I remember getting off for Ted Drewe's on Grand Blvd. Is that "South Grand?" If so, there was an amazing amount of people walking the streets during that time. People walking around with bags from the local stores and what not. And I mean PACKED.
I get nervous about is how dead it will be at night when everyone goes back to the suburbs after work. Will there be grocery stores within walking distance? Do people even walk on the streets at night? Will I get mugged? Are there young people around?
You haven't been downtown STL lately. Not the same place it use to be my friend.
Wash Ave is classy, edgy and very alive in the evenings. Lots of restaurants and retail and take a look around at what is coming up on Washington Avenue through the forums.
Grocery - City Grocers is at Locust and Olive downtown.
Schnucks and another grocers are expected to move in downtown soon as well.
Safety - Washington Avenue and downtown is safe (as much as Chicago is "safe"). Young people - absolutely - very trendy.
Good luck - come down and see for yourself.
I'm from St. Louis as well. I'm nervous on the fate of the city. I compare moving back to St. Louis as getting back together with a girlfriend that's cheated on me. Will the city "cheat" on me, is its word trusting?...in other words, will a Sky House esque lifestyle in st. louis be what i imagine it to be...or will it be another empty promise? Why go back to stl when i'm in a place like chicago, where the lifestyle is guaranteed, much like a faithful girlfriend. St. Louis to me is that girlfriend that is mysterious that you love so much, and want more than anything to work out, but is missing a few screws and have those doubts in the back of your mind. Thus, I'm sketchy on making the move...damn anxiety.
Everytime I go back to stl, after about a year or two I feel cheated on...like the progress everyone talks about isn't as great as hyped...things are still under construction. Things are still "pending". Everyone yells "Bottle DIstrict!!" SWEEET!!!...but where is it? What's going to happen to it, honestly? Sky House seems totally sweet, and if they had a Whole Foods store and all this cool stuff people rumor about, it would be BADASS. And if successful, could really drive growth for future such projects. But there's still that little strand of doubt and mistrust.
Anyway, I don't know if that makes any sense.
Stlmike, where in Lakeview?! I'm right smack in boystown - aldine/broadway.
Everytime I go back to stl, after about a year or two I feel cheated on...like the progress everyone talks about isn't as great as hyped...things are still under construction. Things are still "pending". Everyone yells "Bottle DIstrict!!" SWEEET!!!...but where is it? What's going to happen to it, honestly? Sky House seems totally sweet, and if they had a Whole Foods store and all this cool stuff people rumor about, it would be BADASS. And if successful, could really drive growth for future such projects. But there's still that little strand of doubt and mistrust.
Anyway, I don't know if that makes any sense.
Stlmike, where in Lakeview?! I'm right smack in boystown - aldine/broadway.
Actually, it's Lincoln Park, but basically on the border. Near Diversey / Sheffield.
Another example I just thought of. In Chi, when you hear word of a project going through, like the spire, something tells you that it will happen. And you automatically think of how cool it will be, and is even a better feeling when you walk by randomly and see half the building made already, ie trump tower. But that kind of thing doesn't happen in st. louis -- labor unions/costs, weird politics, etc. (ballpark village) Things just seems to happen in Chicago. I just have this sort of self-doubt about such projects in St. Louis.
It's just humbling as well when you start living in cities like beijing or chicago, you don't even think twice high rises going up, like it's second nature. But back in St. Louis, it makes the evening news. Don't get me wrong, I truly want to see St. Louis, my favorite city, take the nation by surprise to blossom in what it can be, and what everyone subconsciously wants it to be. I just hope that our wishes come true.
It's just humbling as well when you start living in cities like beijing or chicago, you don't even think twice high rises going up, like it's second nature. But back in St. Louis, it makes the evening news. Don't get me wrong, I truly want to see St. Louis, my favorite city, take the nation by surprise to blossom in what it can be, and what everyone subconsciously wants it to be. I just hope that our wishes come true.
- 11K
phoaddict wrote:I'm from St. Louis as well. I'm nervous on the fate of the city. I compare moving back to St. Louis as getting back together with a girlfriend that's cheated on me. Will the city "cheat" on me, is its word trusting?...in other words, will a Sky House esque lifestyle in st. louis be what i imagine it to be...or will it be another empty promise? Why go back to stl when i'm in a place like chicago, where the lifestyle is guaranteed, much like a faithful girlfriend. St. Louis to me is that girlfriend that is mysterious that you love so much, and want more than anything to work out, but is missing a few screws and have those doubts in the back of your mind. Thus, I'm sketchy on making the move...damn anxiety.
