^ well look it up then.... there is such a thing as search bars. what's with all your mystery anyway? who is telling you? what are they hinting at?
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^ four criminals.... maybe they are protestors or something. my guess is there is some kind of rumor it was MB or something.
edit: the only thing I could find is a very vague reference that one of the four may have been a witness in the MB incident. Here are the four for anyone who just has to know for those being told they should know for some mysterious reasons.... http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metr ... 3f668.html
edit: the only thing I could find is a very vague reference that one of the four may have been a witness in the MB incident. Here are the four for anyone who just has to know for those being told they should know for some mysterious reasons.... http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metr ... 3f668.html
sirshankalot wrote:Does anybody know anything about a video on YouTube regarding the Home Depot in Ferguson and a hot dog vendor getting beat with a hammer? I've been hearing uncomfortable rumblings....
Back in August when this first went down there were rumors flying around that Mike Brown was involved in the assault of the hot dog vendor described in the P-D link because it happened in Ferguson and one of the guys in the pictures in that article looked like him. That was pretty quickly debunked; All four suspects in that case have been arrested and none have any known links to Brown.chaifetz10 wrote:Story from the STL Post Dispatch: Link
If there are any other developments recently I'm not aware of them.
-RBB
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Does anyone have an idea or feeling as to will recent events change the local political structure? Mainly in terms of power structure and worldview of local officials? Could a broader political movement appear that changes the region?
I was thinking that is possible the political structure gets discredited and its all the trigger to sweeping it aside and have a new set of people in power. Its very likely that those not from here or have been in other places will have more say which could create more open and imaginative ideas instead of the same old parochial politics that occurs.
I was thinking that is possible the political structure gets discredited and its all the trigger to sweeping it aside and have a new set of people in power. Its very likely that those not from here or have been in other places will have more say which could create more open and imaginative ideas instead of the same old parochial politics that occurs.
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^ Really hard to say how this will turn out, but I believe there will be at least some degree of muni reform in NoCo and possibly some decent consolidation/cooperation efforts. But the wild card could be how far this split will go within the Democrats with the traditional McCulloch power base and black politicians. We'll have to see what emerges from all that. Also, I wouldn't be surprised by general public frustration leading to growing challenges to incumbents like Slay & Clay. Hopefully there will be enough political disruption to lead to a more effective, less parochial governance. I do know leaders are scared as s$%t right now.
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^^ I was thinking you might see a new generation start gaining power locally that wouldn't have happened as fast otherwise. One that is more willing and open to shake up the status quo.
Wouldn't consolidation in North County likely be a result of reforms that eliminate the revenue streams of muni courts and traffic fines? Since it could force municipalities to merge or disincorporate due to budgetary concerns?
The wild card I see is coming from Jefferson City and what they may do. They could either do things that are constructive, or further fuel the fires creating more problems. It just depends on what their agenda is. Also, this could play into the Governor's race in 2016. (Nixon must be thankful he is term-limited since he could have issues in a primary) There also is from what I have heard from friends and social media, is that this event along with state legislature doing what its doing in recent years triggering a rise in liberal activism and movements in the St. Louis area, what would result from that>
Wouldn't consolidation in North County likely be a result of reforms that eliminate the revenue streams of muni courts and traffic fines? Since it could force municipalities to merge or disincorporate due to budgetary concerns?
The wild card I see is coming from Jefferson City and what they may do. They could either do things that are constructive, or further fuel the fires creating more problems. It just depends on what their agenda is. Also, this could play into the Governor's race in 2016. (Nixon must be thankful he is term-limited since he could have issues in a primary) There also is from what I have heard from friends and social media, is that this event along with state legislature doing what its doing in recent years triggering a rise in liberal activism and movements in the St. Louis area, what would result from that>
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^ The Jeff City angle is surely one to watch and I think tied into the fissure within the democrats.... we'll have to see if the GOP in JC can put together a meaningful urban agenda that can attract at least a modest amount of support from Dems unhappy with the status quo. Kinder to some extent already has taken advantage of Nixon's traditional strained relationship with the black community and if he were somehow able to work with a moderated Stream, softening a presently troglodyte GOP caucus in JC just may be possible.
