My boss claims he took a 767 a few weeks ago MIA >> STL on AA. But he also said his ORD >> MCO run at the start of the trip was on one of those Embraer 145s. Kind of strange.
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In consideration of SWA in STL, I look to the following...
- The US Airways/American Airlines merger will likely pass and be based out of DFW. This will very much be the largest airline running out of the US, I believe with 1,400 jets between the two. This will be an incredible amount of aircraft flying out of one hub, and consolidation can be expected across the US. It's reasonable to think STL, and even ORD, will lose flights to DFW. Total airspace around Dallas-Fort Worth is about to be completely congested.
- The Wright Amendment's repeal will lead to a decrease in LUV's maximum gate capacity, dropping total gates from 32 to 20. SWA has rights to 16 of these gates; the other 4 were to be split between American and Continental. While the Wright Amendment's repeal will allow for nonstop flights there for SWA, it doesn't exactly open up that airport to becoming a giant.
- SWA has recently had to operate outside of the East Terminal (where they already have all the gates under their control) at times of high travel, reaching into the adjacent D Concourse for temporary gate usage. Meanwhile, D Concourse still is largely mothballed and has yet to undergo the reconstructions/rehabilitations that Concourses A, B, and C have undergone. It is very much in need of more than a couple coats of paint, especially as the largest airliner at STL has been needing to expand into Concourse D not so long ago.
- Concourse D has so much extra capacity that's just begging for an airline to come in and get some gates going again.
- The US Airways/American Airlines merger will likely pass and be based out of DFW. This will very much be the largest airline running out of the US, I believe with 1,400 jets between the two. This will be an incredible amount of aircraft flying out of one hub, and consolidation can be expected across the US. It's reasonable to think STL, and even ORD, will lose flights to DFW. Total airspace around Dallas-Fort Worth is about to be completely congested.
- The Wright Amendment's repeal will lead to a decrease in LUV's maximum gate capacity, dropping total gates from 32 to 20. SWA has rights to 16 of these gates; the other 4 were to be split between American and Continental. While the Wright Amendment's repeal will allow for nonstop flights there for SWA, it doesn't exactly open up that airport to becoming a giant.
- SWA has recently had to operate outside of the East Terminal (where they already have all the gates under their control) at times of high travel, reaching into the adjacent D Concourse for temporary gate usage. Meanwhile, D Concourse still is largely mothballed and has yet to undergo the reconstructions/rehabilitations that Concourses A, B, and C have undergone. It is very much in need of more than a couple coats of paint, especially as the largest airliner at STL has been needing to expand into Concourse D not so long ago.
- Concourse D has so much extra capacity that's just begging for an airline to come in and get some gates going again.
Any guess on when or if we'll have some idea of what goes down in the meeting tomorrow?
I can't imagine what sort of complete cluster-f things will be like when storms hit the Dallas area.gone corporate wrote:In consideration of SWA in STL, I look to the following...
- The US Airways/American Airlines merger will likely pass and be based out of DFW. This will very much be the largest airline running out of the US, I believe with 1,400 jets between the two. This will be an incredible amount of aircraft flying out of one hub, and consolidation can be expected across the US. It's reasonable to think STL, and even ORD, will lose flights to DFW. Total airspace around Dallas-Fort Worth is about to be completely congested.
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I would speculate they'll be talking about expanding operations at Lambert.jstriebel wrote:Any guess on when or if we'll have some idea of what goes down in the meeting tomorrow?
Meetings between officials from airports/cities/air carriers are routine occurrences, just like in other industries. Many meetings take place and no new service materializes, it is about maintaining relationships for future opportunities. Officials at MIA have been meeting with Emirates for many years and nothing has materialized. Similarly they have also been meeting with El Al regularly since service was suspended in 2008. STL officials have met with BA and other carriers in the past. It's just a normal course of business.
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KMOX reported this morning, that Southwest officials predict more international flights in general, some for St. Louis. They listed Mexico, the Carribean, South & Central America, as possible destinations for Southwest flights from here. They did not think a flight to Europe would happen anytime soon. They had a lot of positive things to say. I cannot find an article on the CBS Local site. Good news nonetheless!