Everytime I go back to stl, after about a year or two I feel cheated on...like the progress everyone talks about isn't as great as hyped...things are still under construction. Things are still "pending". Everyone yells "Bottle DIstrict!!" SWEEET!!!...but where is it? What's going to happen to it, honestly? Sky House seems totally sweet, and if they had a Whole Foods store and all this cool stuff people rumor about, it would be BADASS. And if successful, could really drive growth for future such projects. But there's still that little strand of doubt and mistrust.
Anyway, I don't know if that makes any sense.
Stlmike, where in Lakeview?! I'm right smack in boystown - aldine/broadway.
My 2cents is that if you're looking for Chi-town in StL you're not going to get it. Much has changed and is changing. The Central West End and South Grand are getting close to 24/7 neighborhoods, but I wouldn't say they're there quite yet. Sure there are young people downtown and some nightlfe, but from my experience the sidewalks are still pretty empty. Once the projects being completed currently fill up there will be much more streetlife. I say come back, get in cheap and be a part of the revival, just don't expect it to be here already. You know the ex-girlfriend? I know it wasn't always good, but when it was good, it was GOOD!
stlmike wrote:phoaddict,
I currently live in Lakeview myself but am a native of St Louis. I think that if you are looking for an area similar to your situation, you should consider checking out neighborhoods like the Central West End or something off of South Grand.
That is the problem right now, all the natives think of "downtown st louis" as dirty and bad. But of course it is not.
I live on Washington and 12th, and have been there for 14 months now. When I first moved there I thought it was cool, but was probably going to move to the central west end for more life, restaurants... However, in ONE YEAR, everything has changed so much. I love it so much, I am looking for a place to buy. Coming from NYC, it feels like my own private city with great architecture. I consider it like cheering for the underdog… so there really is nothing to lose, only something to gain.
True, STL cant match Chicago, but then again Chicago cant match NYC…
One thing I am truly surprised is how YOUNG everyone is that lives downtown. Anyone else find this true in their building? (I am a resident of the Meridian and it must be 80% under 30 years old)
I think the current problem is that all the natives in St Louis don’t even consider downtown, and with so many new condos going up…. I am hoping it doesn’t flood the market. (Though it would be good for me
)Wow, it's funny how two replies can totally shift one's thinking. This forum is badass.
That's really cool to hear. I'm like totally excited for St. Louis and I pray to God that downtown and city will just take off like wildfire. I'm going to be in STL wed the 10th till 15th, and I'm definately going to Wash Ave.
That's really cool to hear. I'm like totally excited for St. Louis and I pray to God that downtown and city will just take off like wildfire. I'm going to be in STL wed the 10th till 15th, and I'm definately going to Wash Ave.
- 11K
^ Just make sure you post your reactions/concerns here - would be interesting to hear.
phoaddict wrote:I'm from St. Louis as well. I'm nervous on the fate of the city. I compare moving back to St. Louis as getting back together with a girlfriend that's cheated on me. Will the city "cheat" on me, is its word trusting?...in other words, will a Sky House esque lifestyle in st. louis be what i imagine it to be...or will it be another empty promise? Why go back to stl when i'm in a place like chicago, where the lifestyle is guaranteed, much like a faithful girlfriend. St. Louis to me is that girlfriend that is mysterious that you love so much, and want more than anything to work out, but is missing a few screws and have those doubts in the back of your mind. Thus, I'm sketchy on making the move...damn anxiety.
Everytime I go back to stl, after about a year or two I feel cheated on...like the progress everyone talks about isn't as great as hyped...things are still under construction. Things are still "pending". Everyone yells "Bottle DIstrict!!" SWEEET!!!...but where is it? What's going to happen to it, honestly? Sky House seems totally sweet, and if they had a Whole Foods store and all this cool stuff people rumor about, it would be BADASS. And if successful, could really drive growth for future such projects. But there's still that little strand of doubt and mistrust.
Anyway, I don't know if that makes any sense.
Stlmike, where in Lakeview?! I'm right smack in boystown - aldine/broadway.
This is a very good analogy! I like most people on this forum knows that St. Louis is that dime piece chic everyone wants that goes out with that ugly ass low class fool named Missouri. We just hope that one day she breaks up with that guy and does what we want her to. I'm very optimistic for St. Louis and I think that all the pieces will fall together eventually, It will just come at a slower pace right now, but I feel that St. Louis is on the brink of a boom.
Good talk!
Let's just make sure we keep this thread on The SkyHouse and focused.
Thanks.
Let's just make sure we keep this thread on The SkyHouse and focused.
Thanks.
matguy70 wrote:Good talk!
Let's just make sure we keep this thread on The SkyHouse and focused.
Thanks.
Yeah my bad, I just had to comment. But Skyhouse should be a great addition to the downtown area. Like I said in a previous post, I think St. Louis is on the brink of a major housing boom in the city as people look for more convenient urban living.
