DeBaliviere wrote:I believe the Lions Oil building to the left once was home to the giant "Lindy Squared" mural.
I would love it if someone could repaint that mural on another building.
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I would love it if someone could repaint that mural on another building.
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^
I was researching this a few years ago, and I think there was a smaller version commissioned for the airport, which was later taken down during remodeling.
I don't remember it (I was very young when it was up), but the pictures I've seen are awesome.
I was researching this a few years ago, and I think there was a smaller version commissioned for the airport, which was later taken down during remodeling.
I don't remember it (I was very young when it was up), but the pictures I've seen are awesome.
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RBB wrote:Check out "Busch Stadium" on p. 15.
-RBB
LOL, I saw that!
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One copy of Lindy Squared was in St. Louis Centre for many years.
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1. at least it says "make it urban" on the cover
2. good to see some rethinking of the I-70 cover project - just covering and planting grass won't help - easy and inviting pedestrian access is a must
3. riverfront looks fun - hopefully something happens there
4. my favorite: pg 22 (the arch grounds attack the river while the far east CBD invade west, hoping to capture Clayton!)
2. good to see some rethinking of the I-70 cover project - just covering and planting grass won't help - easy and inviting pedestrian access is a must
3. riverfront looks fun - hopefully something happens there
4. my favorite: pg 22 (the arch grounds attack the river while the far east CBD invade west, hoping to capture Clayton!)
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From the December 22 Downtown Partnership update……Beginning next week, the Parking Lot north of Locust between 8th and 9th will be closed. Preparations are underway to begin construction on a new park. Details will be unveiled shortly.
Walking up Locust on Tuesday, I noticed that the parking lot is closed and that some clearance work had begun. A small bobcat seemed to working on the land adajcent to the Mayfair hotel. Maybe all this mess has been cleared up, though I am sure in a fashion that makes no sense (another park for the homless together).
I know this whole thing has been the subject of much scrutiny, but it sure sounds cool. Honestly I am not very familiar with layout but the mental image seems promising.
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F that! give me the Century and a garage on this lot any day!
I understand the need for parking. But why the Century. Good to see the Roberts plaza is proceeding and I await the new rendering. Too bad they couldn't work out underground parking. I would think that the Laclede gas building would obstruct views of the arch. wish they could have built taller than 25 stories. But I can't complain about the first DT residential new construction in my lifetime.
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"It will be something the neighborhood can relate to but dramatic enough to be a destination also," Cloar said. "It will have a performance area, but it won't look like a performance area when not in use."
So, it will basically be like Kiener Plaza?
Wouldn't it be better to put the money used for this project towards the Arch connector instead?
^Great news, just what the downtown with way too much green space/ park space needs: 3 Kiener Plazas.
1. Of course, the orginal which you all know.
2. Kiener North (aka. Old Post Office Plaza)
3. Kiener South (aka. Ballpark Village Plaza)
1. Of course, the orginal which you all know.
2. Kiener North (aka. Old Post Office Plaza)
3. Kiener South (aka. Ballpark Village Plaza)
^ I think the OPO plaza will end up being the best out of the 3 you mention. From previous renderings it looks like it at least has a larger paved section - as opposed to the grassy-looking Keiner and BV plazas, which should help invite more people into it. It also will have a nice mix of office, residential, retail, and academic uses bordering it to keep people coming in and out of the area througout the day. The article also mentions that the plaza/park (parkza?) will be used for outdoor dining for the new building’s restaurant. I think it stands a good chance of being a lively place, relatively speaking.
I personally don't have the seething hatred of green spaces that seems to be prevelant on this board. In my mind, the biggest problem with St. Louis's spaces isn't the spaces themselves but instead, the areas around the spaces. IE, we should have dense residential space around the edges of Kiener Plaza rather than massive parking garages. Or that the green space by the dome is useless not because of its inherent lack of value, but instead because it is surrounded by a parking lot, a highway, and a generally dead space. I think the OPO plaza and the BPV plaza will both end up being fine because they will both be surrounded by significant residential space.
Having said that, Keiner east of 7th is gorgeous and shouldn't be touched. And even Keiner between Tucker and 7th, I would rather see more art on Keiner and see downtown south fill in, rather than see that area filled in. West of tucker, the green space serves little purpose because it's too concentrated.
Having said that, Keiner east of 7th is gorgeous and shouldn't be touched. And even Keiner between Tucker and 7th, I would rather see more art on Keiner and see downtown south fill in, rather than see that area filled in. West of tucker, the green space serves little purpose because it's too concentrated.
Hmm. Well BT, I will try and explain my thinking about downtown greenspace.
There is just too much of it. Yes, I do agree that if more development occured in the areas surounding much of the downtown greenspace, the parks would be more lively. But I also belive that even with such development, there is just way way too much green space all concentrated.
For as much as I made fun of the 3 Kiener's above, I do agree with most that all three will be great looking parks. The orginal Kiener could be better if those garages were office towers, but either way, all three are (or will be) srounded (for the most part), by building full of people and all three spaces will be nice parks. I think the current Kiener Plaza is pretty nice and with a little sprucing up, particular on the eastern half of the block, it would be great.
