Midtown Station - Pace Retail Development

FrankRider · PostJul 31, 2013#762013-07-31T03:33+00:00

^ Actually Spring was a through street to Chouteau somewhere up until the early ninties I believe (someone else on here will surely do the research soon)

. I believe it was torn down due to deterioration to the road deck or supports and the cost was too high so they tore it down. But yes it did travel over 40 in between the two decks. It was closed to traffic years prior. Probably why you never noticed it.

wabash · PostJul 31, 2013#772013-07-31T03:59+00:00

I think you're right. Spring had to be taken out when the highway went double decker. This would preclude bringing Spring back between Forest Park Ave and Chouteau.

Since Spring can't be replaced it's all the more important to maximize the Vandeventer, Boyle, and Spring corridors for traffic, transit, bikers, and pedestrians.

Between Midtown Station, 3949 Apartments coming back with a neighboring CVS, the new rumored SLU housing, a Whole Foods a couple blocks away, continued CORTEX investment, a Boyle Metrolink station, a Lindell streetcar, and the possibility of one of the recent hotel proposals happening, the entire east end of the west end could feel very different in the near future.

FrankRider · PostJul 31, 2013#782013-07-31T12:03+00:00

FrankRider wrote:^ Actually Spring was a through street to Chouteau somewhere up until the early ninties I believe (someone else on here will surely do the research soon) . I believe it was torn down due to deterioration to the road deck or supports and the cost was too high so they tore it down. But yes it did travel over 40 in between the two decks. It was closed to traffic years prior. Probably why you never noticed it.

So I decided to stop being lazy and did some quick research. VanishingSTL did a report back in May of 2009. Spring was built as a traffic reliever, in the early 60's, for the Grand bridge that was about to be rebuilt.

http://vanishingstl.blogspot.com/2009/0 ... venue.html

The article states that the bridge was

Closed to traffic and partially demolished over a decade ago

, which would seem to confirm the mid 90's demo.

chaifetz10 · PostJul 31, 2013#792013-07-31T13:47+00:00

wabash wrote:Since Spring can't be replaced it's all the more important to maximize the Vandeventer, Boyle, and Spring corridors for traffic, transit, bikers, and pedestrians.

I still think Trailnet or Great Rivers should look into creating a trail from SLU/Grand Center down to CORTEX, BJC, and Forest Park using in part the old rail trestle that goes into the Federal Mogul site over Vandeventer. I'm rehashing what I posted a few days ago, I know...

shadrach · PostJul 31, 2013#802013-07-31T14:35+00:00

^BTW, I really sparked to that idea (couple days ago( and think it's great. I've always liked that bridge. Losing it would be another step toward urban-blanditization.

Now if we could just get PACE, Great Rivers and SLU in the same room and tell them how it should be done.

wabash · PostJul 31, 2013#812013-07-31T14:47+00:00

Another option, instead of running it down through Federal-Mogul and along the train tracks (which would be great), would be to run a bike/running path right down the middle of Forest Park Parkway. FPP is three lanes of traffic + one lane of parking on either side. If you took just one of those and added it to the median you'd have something like the Wydown median or St. Charles Street "Neutral Ground" through which the streetcars run in New Orleans. Of course Target and IKEA would probably balk at there being less road around their store. But it could be a good way to add separated bike lanes between SLU-Grand and Forest Park. A slight road diet and greater accommodation of bikers, joggers, and pedestrians could actually help encourage more retail and residential along the Parkway.

jem79c · PostJul 31, 2013#822013-07-31T14:57+00:00

^ My only concern with the above is that, and I might be off-base, entities like GRG/Trailnet/etc are looking to complete larger scale greenway connections with their funding rather than these more "in-fill"y type routes. http://www.greatriversgreenway.org/disc ... -ring.aspx

Putting down some sharrows on FPP and completing their regional bike routes with the capital they do have is more likely. Not to say they won't have some sexy bike connections (like the tressle project http://www.friendsofthetrestle.org/) - so maybe with enough noise and demand they could be convinced that putting in separated lanes should be their next "want not need" project.

chaifetz10 · PostJul 31, 2013#832013-07-31T15:16+00:00

I would think that it might be able to be pieced together through different entities. Surely CORTEX wouldn't be opposed to adding a bike path through their part, since they're adding the common grounds area along Boyle anyways (I don't want to spend their money for them, but they seem to be very open to progessive ideas such as this). Same for BJC.

I guess my vision was a path that actually starts down at Chaifetz Arena and Harris Stowe, heads west along the old Lacledge sidewalk...goes through SLU along the West Pine sidewalk/spine, snaking down near the PACE project via Spring where it crosses Vandaventer at the trestle...winding along the tracks and past the silos till it hits Boyle, following the CORTEX park North till it hits Ducan and then following Duncan all the way down to Euclid. Again, this is just my pet project vision without no connections or resources to make it happen. But that would sure be nice to connect the entire area!

jem79c · PostJul 31, 2013#842013-07-31T15:21+00:00

^A stronger bike/ped route from the Grove connecting to it as a spur could work too along any of those N/S bridges... of course with all the road work going on there, trying to add such a thing after the fact might be difficult.

bonwich · PostJul 31, 2013#852013-07-31T20:23+00:00

For the record:

p-d, 2001 wrote:STRETCH OF EASTBOUND HIGHWAY 40 WILL BE CLOSED THIS WEEKEND FOR RAZING OF SPRING AVENUE BRIDGE
Thursday, 3/22/2001
By Ken Leiser\Of The Post-Dispatch

Going to the Blues game against the Chicago Blackhawks on Saturday afternoon?

If you're taking Highway 40 (Interstate 64), you may want to give yourself some extra time - or consider a different route. Eastbound Highway 40 will be closed this weekend at the Chouteau/Vandeventer exit while the city tears down the 42-year-old Spring Avenue bridge over the traffic lanes.

