urbanSTL

JAL007 wrote:

dweebe wrote:
Seriously American: f*%k you. That's just going to drive ticket prices up even more.

Haters gonna hate.

Do you work for American? Hehe. REMEMBER PEOPLE: Delta flies to JFK 2X and LGA3x daily. Southwest flies to Los Angeles 4x Daily.

KerrytheKonstructor wrote:Not trying to hijack this thread, but I have an inquiry for some of you "airport heads." The other day (If I remember correctly it would have been either the 3rd, 4th, or 5th), I was up in Florissant near Waterford and Derhake and lo and behold, here comes a "heavy" or at least a "large" whining overhead on final for (from what I can tell from Google maps is) runway 24. The weather was delightful, so my questions are this: How often does this happen and why? I don't think I'd ever seen it here, but my knowledge is rather limited. I have played a bit of subLogic/MS flight sim though and when I casually mentioned to the resident at whose home I happened to be at as the jetliner passed above, "ah so you must be directly in the flightpath," the resident looked up seemingly puzzled and offered no comment. It was only after I had left that I realized I had seen something new for me. I've noticed 11-29 used on occassion, but never 24. I figured it was just for weird wind days or emergencies, but maybe they use it occasionally when traffic justifies it? Anyways, just curious. Thanks for any replies and please continue with the scheduling conversation, which I rather enjoy.

Oh yes I know of the aircraft you are talking about! It was a KC-135, from Tinker Air Force Base in Oklahoma City. I was performing touch and gos on all of Lambert's runways, including 24. It actually resulted in thousands of 911 calls from concerned residents.

dweebe wrote:

Chalupas54 wrote:

JAL007 wrote:
Haters gonna hate.

Southwest flies to Los Angeles 4x Daily.

Can't fly Southwest due to work travel policies.

+1. And I don't like planning a multi-carrier connection.

gregl wrote:There is no firm evidence that LAX is going to a regional jet. The changes to ORD / LGA / DCA have been loaded into the schedules and LAX shows it is remaining on MD-80s. It is possible they are going to load it this upcoming weekend... but I suspect it was just an error on the AA website.

Another weekly schedule load took place this weekend - I can still find no evidence that STL-LAX is going regional jet. It does go down to 2x daily for the winter, but is scheduled back to 3x daily by March.

Chalupas54 wrote:Delta flies to JFK 2X and LGA3x daily. Southwest flies to Los Angeles 4x Daily. [...] Actually, with this move by American, we could see Delta(Very Large LA Presence) add a route to LA. I don't know the probability, but it could happen."

DL flies STL-JFK 1x daily. WN flies STL-LAX 2x daily.

As for DL flying STL-LAX -- very unlikely. DL is a distant #3 in Los Angeles right now - UA is #1 with 18%, AA #2 with 16%, DL #3 with 12%. While AA & UA both have significant connection opportunities @ LA, DL does not have nearly as many.

Additionally, DL has been quietly eliminating flights from STL over the past 12-18 months - flights to Washington DC, Raleigh/Durham and Memphis have been eliminated with no new flying being added.

Greg

gregl wrote: flights to Washington DC, Raleigh/Durham and Memphis have been eliminated with no new flying being added.

Greg

I think Delta said when they planned those routes that they were temporary (RDU, DC) until other carriers picked them up. As for Memphis, that is due to their hub closing, not really because of St Louis. But then again, Delta's cuts are INSIGNIFICANT compared to American 'raping' the TWA mega hub. American really has a emotional debt to St Louis, which it will never re-pay. It's elimination of the hub did severe damage to our economy. I do think Lambert is really coming back, but we need other airlines besides Southwest to step up to the plate.

Chalupas54 wrote:I think Delta said when they planned those routes that they were temporary (RDU, DC) until other carriers picked them up.

I have never seen an airline say they are starting a "temporary" route -- other than seasonal service, which these routes were not. No other airline has started flying to either RDU or DCA since Delta quit those routes. (DL has attempted to build a focus city at RDU several times in the past and has pulled back each time they have done so.)

But then again, Delta's cuts are INSIGNIFICANT compared to American 'raping' the TWA mega hub. American really has a emotional debt to St Louis, which it will never re-pay. It's elimination of the hub did severe damage to our economy. I do think Lambert is really coming back, but we need other airlines besides Southwest to step up to the plate.

As much as I loved the high amount of service out of STL on TWA / AA until 2005-ish, STL could never support 500+ flights a day on a single airline with any profitability. There is simply not the amount of origination / destination (i.e. not connecting at STL) traffic to support a hub of that size.

STL airline service is now about the right size for it's market size. We have over 200 flights a day today and non-stop service to 27 of the 30 busiest airports in the US (only airports we don't have service to are Honolulu, San Diego and Portland) and 33 of the 40 busiest.

Greg

gregl wrote:

Chalupas54 wrote:I think Delta said when they planned those routes that they were temporary (RDU, DC) until other carriers picked them up.

I have never seen an airline say they are starting a "temporary" route -- other than seasonal service, which these routes were not. No other airline has started flying to either RDU or DCA since Delta quit those routes. (DL has attempted to build a focus city at RDU several times in the past and has pulled back each time they have done so.)

But then again, Delta's cuts are INSIGNIFICANT compared to American 'raping' the TWA mega hub. American really has a emotional debt to St Louis, which it will never re-pay. It's elimination of the hub did severe damage to our economy. I do think Lambert is really coming back, but we need other airlines besides Southwest to step up to the plate.

