St. Louis, Chinese Air Hub & Aerotropolis initiative

gary kreie · PostJan 20, 2011#8762011-01-20T20:47+00:00

I believe this is the same guy KMOX had on a few months ago who said this cuurent step would never happen. Back then, I believe he said the planes would only come from places where things are made -- Chicago and Dallas -- and they woudn't truck their stuff from those cities all the way to St. Louis.

But China sells (and hopefully buys) a lot of stuff in St. Louis and the Midwest also. Why fly all of it to Chicago or Dallas only, and then truck it all the way to St. Louis. We ought to be able to support at least cargo whose destination is St. Louis eventually anyway. And then ramp up from there. Seems to work for Memphis and Louisville, which I'm sure this expert would have said were way to small to be cargo hubs back in the '80s and '90s.

Alex Ihnen · PostJan 20, 2011#8772011-01-20T21:04+00:00

I think that to become a hub, you must start with a flight.

gary kreie · PostJan 20, 2011#8782011-01-20T21:21+00:00

Alex Ihnen wrote:I think that to become a hub, you must start with a flight.

I think it goes "Even the longest journey must start with a single footstep through security in your socks." Or something like that. I'm paraphrasing.

stlcardsblues1989 · PostJan 20, 2011#8792011-01-20T23:06+00:00

goat314 wrote:Personally I think this guy is missing the point and The Charlie Brennan Show is notoriously negative and pessimistic. Why would the Chinese go this far and negotiations go this long if it is "no big deal"?

What do you guys think?

I think experts are entitled to their opinions, but I still think he's wrong.

That said, negativity is apparently a hobby of people around here, so I can understand why people choose to believe him.

Nothing is final until the ink is dry, but it looks good so far.

dredger · PostJan 21, 2011#8802011-01-21T01:14+00:00

I think point that President HU emphasized and came across in some of the reporting is that China wants to invest here. In other words, when setting up shop its not to service existing investments but places that make sense for China to invest in. In that context, St. Louis offers low cost low tax with an available highly qualified work force in a central location that happend to be along the great circle route to South America. I believe rankings are getting even more favorable for business climate.

In that context, I think Gone Corporate's optimism is right on where as the expert is narrowly focused on existing freight corridors. Unfortunately, the reporting doesn't go outside of the expert's vision.

stlcardsblues1989 · PostJan 21, 2011#8812011-01-21T06:00+00:00

Even if we get four flights going a week, someone will be complaining about how it won't last or it won't work, etc.

Again, this guy sounds like someone who knows a lot about the aviation industry, but it doesn't mean that he is right.

Alex Ihnen · PostJan 21, 2011#8822011-01-21T06:21+00:00

I think it's a matter of perspective. St. Louis should be excited to get a foot in the door. An industry analyst isn't going to see a foot in the door as some big event, or as having any real effect of established cargo hubs.

stlcardsblues1989 · PostJan 22, 2011#8832011-01-22T01:41+00:00

A trade and economic delegation from Shanghai, China, is coming to St. Louis this weekend to visit several local companies and learn more about investment opportunities.

The delegation members are with Chinese President Hu Jintao in Chicago but after he leaves, they will come to St. Louis to visit Express Scripts, Emerson and Savvis, said Tim Nowak, executive director of the World Trade Center in St. Louis.

http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/news ... press.html

Doing Business in China: Cautionary tales and advice

http://www.columbiabusinesstimes.com/10 ... %A0advice/

gone corporate · PostJan 22, 2011#8842011-01-22T22:25+00:00

The tax increases in Illinois, both for businesses & individuals, could have two major effects on potential "hub" business.

Background on the Taxes: http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt ... 76fe9.html

1. It just became that much more different for MidAmerica to grow its operations. While it may bolster Saint Louis' chances of landing this opportunity compared to Mascoutah, it doesn't help the region's efforts in setting up hubs. After all, while the efforts between Southern Illinois and Missouri may have clashed with each other beforehand, we are one Metro area (especially when considered at a global level), and a hindrance for one can effect the area's positioning as a whole, being in compliment to each other. Sadly, this is when we truly can start to think as a "region".

2. With the caveat assumption that a "hub" agreement is reached:
This could benefit Saint Louis in landing major Chinese businesses looking to set up their own operations in the Central US. The previous mindset had assumed Chinese companies would set up shop in Chicago, a hands-down true "international city", with secondary operations going up in Saint Louis to compliment the actual logistics management. With these new taxes in place for all of Illinois, the attractiveness of Saint Louis compared to Chicago for being a HQ town for Chinese businesses has grown solidly. As well, investment in US companies by the Chinese could also be more focused on Saint Louis as compared to greater Chicagoland.

Noting O'Hare is the Central US' sole airport for flights to China:
Should Chinese firms be wanting to set up their US operations in Saint Louis over Chicago, then we could see actual passenger flights to and from China, as well as cargo flights, to meet a new demand.

stlcardsblues1989 · PostJan 23, 2011#8852011-01-23T03:53+00:00

The Chinese Trade Delegation and the Midwest China Hub Commission signed a memorandum of understanding of mutual cooperation In St. Louis Today at the Four Seasons Hotel on the Riverfront.