The chance of the Republicans in the State Legislature moving back to the center is at about 1%. Unless, of course, something similar to Kansas starts to take shape, and I don't think any of us want to be in that situation.
Radley Balko and the Washington Post once again put us on "blast".
Why we need to fix St. Louis County
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the- ... -st-louis/
Why we need to fix St. Louis County
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the- ... -st-louis/
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I see it as a low chance of it happening and more likely they may throw fuel to the fire with "voter ID" related legislation. Isn't it at this point. But its also possible a few of the issues there could be common cause, like the excessive reliance on traffic fines and court fees some municipalities do which could get at least some Republicans to support changes. In part since there are similar places outside of North County that do the same things. (Foristell for example is a big one)Ebsy wrote:The chance of the Republicans in the State Legislature moving back to the center is at about 1%. Unless, of course, something similar to Kansas starts to take shape, and I don't think any of us want to be in that situation.
I love how the Washington Post and NY Times comes in town and does far better investigative journalism on the Post-Dispatch's own turf. The P-D has their Ferguson section and clearly seems to be aiming for a Pulitzer Prize, but I don't see that happening at all.
The people/reporters at the NYTs and WaPo have no connection or loyalties to local powers-that-be.jcity wrote:I love how the Washington Post and NY Times comes in town and does far better investigative journalism on the Post-Dispatch's own turf. The P-D has their Ferguson section and clearly seems to be aiming for a Pulitzer Prize, but I don't see that happening at all.
The people/reporters at the NYTs and WaPo aren't the neighbors of local power players.
The WaPo deserves a Pulitzer Prize for its coverage of Ferguson/St. Louis.
I always knew there were problems in St. Louis (even had it as my forum signature once), but I had no clue the underbelly was as funky as it is.
The WaPo has enlightened me.
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Where Young College Graduates Are Choosing to Live - NY Times
St Louis ranks above the national average.
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/10/20/up ... &referrer=
St Louis ranks above the national average.
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/10/20/up ... &referrer=
That's a very positive story about STL. I hope the local press picks that up. Of course there are the usual suspects there, but I feel like STL is just right below the surface. So many positive things happening here, we shouldn't lose sight of them. Sometimes I honestly wonder if we'd be better off without the Post-Dispatch...
Not national media, but did anyone read Race in St. Louis: The Color Line in St. Louis Magazine:
http://www.stlmag.com/news/the-color-li ... st.-louis/
Overall, I think it's a great article and offers introspection into some deep-rooted issues that the region struggles with, but I do take issue with a couple things:
"Why was segregation more dramatic here than it was in similar Midwestern cities?"
It's not.
Milwaukee, Detroit, Cleveland and Chicago are all statistically more segregated than St. Louis: http://atlantablackstar.com/.../10-of-the-most.../10/
I think it's disingenuous counter-productive to assert such claims to suit a narrative, especially since they are factually incorrect.
"St. Louis might be Midwestern, but its history is Southern."
True to an extent, but to declare that is to ignore the undeniable Northern characteristics that the city has exhibited since its earliest days. And let's not forget that St. Louis remained a Union stronghold throughout the Civil War. It is as much Northern as it is Southern historically. The article would be no less compelling had these points been at least acknowledged.
Any defense of St. Louis in regards to race compared to other cities seems to be dismissed as minimizing or denying there's a problem, which I am not, but I do think blatant embellishment for the sole purpose of sensationalism is ridiculous and unfair, and only perpetuates the problem.
http://www.stlmag.com/news/the-color-li ... st.-louis/
Overall, I think it's a great article and offers introspection into some deep-rooted issues that the region struggles with, but I do take issue with a couple things:
"Why was segregation more dramatic here than it was in similar Midwestern cities?"
It's not.
Milwaukee, Detroit, Cleveland and Chicago are all statistically more segregated than St. Louis: http://atlantablackstar.com/.../10-of-the-most.../10/
I think it's disingenuous counter-productive to assert such claims to suit a narrative, especially since they are factually incorrect.