As much as I loved the high amount of service out of STL on TWA / AA until 2005-ish, STL could never support 500+ flights a day on a single airline with any profitability. There is simply not the amount of origination / destination (i.e. not connecting at STL) traffic to support a hub of that size.

STL airline service is now about the right size for it's market size. We have over 200 flights a day today and non-stop service to 27 of the 30 busiest airports in the US (only airports we don't have service to are Honolulu, San Diego and Portland) and 33 of the 40 busiest.

Greg

Doesn't Southwest have service from STL to both San Diego and Raleigh?

Also, on another note British Airlines just announced nonstop service between Austin and London. Austin had just under 10 million passengers in 2012. The flight will be on the new Boeing 787 and will launch in March 2014 with 5 weekly flights and in May they will become daily.

chesterfieldkid03 wrote:Doesn't Southwest have service from STL to both San Diego and Raleigh?

Southwest has two daily non-stops to RDU.

They don't currently have non-stop service to SAN, but they may have had one seasonally before. They do offer 10+ daily connections / direct flights to SAN.

chesterfieldkid03 wrote:

gregl wrote:

Chalupas54 wrote:I think Delta said when they planned those routes that they were temporary (RDU, DC) until other carriers picked them up.

I have never seen an airline say they are starting a "temporary" route -- other than seasonal service, which these routes were not. No other airline has started flying to either RDU or DCA since Delta quit those routes. (DL has attempted to build a focus city at RDU several times in the past and has pulled back each time they have done so.)

But then again, Delta's cuts are INSIGNIFICANT compared to American 'raping' the TWA mega hub. American really has a emotional debt to St Louis, which it will never re-pay. It's elimination of the hub did severe damage to our economy. I do think Lambert is really coming back, but we need other airlines besides Southwest to step up to the plate.

As much as I loved the high amount of service out of STL on TWA / AA until 2005-ish, STL could never support 500+ flights a day on a single airline with any profitability. There is simply not the amount of origination / destination (i.e. not connecting at STL) traffic to support a hub of that size.

STL airline service is now about the right size for it's market size. We have over 200 flights a day today and non-stop service to 27 of the 30 busiest airports in the US (only airports we don't have service to are Honolulu, San Diego and Portland) and 33 of the 40 busiest.

Greg

Doesn't Southwest have service from STL to both San Diego and Raleigh?

Also, on another note British Airlines just announced nonstop service between Austin and London. Austin had just under 10 million passengers in 2012. The flight will be on the new Boeing 787 and will launch in March 2014 with 5 weekly flights and in May they will become daily.

AUSTIN...?!? I give the route 10 months. Austin has no touristic features, no major companies HQd there, and not a Top 30 metro. Besides being TX Capitol, I don't see ANY reason why BA would pick Austin..

Come on... Austin is one of the fasting-growing metro areas in the US, is the capital of the nation's fastest-growing state, is home to one of the country's finest public research universities, and has a (well-deserved) reputation for its progressive progressive politics and famous quirky arts and music scene. No tourist features? We're talking about the city that hosts one of largest music festivals in the world. And let's not forget to mention that Austin is quickly becoming a tech hub that most cities outside of Silicon Valley can only dream of. BA is just thinking smart, if you ask me...

Chalupas54 wrote:
AUSTIN...?!? I give the route 10 months. Austin has no touristic features, no major companies HQd there, and not a Top 30 metro. Besides being TX Capitol, I don't see ANY reason why BA would pick Austin..

And it is a very good thing you don't work in route planning for an airline. Airlines begin routes that they believe will become profitable. Long-haul routes such as this one generally take time to become profitable and represent considerable investments in facilities, aircraft, and slots. Unlike St. Louis, Austin has a growing and vibrant tech community and many start-ups. The route is being operated under a JBV with American Airlines, allowing BA to leverage AA's strong customer base in the Austin area.

The round trip between Austin in London is going to run nearly $1,700, while the flight between Dallas and London on American Airlines is only $900. British Air charges high fuel surcharges which really runs up the cost of a ticket. It will be interesting to see if the Austin community supports this flight or if they continue to connect in Dallas to get to London for nearly half the price.

The aircraft will not be based in DFW, BA doesn't have any aircraft based out of DFW only operates 1x daily 744 for their LHR turn. The inbound aircraft will operate from LHR, BA is operating the flight, not AA although AA personnel may provide ground handling (passenger service, ramp service, etc) and use of the Austin Admirals Club for eligible passengers.

Westminster wrote:Come on... Austin is one of the fasting-growing metro areas in the US, is the capital of the nation's fastest-growing state, is home to one of the country's finest public research universities, and has a (well-deserved) reputation for its progressive progressive politics and famous quirky arts and music scene. No tourist features? We're talking about the city that hosts one of largest music festivals in the world. And let's not forget to mention that Austin is quickly becoming a tech hub that most cities outside of Silicon Valley can only dream of. BA is just thinking smart, if you ask me...

Been to Austin several times, almost moved there. Progressive...? Um no. While on a tour of Austin by a Realtor, there were 15 Ron Paul billboards on 35. Quirky? Just as quirky as Indianapolis. A city that is TRULY quirky would be Portland, OR. Austin City Limits is big, but Nashville's festivals are much nicer. Personally, I am biased against Texas (Except Houston). I really can't stand how Texans feel superior to everyone else. I am just really aggravated by this. An inferior city like Austin..wow.