Better climate is totally subjective. Summers in Houston, New Orleans, and Miami for example are pretty oppressive.
Better climate? Are you kidding? It's disgusting down there, either because of endless heat or endless humidity. And they don't have winter. Gross. You could not pay me to live there.^^ The south has several advantages over the Midwest that cannot be overlooked. Better climate, NON-UNION workforce or right to work, newer cities with less old housing stock, endless sprawl, close to Florida and beaches/amenities and jobs.
Right to work laws? So...employees basically have no right to organize when they are being screwed? Sounds awesome, and a little like slavery's cousin!
Newer cities with less old housing stock? How about they have one city that was significantly built up before WW2, and a ton of postwar crap. Are you joking about endless sprawl as an advantage? Next time you fly out of Charlotte, take a look out the window. There are stripmalls everywhere and town centers nowhere. It is hellish. And it is the same in every southern "city". With the exception of NOLA, which has a dicey future, or Austin, the south has no real cities that are worth a damn.
Florida proximity? Again, no thanks. If I want to go to the beach, I'll go to L. Michigan or the North Shore - which are closer for one, have less disgusting weather, aren't surrounded by swamps, and have better beaches and more natural beauty.
I agree in part, but in essence, it really does get back to how a region develops and nurtures its economy and educational opportunities.onecity wrote:^My point wasn't about race, but about the concentration of people with degrees, and that historically, blacks tend to be poorer and have fewer degrees. All the rockstar cities have extremely high % of residents w degrees. Almost every city in the top 15 of that list has a huge knowledge economy. Atlanta and Charlotte have more degrees as a % than STL. Houston, and other resource-extraction meccas, probably do alright with low proportions of college educated residents, because of the nature of the resource-extraction economy. See North Dakota for another example. Right now, we are neither. Job 1 is to grow the knowledge sector, and figure out how to resurrect the middle-income, middle-skills part of the economy so the future city isn't an island of prosperity in a sea of misery.
It also circles back to how a region develops a STEM knowledge-based, energy or complex (or highly) diversified economy. Ultimately, what matters is that people, regardless of race or background, with degrees - particularly degrees in STEM - are recruited to, attracted to or are nurtured in St. Louis.
FYI: Although Asians are conferred more PhD's, Black people are conferred more degrees (Associates, Bachelors and Masters) more than any other group except whites.
Further, St. Louis' Top 10 effort is not focusing on blacks, whites, greens, blues or poverty, but the initiative is focusing on attracting people with higher educational attainment regardless of who they are - although I am sure local leadership wants to nurture all locals - including blacks. These people will create knowledge-based STEM companies and fill potential knowledge-based jobs.
I know plenty of African-Americans from St. Louis with degrees, but they live in other cities running tech firms, 5013c's, law firms, health care firms, etc. etc. It would be nice if St. Louis could lure some of them back to St. Louis.
But let's face it, St. Louis had been doing a piss poor job at reinventing its economy. Frozen Tundra Minneapolis-St. Paul has done a better job of luring and nurturing knowledge-based employers and employees. It has nothing to do with the fact it's a largely white region and people obviously don't care about how cold it gets there because more native blacks - not just Somalis - with and without degrees - have moved there over the last 20 years.
People are simply attracted to places where there are jobs and a fairly high quality of living. St. Louis is late to the game, but at least it's trying to catch up.
Different strokes.onecity wrote:Better climate? Are you kidding? It's disgusting down there, either because of endless heat or endless humidity. And they don't have winter. Gross. You could not pay me to live there.^^ The south has several advantages over the Midwest that cannot be overlooked. Better climate, NON-UNION workforce or right to work, newer cities with less old housing stock, endless sprawl, close to Florida and beaches/amenities and jobs.
Right to work laws? So...employees basically have no right to organize when they are being screwed? Sounds awesome, and a little like slavery's cousin!
Newer cities with less old housing stock? How about they have one city that was significantly built up before WW2, and a ton of postwar crap. Are you joking about endless sprawl as an advantage? Next time you fly out of Charlotte, take a look out the window. There are stripmalls everywhere and town centers nowhere. It is hellish. And it is the same in every southern "city". With the exception of NOLA, which has a dicey future, or Austin, the south has no real cities that are worth a damn.
Florida proximity? Again, no thanks. If I want to go to the beach, I'll go to L. Michigan or the North Shore - which are closer for one, have less disgusting weather, aren't surrounded by swamps, and have better beaches and more natural beauty.
Some people hate the cold. Some people like newer modern cities with new housing stock (which by the way, St. Louis has some of the oldest housing stock in the nation). A lot of people don't like that "rust belt", old city feel. Some people love strip malls and town centers.
Austin, although it is younger and hipper, in my opinion, is just a smaller version of Houston. Sprawl. But obviously a lot of people like both cities. Both are growing by leaps and bounds.
Although the tide is turning somewhat, The South has trounced the Midwest in economic growth in recent years. There are lessons to be learned from The South.
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The South is booming due to air conditioning.