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I would love flights to Latin America. I dislike taking AA through Miami. Miami may rival Newark for Meanest Airport.
I do everything I can to avoid MIA. I've never thought of using that term, but "meanest" is a very apt description.Presbyterian wrote:I would love flights to Latin America. I dislike taking AA through Miami. Miami may rival Newark for Meanest Airport.
One time at MIA we raced in to beat a thunderstorm. We landed, they offloaded our luggage but when the storm hit they just left it on the open cart/tarmac to get soaked, When we went to complain at Lost Luggage the gal at the counter yelled at us all for not having waterproof luggage and everything inside baggies for further protection.
Obviously gits into their Airtran acquisition and market already served.
My family took Airtran to Mexico City this summer. Nothing special about the flight and plane was showing its age with lack of TLC. However, the price was tough to beat, was able to go out of OAK instead of SFO on SWA and the best part was that Airtran had some good time slots in and out of Mexico City. Had to connect through Orange County/John Wayne but was a lot easier on our family than trying to United midnight flight even if it was direct.
My family took Airtran to Mexico City this summer. Nothing special about the flight and plane was showing its age with lack of TLC. However, the price was tough to beat, was able to go out of OAK instead of SFO on SWA and the best part was that Airtran had some good time slots in and out of Mexico City. Had to connect through Orange County/John Wayne but was a lot easier on our family than trying to United midnight flight even if it was direct.
I have been flying AA from/through MIA on a regular basis for 20+ years and never had a problem. The facilities are first rate, AA and Dade County have invested over $1 billion in the North Terminal project. AA's route network and MIA hub is the envy of the industry and an incredibly profitable and well run operation. Sorry you guys have had such poor experiences.
STL Caribbean flying? Means nothing. Wouldn't surprise me if they added seasonal Saturday service to CUN or SJU but WN has made considerable investments at HOU for FIS facilities to support international flying, don't count on STL becoming a major gateway, FLL and HOU will serve that role in their network.
STL Caribbean flying? Means nothing. Wouldn't surprise me if they added seasonal Saturday service to CUN or SJU but WN has made considerable investments at HOU for FIS facilities to support international flying, don't count on STL becoming a major gateway, FLL and HOU will serve that role in their network.
While the North Terminal at MIA is finally approaching 1st World status after a decade of being a clusterf... that made you feel like a rat in maze, it still leaves plenty to be desired. I arrived into MIA last summer from Belize... took over 90 minutes to clear customs and immigration. Never had that happen at any other airport. That was the day before the new Customs facilities opened... and the delays were even worse once it opened.JAL007 wrote:I have been flying AA from/through MIA on a regular basis for 20+ years and never had a problem. The facilities are first rate, AA and Dade County have invested over $1 billion in the North Terminal project. AA's route network and MIA hub is the envy of the industry and an incredibly profitable and well run operation. Sorry you guys have had such poor experiences.
I've done domestic (and pre-cleared international) connections there and never had a problem. But I will avoid it if there are any choices for international to domestic.
Greg
The facilities aren't bad. I know that airports aren't happy places any more, it seems that everyone at MIA is extra ticked off all the time. Out of the Florida airports; FLL, MCO and TPA just seem more enjoyable.JAL007 wrote:I have been flying AA from/through MIA on a regular basis for 20+ years and never had a problem. The facilities are first rate, AA and Dade County have invested over $1 billion in the North Terminal project. AA's route network and MIA hub is the envy of the industry and an incredibly profitable and well run operation. Sorry you guys have had such poor experiences.
KMOX - Exclusive: Southwest Airlines Hopes to Grow in St. Louis
Boeing’s new, more fuel efficient “MAX” edition of the 737 aircraft, when delivered, will allow Southwest to fly further and farther. Routes to Mexico, the Caribbean, Central America and the northern tier of countries in South America is already on the airline’s drawing board.
http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2013/09/27/ ... -st-louis/Federal restrictions on the distance of non-stop flights out of Dallas’ Love Field, a provision known as the “Wright Amendment,” have benefited St. Louis as one of the allowed direct destinations. The amendment expires in 2014, but Ricks doesn’t anticipate Lambert losing any flights as a result.