"St. Louis might be Midwestern, but its history is Southern."
True to an extent, but to declare that is to ignore the undeniable Northern characteristics that the city has exhibited since its earliest days. And let's not forget that St. Louis remained a Union stronghold throughout the Civil War. It is as much Northern as it is Southern historically. The article would be no less compelling had these points been at least acknowledged.
Any defense of St. Louis in regards to race compared to other cities seems to be dismissed as minimizing or denying there's a problem, which I am not, but I do think blatant embellishment for the sole purpose of sensationalism is ridiculous and unfair, and only perpetuates the problem.
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Minneapolis doesn't have a particularly large african american community like most midwest cities do. I'm not sure if thats a good thing or bad thing either way i love being around all people so i really don't care what your race or background may be as long as you are a good hearted person and treat others with respect and dignity.
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I think what the magaizine was trying to say is that the racial history of St. Louis is different from other Midwestern cities due to different circumstances here that didn't exist elsewhere. I keep thinking the best city to compare it to would be Baltimore due to being the only other large city that has this mixed history. I think the racial issues in the area in a way haven't been addressed in part due to that how it has been addressed in other areas wouldn't work here due to a different situation.
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^ D.C. & Baltimore.
I strongly agree with the assertion that our geography made things more complex and in many ways much more ugly than in northern cities... its a place of the Veiled Prophet, spine-chilling Confederate Memorials, and a massive white riot when blacks simply were allowed to use the Fairgrounds Park pool. That blend of northern housing patterns and southern legal segregation made for an extremely toxic environment; one that we have a hard time overcoming.
I strongly agree with the assertion that our geography made things more complex and in many ways much more ugly than in northern cities... its a place of the Veiled Prophet, spine-chilling Confederate Memorials, and a massive white riot when blacks simply were allowed to use the Fairgrounds Park pool. That blend of northern housing patterns and southern legal segregation made for an extremely toxic environment; one that we have a hard time overcoming.
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Exactly, you have to compare with other Border Cities when it comes to this. It looked similar to northern cities but the situation unlike there in terms of discrimination and segregation tended to be more de jure instead of de facto (which I noticed many seem to deny) Its harder to untie the thread when both systems applied since you have to deal with both structures.
Now I wonder, are things much better in D.C. and Baltimore than here? And if so, what lessons could be learned? Or would they be hard to use as examples due to D.C. and to some extent Baltimore due to closeness as well is too different due to the effects of being the national capital and how it distorts things.
Now I wonder, are things much better in D.C. and Baltimore than here? And if so, what lessons could be learned? Or would they be hard to use as examples due to D.C. and to some extent Baltimore due to closeness as well is too different due to the effects of being the national capital and how it distorts things.
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^I always like to think of St. Louis as the city where north meets south and east meets west. Chicago is clearly a North and Eastern city, Memphis a Southern City, and Kansas City a Western City. What STL lacks in racial diversity it makes up in Americana cultural diversity. I think this collision of culture makes 'what St. Louis is' really hard to pin down and has hurt it from the regional unity and national identity standpoint. To me it also makes it a fascinating microcosm.
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I'd add Cincinnati into that category with Baltimore and St. Louis. They are the three major cities closest to the Mason-Dixon line, and I agree that they have a lot of similarities, including the dynamics surrounding race relations in each metro area.imperialmog wrote:I think what the magaizine was trying to say is that the racial history of St. Louis is different from other Midwestern cities due to different circumstances here that didn't exist elsewhere. I keep thinking the best city to compare it to would be Baltimore due to being the only other large city that has this mixed history. I think the racial issues in the area in a way haven't been addressed in part due to that how it has been addressed in other areas wouldn't work here due to a different situation.
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Actually Cincinnati might not be a bad example, difference was I think things weren't as codified into law (though it may have in the suburbs in Kentucky) But also that may be a good reference point in terms of looking at what they did after some similar issues occurred in 2001.
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Kansas City parties on while woes mount for the St. Louis region
Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/opinion/opn-c ... rylink=cpy
Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/opinion/opn-c ... rylink=cpy