St. Louis in the National Media

arch city · PostOct 12, 2014#5512014-10-12T00:35+00:00

threeonefour wrote:
imperialmog wrote:Also, there is the possibility that the region depending on how people react might end up doubling down on white flight and suburban sprawl as a result, if not people leaving the region entirely.
That was a point I made earlier. I believe, and I hope I am wrong, that the recent unrest could trigger another wave of flight. As I said before, I think it will be regardless of race or location. People with means will move to wherever they feel safe.

That could mean very different things to different people. Quite honestly, if I wasn't married with children, which obviously makes it difficult for me to move, I'd think more seriously about relocation. I love it here, but it's also a great place to visit.

If they move, they will be followed.

Might as well do the hard work and work towards equality, fairness and justice.

Otherwise, you will be moving to community that is bound to become a Ferguson-like community.

gary kreie · PostOct 12, 2014#5522014-10-12T03:23+00:00

There was a demonstration on Sunday, the day after the MB shooting, but there was no national media. They only came after they saw footage of the burning Quiktrip. This started as citizens angry at Ferguson police overreaction. But national media wants it to be St Louis whites vs blacks.

threeonefour · PostOct 13, 2014#5532014-10-13T20:38+00:00

arch city wrote: If they move, they will be followed. Might as well do the hard work and work towards equality, fairness and justice. Otherwise, you will be moving to community that is bound to become a Ferguson-like community.

I agree. There is a risk of the cycle of flight (white, black, whomever) repeating itself once again, just as we have seen in Greater St. Louis and similar metro areas for over five decades.

I hope I am wrong and little if any additional flight occurs. However, I will not be surprised if it does. I hope people will stay in their communities and fight to make them better, more inclusive places. That said, where one lives is a personal choice, typically based on a variety of factors. In a perfect world, people would look at the longview and realize as this cycle perpetuates, the overall health of the region in which they live doesn't necessarily improve. In fact, communities are likely to become more segregated and poverty more concentrated, and that doesn't bode well for the future of our region. For Chesterfield, St. Charles, Edwardsville, Arnold, and the two O'Fallons to prosper, there needs to be a healthy core as well as a healthy ring of inner suburbs. There is a LOT of work to do to make that happen.

MatthewHall · PostOct 13, 2014#5542014-10-13T22:15+00:00

White flight is not the problem in Shaw. White's moving in have made blacks there fell very defensive. That's why the protests have happened in shaw.

onecity · PostOct 13, 2014#5552014-10-13T22:20+00:00

A question:

If the region is 15% black, and a neighborhood is more black than that, is there actually anything to be concerned about as long as the % of black residents stays at or above that level? I understand if people are complaining that some nabes are going from 80% black to 2% black or something, but if it's like 60% black to 30% black, what's there really to talk about, besides regional normalization at work? Especially if the remaining blacks have a good mix of incomes.

roger wyoming II · PostOct 13, 2014#5562014-10-13T23:21+00:00

^^ The protests have happened in Shaw because another black teen was killed by the police and a protest movement protesting black teens being killed by police had been launched in the STL... and the timing just ahead of the weekend's already planned events of course was a huge factor in their scope.

I do agree that the whiplash racial change in the neighborhood- majority white to majority black to majority white over the course of the 1990 - 2000 -2010 census numbers is pretty interesting and bound to have an impact on relations. (Although the rapid influx and exodus of blacks has been the main change in raw numbers rather than whites leaving/moving into the neighborhood.)

RedOctober · PostOct 14, 2014#5572014-10-14T13:38+00:00

It gets me a bit down but i say let them protest. As long as the hardcore criminals aren't coming out of the cages then everything should be fine. Reasoning i say cause hard core criminals aren't going to come out and protest cause they know they have a record and that the police are after them but the protesting at night has got to stop cause the hard core crime is happening at a much higher pace cause they know the police will be occupied with the protesters.

imperialmog · PostOct 14, 2014#5582014-10-14T13:45+00:00

roger wyoming II wrote:^^ The protests have happened in Shaw because another black teen was killed by the police and a protest movement protesting black teens being killed by police had been launched in the STL... and the timing just ahead of the weekend's already planned events of course was a huge factor in their scope.

I do agree that the whiplash racial change in the neighborhood- majority white to majority black to majority white over the course of the 1990 - 2000 -2010 census numbers is pretty interesting and bound to have an impact on relations. (Although the rapid influx and exodus of blacks has been the main change in raw numbers rather than whites leaving/moving into the neighborhood.)

I was thinking it was more a perfect storm had to occur to there being protests revolving what happened in Shaw. Since any other time it would not have created it due to circumstances. Its just since the actions of one police department has poisoned the well where it makes it hard for many to believe the words of another police department in the area.

chaifetz10 · PostOct 14, 2014#5592014-10-14T15:10+00:00

Anyone who tries to compare the two cases has altered intentions. In one, there is a feeling of opaqueness and secrecy surrounding the facts. In the other, it seems pretty cut and dry at what occurred. The only similarity is an individual was shot and killed by a police officer. One it appears is 100% justified and the other that is still being decided by a Grand Jury.

