see a President as strong as Reagan, who will go tell TSA to go pound sand on behalf of the American taxpayer, traveler