The mixture of offerings — destinations, for example — may change, but no service will be reduced, he said.
Great News!
I always say, STLians should be flying SWA all the time - they swooped in after AA cuts and replaced so many destinations with nonstop service!
They are really a knight in shinning armor to STL.
I always say, STLians should be flying SWA all the time - they swooped in after AA cuts and replaced so many destinations with nonstop service!
They are really a knight in shinning armor to STL.
Love this comment.
I'm glad SWA has invested in St. Louis and is considering investing more. Even if they don't put international/Latin/Caribbean flights in St. Louis, St. Louis should keep pursing other airlines for international flights - including SWA - until it happens.
St. Louis should be saying if Austin can do it, why not us. Austin, although a nice region and growing in popularity, is not in St. Louis' league yet when it comes to business. St. Louis apparently needs to be doing more than what Austin is doing. There are times you must compete harder than the next guy. Tricks have to be pulled out of the sleeves. How willing is St. Louis to pull some tricks?
I've always said that St. Louis' hyper-focus on the past keeps it stagnated. What's done is done. Although there are signs of forward-thinking happening, I've also said that St. Louis needs to pick up the pieces and move on. I've said too, build on what you have. The dismantling of TWA/AA in St. Louis happened 11-years ago.“What we’re hearing generally from the business community, I think, quite frankly, is that some people are more focused on the past in terms of what may have been lost and don’t really have the awareness of how much has happened since, for example, the TWA and American hubs went away,” said Executive Vice President Ron Ricks in an exclusive interview Thursday with KMOX’s Michael Calhoun.
“The bottom line is that St. Louis, compared to many other comparable markets in the United States of America, enjoys a very very good level of air service,” he said, adding, “it may not be perfect. It maybe could be improved. But you’re starting with a very solid foundation.”
I'm glad SWA has invested in St. Louis and is considering investing more. Even if they don't put international/Latin/Caribbean flights in St. Louis, St. Louis should keep pursing other airlines for international flights - including SWA - until it happens.
I'm not an airline industry geek (no disrespect), but it seems to me if the St. Louis business community wants more international routes, it has to help subsidize those routes as Hamm-Niebruegge suggests. On the other hand, I also believe St. Louis Lambert should be going over and beyond what Austin has done to lure an international flight to London.Lambert’s Hamm-Niebruegge said, of landing a flight to Europe: ”I do think we’re closer and certainly there are foreign carriers looking at it and saying this is a potential spot.”
Hamm-Niebruegge noted that about 260 people a day fly to somewhere in Europe out of STL. She believes that Lambert’s routinely offered incentives are similar to those employed by Austin to land a British Airways flight to London, although a financial guarantee from the St. Louis business community would also likely be necessary to seal a deal.
St. Louis should be saying if Austin can do it, why not us. Austin, although a nice region and growing in popularity, is not in St. Louis' league yet when it comes to business. St. Louis apparently needs to be doing more than what Austin is doing. There are times you must compete harder than the next guy. Tricks have to be pulled out of the sleeves. How willing is St. Louis to pull some tricks?
This in a nutshell is why STL area does not have transatlantic service to LON or another European hub. Until the business community is willing to put their money where their mouth is nothing is going to change. Notwithstanding your desire to have nonstop service, understand that from an airline network planning stand point what real value does STL provide? As it is the market is well served from nearby hubs with convenient connections. That widebody aircraft and slot pair could be better used for a marginal flight to JFK or MIA or another market that would generate considerably more revenue than a flight to STL. One of the biggest things hampering STL is that it is beyond the economical range to operate a 757 transatlantic-were the airport within such range no doubt the route would be served at least on a seasonal basis like DLs flight to PIT.arch city wrote: if the St. Louis business community wants more international routes, it has to help subsidize those routes as Hamm-Niebruegge suggests. On the other hand, I also believe St. Louis Lambert should be going over and beyond what Austin has done to lure an international flight to London.