Watch the upcoming series on PBS starting Oct 15th that highlights inventions that changed society, including air conditioning.
http://www.pbs.org/about/news/archive/2 ... ot-to-now/
We need to retaliate by making personal blood warmers or spray-on parkas or super-thin insulated long underwear that let's us walk around in the winter without coats. Just shorts and T-shirts.
Watch the upcoming series on PBS starting Oct 15th that highlights inventions that changed society, including air conditioning.
http://www.pbs.org/about/news/archive/2 ... ot-to-now/
We need to retaliate by making personal blood warmers or spray-on parkas or super-thin insulated long underwear that let's us walk around in the winter without coats. Just shorts and T-shirts.I am convinced that whoever settled the south established their colonies in midwinter, because no sane person would have settled there voluntarily. It should be a forested jungle free of humans. In the winter, one can always add layers. But in the sticky scorch, what does one do? Sweat, and more sweat. And hopefully not get some kind of waterborne illness or a raging bacterial infection from a minor scratch.
onecity, I was somewhat with you but you lost me when you said that the Great Lakes has better beaches than Florida. You crazy? 
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Also a lot of the southern cities mentioned have more unified government system for the most part. Also in terms of social issues like racial tensions, it seems they have been more forthcoming in part since it was more called out on it in the past while here too often people viewed it as a deep south thing and not applicable (though the St. Louis area had almost all of the same discriminatory laws and policies of the deep south with the exception of voting rights)
Also couldn't one positioning for St. Louis is that its a lot closer to the South than most of the Midwest? Could that play an advantage? Though.. I wonder if some of the economic issues is that the part of the South closest to St. Louis is the most economically distressed parts of it and not the booming areas west and east of it. (also does having poorer surrounding rural hinterlands compared to other areas play into metro area issues?)
Also couldn't one positioning for St. Louis is that its a lot closer to the South than most of the Midwest? Could that play an advantage? Though.. I wonder if some of the economic issues is that the part of the South closest to St. Louis is the most economically distressed parts of it and not the booming areas west and east of it. (also does having poorer surrounding rural hinterlands compared to other areas play into metro area issues?)
St. Louis to America: Don't be Jealous
http://online.wsj.com/articles/st-louis ... 1412273454
http://online.wsj.com/articles/st-louis ... 1412273454
You see, while you might think of St. Louis as flyover country and not pay us much due, we're kind of a big deal come October on Major League Baseball diamonds. In fact, we're kind of a big deal for a number of reasons.
Thus, I feel compelled to deliver a simple message to America: We're sorry.
The Central West End is clearly one of the best neighborhoods in the country. Colorado, Texas, Tennessee, etc, and really anything west of STL don't have anything like it. Seeing the "hip area" of Dallas is laughable to me.
Yes, almost entirely due to right to work state status. When are people here going to finally understand this? Even Michigan is RTW today. As I've repeatedly said on here, I wonder how vastly different our region would look if we went RTW in 1977. We were bigger than ATL then and i'd bet we still would be.
Notice that Houston, Dallas, Atlanta and Charlotte are in the South. The South has been kicking the Midwest's ass for the past 20 years or more when it has come to economic development and landing business. Airbus, Mercedes, Boeing, Lenovo, Honda etc. etc. etc. all have operations in the South.
Yes, almost entirely due to right to work state status. When are people here going to finally understand this? Even Michigan is RTW today. As I've repeatedly said on here, I wonder how vastly different our region would look if we went RTW in 1977. We were bigger than ATL then and i'd bet we still would be.
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among other things, i wish our mayor were a bit more street-smart. every year he paints a target on the city's back with this crap. i guess he intends it as friendly ribbing and expects everyone else will play along, but everybody else (like the author and commenters) just sees it as an opportunity to shred st. louis.JuanHamez wrote:St. Louis to America: Don't be Jealous
http://online.wsj.com/articles/st-louis ... 1412273454
You see, while you might think of St. Louis as flyover country and not pay us much due, we're kind of a big deal come October on Major League Baseball diamonds. In fact, we're kind of a big deal for a number of reasons.
Thus, I feel compelled to deliver a simple message to America: We're sorry.
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^ wow, what a classic beat down... ud called it.
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Agreed. As much as I like to defend St. Louis, the rebuttal on Deadspin was spot-on in my opinion. This latest humble-brag rant from the mayor has the fingerprints (or should I say skidmarks?) of Richard Callow all over it.urban_dilettante wrote:among other things, i wish our mayor were a bit more street-smart. every year he paints a target on the city's back with this crap. i guess he intends it as friendly ribbing and expects everyone else will play along, but everybody else (like the author and commenters) just sees it as an opportunity to shred st. louis.JuanHamez wrote:St. Louis to America: Don't be Jealous
http://online.wsj.com/articles/st-louis ... 1412273454
You see, while you might think of St. Louis as flyover country and not pay us much due, we're kind of a big deal come October on Major League Baseball diamonds. In fact, we're kind of a big deal for a number of reasons.
Thus, I feel compelled to deliver a simple message to America: We're sorry.