During his visit to Chicago this week, China's President Hu Jintao and his Commerce Minister pointed to agricultural and manufacturing products produced in the Midwest as important to future trade between the two countries.

http://www.fox2now.com/news/ktvi-chines ... 7799.story

gone corporate · PostJan 23, 2011#8862011-01-23T18:47+00:00

^ Incredible. This is exactly the sort of diplomacy that I had hoped for in reaching a long-term economic development pact.

Mike Jones did put the perspective solidly in order. From the article:

Jones expects China will want to do business with such a sizable part of the U.S. But he does not expect an immediate impact. The real payoff he said would be 15 to 20 years from now.

This is the biggest truth of all. The cargo planes coming into Lambert, if they do, will be part of a very long-term relationship we are building with China, here with the city of Shanghai (via the Shanghai China Commerce Commission), the economic powerhouse of China in the 21st Century.

It’s funny that we’re building up such strong ties to Shanghai. Twenty years ago, that city was something rather similar to Saint Louis. Shanghai was an old industrial city with buildings along the riverfront, the Bund, similar to the old masonry buildings throughout Downtown Saint Louis. Meanwhile, across their riverfront was Pudong, which was a largely undeveloped space known for flooding, bad transportation infrastructure, a low standard of living, and pervasive crime elements; Saint Louis can truly relate with our neighbor, East Saint Louis.

Less than 20 years ago the Chinese decided to name Pudong a special economic development zone, and capital & resources were dedicated to its rebirth, cooperatively with investment made in Shanghai itself. With the increased viability of the renminbi /yuan, China increased its trade globally, and especially through Shanghai’s sea ports. The effects of this exporting on Pudong, and Shanghai, are evident below.

That’s just 1990-2010.

While I don’t expect in my wildest dreams development in Saint Louis emerging just like this, I do see long-term cooperative economic engagement with Shanghai to have an incredible amount of potential. If Saint Louis truly can become an aerial gateway to China, then we have better days ahead, one where we won’t always be using 1904 as our gauge for successes as new ones are constantly emerging.

Note: Of those buildings above, two of them (Shanghai World Financial Center, the one with the square, and Jin Mao Tower, the one with the crown) are of the ten largest buildings in the world, each more than twice as tall as the Gateway Arch, and with a kick-ass bar on top of the Jin Mao.

DaronDierkes · PostJan 23, 2011#8872011-01-23T19:11+00:00

^note the change in air quality...

xing · PostJan 25, 2011#8882011-01-25T04:57+00:00

gone corporate wrote:^ Incredible. This is exactly the sort of diplomacy that I had hoped for in reaching a long-term economic development pact.

Mike Jones did put the perspective solidly in order. From the article:

Jones expects China will want to do business with such a sizable part of the U.S. But he does not expect an immediate impact. The real payoff he said would be 15 to 20 years from now.
This is the biggest truth of all. The cargo planes coming into Lambert, if they do, will be part of a very long-term relationship we are building with China, here with the city of Shanghai (via the Shanghai China Commerce Commission), the economic powerhouse of China in the 21st Century.

It’s funny that we’re building up such strong ties to Shanghai. Twenty years ago, that city was something rather similar to Saint Louis. Shanghai was an old industrial city with buildings along the riverfront, the Bund, similar to the old masonry buildings throughout Downtown Saint Louis. Meanwhile, across their riverfront was Pudong, which was a largely undeveloped space known for flooding, bad transportation infrastructure, a low standard of living, and pervasive crime elements; Saint Louis can truly relate with our neighbor, East Saint Louis.

Less than 20 years ago the Chinese decided to name Pudong a special economic development zone, and capital & resources were dedicated to its rebirth, cooperatively with investment made in Shanghai itself. With the increased viability of the renminbi /yuan, China increased its trade globally, and especially through Shanghai’s sea ports. The effects of this exporting on Pudong, and Shanghai, are evident below.

That’s just 1990-2010.

While I don’t expect in my wildest dreams development in Saint Louis emerging just like this, I do see long-term cooperative economic engagement with Shanghai to have an incredible amount of potential. If Saint Louis truly can become an aerial gateway to China, then we have better days ahead, one where we won’t always be using 1904 as our gauge for successes as new ones are constantly emerging.

Note: Of those buildings above, two of them (Shanghai World Financial Center, the one with the square, and Jin Mao Tower, the one with the crown) are of the ten largest buildings in the world, each more than twice as tall as the Gateway Arch, and with a kick-ass bar on top of the Jin Mao.

Wow!

the count · PostJan 25, 2011#8892011-01-25T17:03+00:00

And this is what we're getting after 20 years. Sigh.

urbanpioneer · PostJan 25, 2011#8902011-01-25T18:49+00:00

^ Come on. I assume (or hope) that you are being facetious? Downtown has clearly seen much more progress than that. It's that St. Louis inferiority complex rearing its ugly head again.

the count · PostJan 25, 2011#8912011-01-25T19:02+00:00

My point was that this would be the first new office tower built in over 20 years. No inferiority complex, just the facts.

bonwich · PostJan 25, 2011#8922011-01-25T19:24+00:00

1) Did the previous posts get appended to the wrong thread?