The eastbound stretch of Highway 40 will be closed at 8 p.m. Friday. It will reopen no later than 6 a.m. Monday.

Traffic will be diverted to northbound Vandeventer Avenue and then to eastbound Forest Park Boulevard. The detour traffic will then re-enter eastbound Highway 40 near Market Street.

Deputy City Engineer Joe Kuss said the city's demolition contractor, D&S Wrecking, has already started part of the project.

The $285,000 demolition project will involve peeling off the concrete bridge deck and moving the steel beams that support the deck. Built in 1959, the Spring Avenue viaduct was closed to traffic in 1987 because it was in poor condition.

Kuss said the project was complicated because there was not much room between the Spring Avenue bridge deck and the bottom of the elevated section of westbound Highway 40 above it.

It won't be the first time a major St. Louis highway has been closed for a weekend to accommodate road work.

"This is pretty similar to what (the Missouri Department of Transportation) has been doing with bridges along Interstate 70, " Kuss said.

The St. Louis Police Department will be on hand to help motorists along the detour. Electronic message boards have been used to alert motorists to this weekend's closure.

innov8ion · PostJul 31, 2013#862013-07-31T20:56+00:00

bonwich wrote:The St. Louis Police Department will be on hand to help motorists along the detour. Electronic message boards have been used to alert motorists to this weekend's closure.

Wonder what "electronic message boards" they used back in 2001?

goat314 · PostJul 31, 2013#872013-07-31T21:22+00:00

"The other unusual aspect of the site on Forest Park Avenue is that it's bisected by an old freight-railroad spur. And here's the opportunity:

Much of the rail line on the Midtown Station site is elevated. The unused line crosses over Vandeventer Avenue on a graffiti-marred trestle and extends west to Boyle Avenue. Heitz says he's had some preliminary talks with the Great Rivers Greenway District about converting the old rail line into a bikeway.

That could be a big deal because of plans to build a MetroLink station at Boyle. And Boyle runs through the middle of the CORTEX life sciences district, whose leaders are working to grow the area to have thousands of scientists, other research-related workers and residents.

Todd Antoine, director planning for Great Rivers, said today that his agency is talking with Pace about incorporating the Midtown Station rail spur into the Chouteau Greenway, a proposed bikeway between Forest Park and downtown St. Louis."

http://www.stltoday.com/business/column ... 67b3f.html

Alex Ihnen · PostJul 31, 2013#882013-07-31T22:05+00:00

Here's the quick visual:

rbeedee · PostJul 31, 2013#892013-07-31T22:23+00:00

Maybe it could be connected to the planned greenway/bikeway being planned along Clayton Avenue through CORTEX to Forest Park (more in the massive pdf here).

chaifetz10 · PostAug 01, 2013#902013-08-01T13:12+00:00

^AWESOME! I really wish I could take some bit of credit (even like .001%) for this!

moorlander · PostAug 01, 2013#912013-08-01T15:11+00:00

Alex Ihnen wrote:Here's the quick visual:

so damn cool

Alex Ihnen · PostAug 01, 2013#922013-08-01T16:56+00:00

The trestle's in good shape. I'd venture that one could ride a bike across it today, though perhaps not safely.

stlexplorer · PostAug 02, 2013#932013-08-02T05:31+00:00

I doubt that it would be easy to bike across now, but I haven't tried.

It's not nearly as bad as "the trestle" is now though.

That's actually the easy part to walk across. I have to say though that this rail feeder must be much older than the spring viaduct, and seems to be in better structural condition than that bridge was when it was demolished at a relatively young age.

jem79c · PostAug 02, 2013#942013-08-02T13:55+00:00

I can see it now - St. Louis: the City of Elevated Tressles

chaifetz10 · PostAug 02, 2013#952013-08-02T15:59+00:00

This may be the closest thing St. Louis can come to our version, albeit smaller, of the Highline. (Which I saw a few weeks ago in NYC...it's absolutely incredible.)

ecoabsence · PostAug 02, 2013#962013-08-02T17:51+00:00

The High Line is amazing because it wends through dense development, and its presence has spurred new construction around it.

The trestle here will offer great views of a giant surface parking lot and retail boxes. Hopefully no one will seriously compare the trestle at Midtown Station to the High Line -- because it is the difference of doing something right and doing something without considering context.

The trestle possibility should raise the bar on Midtown Station and force changes. Otherwise we'll end up with a poorly-planned development and a trestle sandwiched between elevated highway lanes and a giant surface lot. Nothing particularly High Line-esque about that...

Citified · PostAug 02, 2013#972013-08-02T18:57+00:00

^ Won't The (branch street) Trestle currently being developed by Great Rivers be more comparable to the Highline then what may be envisioned for this site?

rbeedee · PostAug 02, 2013#982013-08-02T19:17+00:00

I don't think a bikeway here would be in any way comparable to the High Line (and the Branch Street Trestle won't be very much like the High Line either). It could still be useful in its own right, though as a way to establish a nice bike route from Midtown/Grand to Cortex to Forest Park. Not every elevated pathway is the High Line, and not every elevated pathway needs to be the High Line to be useful.

Alex Ihnen · PostAug 02, 2013#992013-08-02T19:36+00:00

^ Right. In fact, no other elevated pathway is the High Line. The comparisons are harmful.

jem79c · PostAug 02, 2013#1002013-08-02T19:52+00:00

^Agree. Instead of touting our "Highline Junior" I think it would be much more beneficial to see more of these pop up and connected into one larger City Tressle network and make it our own unique asset rather than trying to compare it to what cities with 25x our population have

Midtown Station - Pace Retail Development

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