As for the rest of downtown's green space, I really think the current trend of these mini-parks dotted throughout downtown is a much much better way to go about creating downtown green space that will fill with people and apear active than the blocks upon blocks of city beautiful parks. If we took this idea another step, I would rather see the City swap out much of the greensapce between Market and Chestnut for smaller parks on other parcles. Think about replacing the parkland between 16th and 14th along Market with a park between 16th and 17th on Washington.
The City's leaders simply lack the vision to see how much more useful, atractive, and lively downtown's greenspace could be if we opted for pocket parks and mini-parks throughout downtown rather than a long strip of useless parkland. Intergrate the parks into the downtown fabric. Create 10 or 20 small Grammercy Park's throughout downtown. That should be the model we follow and thankfuly, the two proposed downtown parks (OPO Park and BV Park) seem to follow that design. Now all we need is for downtown to take the next step.
There is just too much of it. Yes, I do agree that if more development occured in the areas surounding much of the downtown greenspace, the parks would be more lively. But I also belive that even with such development, there is just way way too much green space all concentrated.
For as much as I made fun of the 3 Kiener's above, I do agree with most that all three will be great looking parks. The orginal Kiener could be better if those garages were office towers, but either way, all three are (or will be) srounded (for the most part), by building full of people and all three spaces will be nice parks. I think the current Kiener Plaza is pretty nice and with a little sprucing up, particular on the eastern half of the block, it would be great.
As for the rest of downtown's green space, I really think the current trend of these mini-parks dotted throughout downtown is a much much better way to go about creating downtown green space that will fill with people and apear active than the blocks upon blocks of city beautiful parks. If we took this idea another step, I would rather see the City swap out much of the greensapce between Market and Chestnut for smaller parks on other parcles. Think about replacing the parkland between 16th and 14th along Market with a park between 16th and 17th on Washington.
The City's leaders simply lack the vision to see how much more useful, atractive, and lively downtown's greenspace could be if we opted for pocket parks and mini-parks throughout downtown rather than a long strip of useless parkland. Intergrate the parks into the downtown fabric. Create 10 or 20 small Grammercy Park's throughout downtown. That should be the model we follow and thankfuly, the two proposed downtown parks (OPO Park and BV Park) seem to follow that design. Now all we need is for downtown to take the next step.
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I'll echo what JMedwick said and will just add that if the Ambassador Building was still standing just a block to the east, I'd be a lot more excited about OPO Square.
JMedwick wrote:Hmm. Well BT, I will try and explain my thinking about downtown greenspace.
There is just too much of it.
Absolutely. I've long been a raving hater of green space proposals, simply because people are so easily seduced by them. "Hooray! Green space for the overcrowded, teeming urban jungle!" Well, we green spaced the "urban" right out of existance. Oops! There needs to be an active chorus of people willing to stand up and say that all green space isn't necessarily good.
I don't <I>hate</I> green space -- I love a nice urban park as much as the next guy -- but it must be created wisely and sparingly in an urban environment.
That said...
As long and loudly as I've opposed the square behind the Old Post Office, it's actually in a good location for an urban plaza, or at least what <I>should</I> be a good location. Tear down a few more garages, build up a few parking lots, and kill off some of the Gateway Mall's endless expanses of empty acreage, and there'll actually be some legitimate reasons to have a public square at that location.
As long and loudly as I've opposed the square behind the Old Post Office, it's actually in a good location for an urban plaza, or at least what should be a good location. Tear down a few more garages, build up a few parking lots, and kill off some of the Gateway Mall's endless expanses of empty acreage, and there'll actually be some legitimate reasons to have a public square at that location.
My sentiments exactly. I actually like public plazas, but they only work when they actually feel like the exception instead of the rule.
if the Ambassador Building was still standing just a block to the east, I'd be a lot more excited about OPO Square.
One of the biggest mistakes downtown has made.
stlmike wrote:if the Ambassador Building was still standing just a block to the east, I'd be a lot more excited about OPO Square.
One of the biggest mistakes downtown has made.
Bigger than the Buder, International and Title Guaranty? Bigger than St. Louis Centre? Bigger than Union Market? Bigger than citing a giant concrete staircase as major progress on the riverfront? Bigger than not having synchronized stoplights or safe pedestrian crossings? Bigger than having a skeletal, graffitied building as the welcoming point for the majority of travelers from the east?
Or merely one of a long series of really big and largely unrectifiable mistakes?
Bonwich, that's a well-done and succinct review of the most egregious mistakes made in downtown (and problems that are still ignored by TPTB) that should be required reading for our leaders, lest they repeat these mistakes...
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bonwich wrote:stlmike wrote:if the Ambassador Building was still standing just a block to the east, I'd be a lot more excited about OPO Square.
One of the biggest mistakes downtown has made.
Bigger than the Buder, International and Title Guaranty? Bigger than St. Louis Centre? Bigger than Union Market? Bigger than citing a giant concrete staircase as major progress on the riverfront? Bigger than not having synchronized stoplights or safe pedestrian crossings? Bigger than having a skeletal, graffitied building as the welcoming point for the majority of travelers from the east?
Or merely one of a long series of really big and largely unrectifiable mistakes?
Bigger than Pierre Laclede founding the city here instead of someplace warmer?