2) In any event, that building looks like the genetically deformed offspring resulting from inbreeding the Magic Chef Building and the Equitable Building.

RobbyD · PostJan 25, 2011#8932011-01-25T19:30+00:00

^1. We are onto the self-defeating conversation of comparing the growth of Shanghai, China to St. Louis, USA...Like trying to hit a Bob Gibson fastball...

2. I hope you aren't onto forcasts with the analogy...I'm thinking odds are such a deformed creature wouldn't live long and surely won't be able to multiply...

bonwich · PostJan 25, 2011#8942011-01-25T19:39+00:00

Oh, it'll live plenty long. You just have to watch out for it being turned into a self-storage facility.

the count · PostJan 25, 2011#8952011-01-25T19:43+00:00

RobbyD wrote:^1. We are onto the self-defeating conversation of comparing the growth of Shanghai, China to St. Louis, USA...Like trying to hit a Bob Gibson fastball...

Right. No harm in comparing once in a while and reflect, though. Now let's get back on topic before the mods catch us.

RobbyD · PostJan 25, 2011#8962011-01-25T19:49+00:00

@Bonwich It'll probably never happen...I mean, we all know villages don't have self-storage facilities...That's what the "outskirts" are for... =/

gary kreie · PostJan 28, 2011#8972011-01-28T18:24+00:00

There is a great story in the post today about Missouri hog farmers and their hopes for the China hub.

http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/ ... 4c2d2.html

There are several things I didn't know about China and pork and why the air hub can work for transporting pork form St. Louis. Such as, the Chinese eat more pork than they grow, and the newly wealthy may be willing to fly some of it in to get it fresh, rather than frozen -- the way we fly fresh fish in to St. Louis. Here are a couple of excerpt:

"A very little fraction of meat is sent by airplane, because the freight cost is so high. … It runs up the cost, dollars versus pennies," said Jim Herlihy of the Colorado-based U.S. Meat Export Federation. "I can't say there's not the potential if they're looking at high-end restaurants. But if you're looking for large-scale retailers and food service sales, the cost of air traffic versus cargo ship, it's really significant."

Still, producers here hope wealthy Chinese will decide that loins and steaks are a better match for their new status — and that they will pay a premium to have them flown in fresh.

"We're really now beginning to focus on the market with the biggest potential — the high-end restaurants and hotels," said Rex Ricketts, director of the University of Missouri Extension's commercial agriculture program. "We're really focusing on the fresh market. … The hotel and restaurant business is just exploding because of the business climate."

The commission is talking to the big meat processors, such as Cargill and Smithfield, which are, in turn, talking to people on the ground in China.

The industry also faces some regulatory hurdles. The Chinese government closed its market to American pork after the H1N1, or swine flu, scare of 2009, opening it up only last year. Chinese officials closed the market for American beef in 2003 amid the mad cow scare, and it remains closed.

"We're working through trade representatives in D.C., making sure we get some agreements signed," said Jeff Windett, executive vice president of the Missouri Cattlemen's Association. "There's a real opportunity to get agricultural products on those flights and do our part as far as balance of trade."

framer · PostJan 29, 2011#8982011-01-29T05:01+00:00

Mmmm......bacon

dredger · PostFeb 03, 2011#8992011-02-03T21:15+00:00

You wonder if stories like this out of the Chicago Tribune have any bearing or weight on decisions coming out of China. I can't image much of an impact. However, it has to bode well for the region when infrastructure is already in place.

As far as Chicago O'hara, This has to be frustrating as most of their expansion revolves around the existing airport footprint and utilizes better runway alignments to increase utilization and decrease delays.

Chicago Delays $1B Bond Sale for O'Hare
01/28/2011
Chicago Tribune
Text size: AABy Jon Hilkevitch and Katherine Skiba, Chicago Tribune

Jan. 28--Facing a lawsuit from two major airlines, Chicago has delayed a $1 billion bond sale aimed at keeping runway construction progressing at O'Hare International Airport, city officials said Thursday.

stlcardsblues1989 · PostFeb 11, 2011#9002011-02-11T05:44+00:00

Shanghai is also the hub for China Cargo Airlines, an airline studying St. Louis-Lambert International Airport as a potential cargo hub for new Chinese-U.S. trade. Airline representatives will visit St. Louis on Feb. 20 to study and negotiate possible air routes and schedules. China Cargo Airlines recently merged with other companies to make it China’s largest cargo airline and one of the largest in Asia.

While Shanghai students are graduating from Webster and Chinese business leaders are traveling to St. Louis, many local residents remain unaware of these changing global relations, stubbornly focused on local racial tensions.

http://www.stlamerican.com/news/local_n ... 002e0.html

St. Louis, Chinese Air Hub & Aerotropolis initiative

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