^I feel its about to boom as well (felt that for 10 years or so, since I moved back from Cincinnati. You could feel that change.)
And a hilarious comment about 'going out with Missouri.'
And a hilarious comment about 'going out with Missouri.'
shadrach wrote:^I feel its about to boom as well (felt that for 10 years or so, since I moved back from Cincinnati. You could feel that change.)
And a hilarious comment about 'going out with Missouri.'
Well I dont know if this remark is condescending or not, but you have to admit St. Louis has made more developmental strides in the the last few years than in the last 40.
Yes and no. I know how phoaddict feels and am disappointed many times. On the other hand, you're right. STL has made great strides in the last three years. I feel we're gaining momentum and, yes, it will boom. I have (and had for a long time) faith in this city.
When I came back to STL from Cincy in 1994, there was a different vibe. The city gained pride and a little posture. It was more cosmo and braver than when I left and had accepted--this is key-- the funkiness that is STL rather than trying to be some other place. I think that mental groundwork was necessary for STL to make a comeback. And now, a lot of people are believers. It's only a matter of time.
When I came back to STL from Cincy in 1994, there was a different vibe. The city gained pride and a little posture. It was more cosmo and braver than when I left and had accepted--this is key-- the funkiness that is STL rather than trying to be some other place. I think that mental groundwork was necessary for STL to make a comeback. And now, a lot of people are believers. It's only a matter of time.
shadrach wrote:Yes and no. I know how phoaddict feels and am disappointed many times. On the other hand, you're right. STL has made great strides in the last three years. I feel we're gaining momentum and, yes, it will boom. I have (and had for a long time) faith in this city.
When I came back to STL from Cincy in 1994, there was a different vibe. The city gained pride and a little posture. It was more cosmo and braver than when I left and had accepted--this is key-- the funkiness that is STL rather than trying to be some other place. I think that mental groundwork was necessary for STL to make a comeback. And now, a lot of people are believers. It's only a matter of time.
Agreed, I just didn't understand where you were coming from first. St. Louis is one of the most unique cities in the country. I've been around and St. Louis is definitely one of a kind. Hopefully projects like Roberts Tower and Skyhouse will further push this momentum.
In my opinion, the most bustling neighborhood of St. Louis is The Loop. Yeah, it's kind of sad that most of it is technically a suburb, but if you're looking for hustle-bustle, lots of diversity and a funky vibe, The Loop is far and away the place to be. Street performers, street vendors, stuff going on at all hours. The CWE is very crowded, but it's mostly the restaurant/cafe crowd these days. South Grand is amazingly diverse, I wouldn't call it "vibrant" necessarily, at least not on the weeknights. Washington Avenue is well on its way, but it's not there yet. In a couple years it will definitely be the place to be.
As you may know, I (unfortunately) live in Atlanta now. The difference between here and there is all those neighborhoods you mentioned in STL are in closer proximity here. Hence more momentum, more vibrancy which leads to more and more.
If STL could "stitch" those neighborhoods together...ah, that would be awesome!
If STL could "stitch" those neighborhoods together...ah, that would be awesome!
That is the problem right now, all the natives think of "downtown st louis" as dirty and bad. But of course it is not.
Just to clarify, my comment was to not to downplay downtown St Louis. But even in big cities, not everyone wants to live downtown. I wouldn't want to live in downtown Chicago, which I think of as a business, and glitzy shopping, upscale-touristy restaurant district. Downtown St Louis is great I think, but I was just recommending those other places as something more comparable to Lakeview in Chicago--a smaller neighborhood, coffee shop, type of area with transit to downtown.
shadrach wrote:As you may know, I (unfortunately) live in Atlanta now. The difference between here and there is all those neighborhoods you mentioned in STL are in closer proximity here. Hence more momentum, more vibrancy which leads to more and more.
If STL could "stitch" those neighborhoods together...ah, that would be awesome!
I agree but Metrolink does connect many of these neighborhoods, but Atlanta is way more Sprawled and ridiculous than St. Louis. St. Louis beats Atlanta in culture every time. Atlanta, Houston, Dallas are products of the sunbelt/new south sprawl movement that St. Louis obviously couldn't capitalize from. What St. Louis needs to try to capitalize on now is the Urban Revival movement that seems to be sweeping the country right now, because in 10 years I think this movement will be in full swing and I would hate to see the sunbelt communities capitalize off of sun and urban renewal, when its our for the taking.
I was refering to the old near downtown neighborhoods of Virginia/Highlands, Little Five Points, Midtown and a dozen little corner bars and coffee shops. They are all less than a mile or so from each other--almost walkable.
Beyond that -- forget it! Metro Atlanta is a horrific conglomerate of everything wrong with self-absorbed, over comsuption, suburbia. (was that too harsh?)