^Sounds as if this could be a failure to communicate and educate by civic and political leadership.
The Regional Chamber and Lambert St. Louis should be, if not already done, reaching out to the big and medium-sized businesses of St. Louis. Those businesses should be educated about what is happening in other regions and how those regions are making international flights happen.
Where's Civic Progress, Leadership Council Southwestern Illinois, World Trade Center-St. Louis and other similar pro-growth organizations?
Have they been talked to by Lambert and Regional Chamber officials?
The Regional Chamber and Lambert St. Louis should be, if not already done, reaching out to the big and medium-sized businesses of St. Louis. Those businesses should be educated about what is happening in other regions and how those regions are making international flights happen.
Where's Civic Progress, Leadership Council Southwestern Illinois, World Trade Center-St. Louis and other similar pro-growth organizations?
Have they been talked to by Lambert and Regional Chamber officials?
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You can downplay it all you like but I believed I knew what was coming from this meeting. specifically. That's why I posted the teaser. Thank you for keeping everyone in check.JAL007 wrote:Meetings between officials from airports/cities/air carriers are routine occurrences, just like in other industries. Many meetings take place and no new service materializes, it is about maintaining relationships for future opportunities. Officials at MIA have been meeting with Emirates for many years and nothing has materialized. Similarly they have also been meeting with El Al regularly since service was suspended in 2008. STL officials have met with BA and other carriers in the past. It's just a normal course of business.
In the meantime, Southwest is investing $156-million in Houston.
Houston is about to have two international airports. Hobby Airport, the original airport that became a reliever facility, is about to add an international terminal.
Groundbreaking was today.
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Houston is about to have two international airports. Hobby Airport, the original airport that became a reliever facility, is about to add an international terminal.
Groundbreaking was today.
I agree. Well.......I believe the meeting was more than a check-in (ha ha). To me, it sounds as if there's some real potential for St. Louis based on news reports. There's nothing wrong with optimism as long as it has traces of realism.moorlander wrote:You can downplay it all you like but I believed I knew what was coming from this meeting. specifically. That's why I posted the teaser. Thank you for keeping everyone in check.
As I see it, Southwest could come in and not have to build like they are building in Houston. The City of St. Louis could easily co-fund the remodel of Concourse D with Southwest.
arch city wrote:I agree. Well.......I believe the meeting was more than a check-in (ha ha). To me, it sounds as if there's some real potential for St. Louis based on news reports. There's nothing wrong with optimism as long as it has traces of realism.moorlander wrote:You can downplay it all you like but I believed I knew what was coming from this meeting. specifically. That's why I posted the teaser. Thank you for keeping everyone in check.
As I see it, Southwest could come in and not have to build like they are building in Houston. The City of St. Louis could easily co-fund the remodel of Concourse D with Southwest.
I'm not seeing much positive in the article. What I got from the article was that SWA will not be doing flights across the Atlantic, probably won't cut flights to STL due to the expiration of the Wright Amendment, and that they plan flights to South America but STL is not a priority. Oh and he also said that if people drop other airlines, they could add more flights.
While I would like for us to get flights directly to South America, I hope we get something to Europe first.
I did not downplay anything, I simply stated that airlines and local officials often hold meetings and plan trade missions as a normal course of business, much like you or I would do in a professional networking capacity. The media is notorious for blowing dealings like this one out of proportion and tend to mislead those unfamiliar with how [airline route] network planning and the airline industry actually works. Case in point, the fact that KSDK is referring to St. Louis as a possible "hub" for Southwest considering WN doesn't operate a hub-spoke model. Before Boston landed JAL last spring Massport and local task force had been meeting for over a decade, this type of thing takes time.moorlander wrote: You can downplay it all you like but I believed I knew what was coming from this meeting. specifically. That's why I posted the teaser. Thank you for keeping everyone in check.