In my opinion, anyone protesting in Shaw should be protesting civilian on civilian violence instead. There was not a peep from protesters on the recent shootings downtown.

roger wyoming II · PostOct 14, 2014#5602014-10-14T15:42+00:00

^ I agree that the cases are vastly different but disagree on the altered intentions statement as there is a complete breakdown of trust that desperately needs repair and raw emotions are so high. Unfortunately unlike with the Powell case (which easily could have exploited the Ferguson tension) there were no supportive eyewitnesses and/or video to support the general police account; actually the opposite was in play here. (Although it wouldn't have helped in this instance as the cop was private duty, I do wish the police officers' union would work with the city to get dash and body cams as soon as possible.)

imperialmog · PostOct 14, 2014#5612014-10-14T17:18+00:00

^^ wasn't also one of the issues as well in the case in Shaw was weather the initial contact was proper and not a case of racial profiling?

As for the trust thing, how do you build or rebuild it along with deescalate the situation? Since the risk is the longer it goes parties could engage in long-term destructive tactics that is counterproductive.

roger wyoming II · PostOct 14, 2014#5622014-10-14T18:38+00:00

imperialmog wrote:^^ wasn't also one of the issues as well in the case in Shaw was weather the initial contact was proper and not a case of racial profiling?

Racial profiling definitely is one of the important issues connected to the larger movement... to be honest I had never heard of the "pedestrian stop" practice before the Myers case.

imperialmog wrote:^^ As for the trust thing, how do you build or rebuild it along with deescalate the situation? Since the risk is the longer it goes parties could engage in long-term destructive tactics that is counterproductive.

$64 million question and we don't have much time either before the Wilson grand jury decision.

Chalupas54 · PostOct 14, 2014#5632014-10-14T23:31+00:00

Are there any plans in place in the event of Darren Wison *shudder* NOT being charged? God only knows the violence that will occur.

Ebsy · PostOct 14, 2014#5642014-10-14T23:42+00:00

There better be some damn good plans, because he isn't going to be charged.

wustl_eng · PostOct 15, 2014#5652014-10-15T10:43+00:00

Multiple law enforcement agencies have been meeting something like two times a week (might be off on that) planning for it... so you think they'd have a plan, but I'm not really assured.

imperialmog · PostOct 15, 2014#5662014-10-15T11:57+00:00

Just me or is the reaction to it all and the next six months could very well shape how growth and development for the region as a whole occurs for at least a generation?

TheNewSaintLouis · PostOct 15, 2014#5672014-10-15T12:51+00:00

Well destroying business's and property isn't going to bring Michael Brown back whatever the charges on Darren Wilson will be if any for that extent. Its all about bracing yourself for a potential Armageddon among people which in itself is scary. I honestly hope Darren Wilson is charged cause all of this has me worried that St.Louis will be gone down the drain.. Hope that i can eat my words I'm just wanting peace in all of this.

chaifetz10 · PostOct 15, 2014#5682014-10-15T13:43+00:00

I don't see him being charged for a homicide or anything of that nature, as the charges would have to be proved beyond a reasonable doubt and it appears that the witness accounts do not jive with each other/have changed over time. However I think he loses a civil suit by the family.

roger wyoming II · PostOct 15, 2014#5692014-10-15T14:48+00:00

^ I think the public witness accounts on the whole are quite consistent actually. There is some variation on the precise details that can be accounted for from the varying angles and memory recall of highly charged events. and some accounts may be judged more credible than others, but the narrative from at least a half dozen witnesses most of whom were unknown to each other is that MB was fleeing as DW began shooting at him and that at some point MB stopped, turned around and was killed from a distance while he was injured and during an act of submission with his hands in the air.

There may be other witness accounts that are not public that substantially contradict that essential storyline (and I put my money on whatever the "live tweeting rapper" says) but so far the public accounts are pretty damning. But one thing everyone agrees on is that DW won't be charged with homicide.

sirshankalot · PostOct 15, 2014#5702014-10-15T14:54+00:00

Does anybody know anything about a video on YouTube regarding the Home Depot in Ferguson and a hot dog vendor getting beat with a hammer? I've been hearing uncomfortable rumblings....

chaifetz10 · PostOct 15, 2014#5712014-10-15T15:15+00:00

Story from the STL Post Dispatch: Link

roger wyoming II · PostOct 15, 2014#5722014-10-15T15:20+00:00

^^ Well that's a helluva hanging ellipsis! I remember the incident at the time but can't remember if the guys were caught.

sirshankalot · PostOct 15, 2014#5732014-10-15T15:26+00:00

you know who those guys are?

roger wyoming II · PostOct 15, 2014#5742014-10-15T15:31+00:00

^ I know who they are.... do you?

sirshankalot · PostOct 15, 2014#5752014-10-15T15:32+00:00

I don't, but I've been told I should....

St. Louis in the National Media

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