Beyond that -- forget it! Metro Atlanta is a horrific conglomerate of everything wrong with self-absorbed, over comsuption, suburbia. (was that too harsh?)
shadrach wrote:I was refering to the old near downtown neighborhoods of Virginia/Highlands, Little Five Points, Midtown and a dozen little corner bars and coffee shops. They are all less than a mile or so from each other--almost walkable.
Beyond that -- forget it! Metro Atlanta is a horrific conglomerate of everything wrong with self-absorbed, over comsuption, suburbia. (was that too harsh?)
This is true! It seems like Atlanta is the exact opposite of everything St. Louis represents.
- 1,054
The thread has digressed into flattery and biased opinions, not that I deny my affection for the city, but bragging and comparisons are not constructive criticisms.
Back to the Skyhouse:
According to the research I found in the Journal of Planning Education and Research, the amount of persons turning age 65 in America will rise drastically after 2010 for several years consistently and remain high for the coming two decades. This presents a complementary demographic most prone to switching from the suburban house to the urban lifestyle. Skyhouse will be but one early responses to this change in urban pattern. Major urban cities like St. Louis need to enact policies (update zoning, land use, building codes, etc...) to further private investment in more urban developments.
One major action would be a light rail or better yet a subway/rapid rail line below either Delmar, Washington, or Olive Avenues. Such a subway line will allow greatly enhanced density in the central corridor from Downtown to the Central West End. The cost savings from transportation will be reflected in the land rents or property values. The relatively short distance between the districts would be reflected in the enhanced accessibility between them in time savings and speed. Rapid rail is faster than light rail and causes an even higher level of intensity of land use.
That being said, building subway instead of light rail, in general terms, would greatly change the urban development pattern or the City.
IOW
More Skyhouses if the American economic market conditions are favorable.
Back to the Skyhouse:
According to the research I found in the Journal of Planning Education and Research, the amount of persons turning age 65 in America will rise drastically after 2010 for several years consistently and remain high for the coming two decades. This presents a complementary demographic most prone to switching from the suburban house to the urban lifestyle. Skyhouse will be but one early responses to this change in urban pattern. Major urban cities like St. Louis need to enact policies (update zoning, land use, building codes, etc...) to further private investment in more urban developments.
One major action would be a light rail or better yet a subway/rapid rail line below either Delmar, Washington, or Olive Avenues. Such a subway line will allow greatly enhanced density in the central corridor from Downtown to the Central West End. The cost savings from transportation will be reflected in the land rents or property values. The relatively short distance between the districts would be reflected in the enhanced accessibility between them in time savings and speed. Rapid rail is faster than light rail and causes an even higher level of intensity of land use.
That being said, building subway instead of light rail, in general terms, would greatly change the urban development pattern or the City.
IOW
More Skyhouses if the American economic market conditions are favorable.
Having spent a lot of time in Atlanta in the last year, I agree that the traffic and sprawl are terrible. However, as a previous poster mentioned, there are some great neighborhood areas close in to downtown. There's also a definite energy to Atlanta - and lots of great independent restaurants and shops. Atlanta also seems to be attracting a really diverse immigrant population, and has a booming African-American middle and upper class.
Does anyone know how pre-sales are going? How many more units have to be sold in order to break ground? What an exciting project. Between the Skyhouse and the Roberts Tower, downtown St. Louis is going to look pretty sleek.
I wish Midtown could enjoy the growth that downtown and the CWE have been experiencing.
I'm not quite sure how to do this but I'm replying back to a couple of people. When I went to a wine night a week or so ago the Chicago sales rep said that they had 25% of their penthouses sold and that they are on target as far as presales go.
Someone(Phoaddict perhaps) mentioned something about being from Chicago and well the differences here and there. A lof of good posts had been mentioned on this city and other cities. As a Chi-town native or maybe I should say a suburbanite too... I moved down here to find exactly what I was looking for in a great price range. Parks... grocery store (granted it is a little expensive)with four blocks, bars and restaurants galore... a quick trip on the Metro to the airport or to a concert in Loop. I love all of it. It does seem like new construction moves pretty slowly.... but I'm not really sure how to compare it to other cities, since I never really paid attention before now. AND I would love it if there were more options for doctors, dentists etc in walking distance ( I love the fact that I can walk to the salon, walk to go shopping, walk for a quick bite to eat)
Anyways I'm taking a gamble moving to a new city, new life etc. but I think it will all be worth it, more and more lofts opening up and more and more people are buying or renting. Love it! This is definitely not Chicago - prices are lower, there aren't as many people, but people aren't as pushy either.
Focus Misty1711 Focus! Back to the Skyhouse is that groundbreaking still going on Oct 10th? Does anyone know?