I'm not sure what's embarrassing: how the mayor cherry-picked the one good nugget of economic news (the growth in financial services) in a region that is an economic laggard compared to most metro areas, or how he boasted of St. Louis' 'it' people like Jon Hamm and Jack Dorsey, both of whom had to leave St. Louis to achieve success in their careers?
It's embarrassing at best and counterproductive at worst. The saving grace is that most of the people who think St. Louis is flyover country will simply ignore the article altogether. The trouble is, for those who actually read this tripe, it's a half-assed attempt to sell St. Louis, and if it's meant to make people think positively of our city in light of some stupid ranking about the Cardinals' supposed loathsomeness, it completely backfires and only serves to justify people who dislike the Cardinals because of their recent success.
This 'I'm so sorry that I'm not sorry' schtick is silly and pointless. The mayor should know not every criticism of St. Louis is worthy of a rebuttal, especially one that singles out the Cardinals because they are popular and successful!
This is just the latest in a long line of signs that prove to me how out-of-touch Mayor Slay has become. Now in his fourth term because our city cannot field a legitimate contender for whatever reasons, Slay is a potted plant in Room 200 who is much more effective at getting attention on social media than he is at addressing the real problems that hold back our city and the surrounding metropolitan area. September was one of the bloodiest months in our city's recent history in terms of homicides and shootings, but our fearless leader chooses to enter October by addressing the reasons why people starved for real baseball in places like Houston and Miami may not like the Cardinals so much. What priorities! Everything is awesome!
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Haha the deadspin rebuttal was hilarious. Mayor Slay did sound stupid and it stings a bit to hear the poster slam St. Louis as a whole because of the idiot they elected as mayor. I never saw any do that to Toronto. Hope he didn't mean it and was just driving home a very valid point about the mayor's post.
That said in baseball as in life, its better to be feared and hated than forgotten. GO CARDS!
That said in baseball as in life, its better to be feared and hated than forgotten. GO CARDS!
I can't believe the Mayor actually wrote that. It was very cringe-worthy..
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well, personally i don't think the "rebuttal" was spot on at all. i think it took its criticism to unnecessary and hyperbolic extremes. while reading it i just knew that at some point i was going to come across "St. Louis is a sh*t hole". but that's my point: Slay's naiveté invites haters to sh*t all over us and produces a bunch of bad press we don't need.threeonefour wrote:Agreed. As much as I like to defend St. Louis, the rebuttal on Deadspin was spot-on in my opinion.
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Who cares what this nobody says, he is just another butt-hurt person with a website that most people probably never heard of, I don't think this pretentious west coaster is the number one go to guy about moving to St. Louis. So everybody relax.
This is great. Though STL definitely is "some kind of hidden gem" in certain ways.And the whole "flyover" country thing reeks of Midwestern reverse snobbery. It sneers at the imaginary coastal elites who ignore St. Louis for perfectly viable reasons, and it suggests that St. Louis is some kind of hidden gem of an American city that only REAL FOLK know about.
Slay's letter is the classic disingenuous highlight reel view of STL, just cherrypicking (and somewhat exaggerating) its notable features while leaving out the real history of the place. St. Louis is a cool city with a rich history and great architecture (among other things) but, come on, we're talking about the city that's lost a bigger percentage of its population than any other in the country. Slay's pointing out STL's economic pluses just rings so hollow if you think about the economic decline and decay over the years and the serious poverty/crime problems still.
Also, there's no way Slay actually wrote that. Right? I gotta believe it was some staffer/PR person. Lame attempt at STL image rehab after the last couple month.
and btw ilivetodraw a lot of people have heard of Deadspin.
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I believe Slay's response had good intentions with terrible execution. That being said I'm just floored that someone from St. Louis would think that deadspin article was funny. Have some freaking pride in your home town for God's sake. Pathetic.
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sorry, but there actually is WAY more snobbery directed at the Midwest by elitists on the coasts than there is Midwest snobbery directed at the coasts. the "coastal elites" aren't imaginary, and this article's overreaction to such a benign piece of mayoral babbling pretty much confirms it.wustl_eng wrote:This is great. Though STL definitely is "some kind of hidden gem" in certain ways.And the whole "flyover" country thing reeks of Midwestern reverse snobbery. It sneers at the imaginary coastal elites who ignore St. Louis for perfectly viable reasons, and it suggests that St. Louis is some kind of hidden gem of an American city that only REAL FOLK know about.
Slays letter is EMBARRASSING! The deadspin guy sucks too, but wow, slay.. And the iced tea reference? It's like someones grandmother wrote this. There was no reason for a rebuttal of any kind. Did the mayor of New York out something out when people hated the Yankees in the 90's?
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^ I agree it was horrible, but when you get the opportunity to sell Saint Louis in the Wall Street Journal you certainly take it. Just don't screw it up! Get the reader (and potential investor) to root for you.... sell the storyline of the underdog that is building something special, not just with baseball but with a resurgent city. Tell them we plan to be in the World Series and that you hope that they get to see their team place us. And we'd love to see you come visit.