urbanSTL

^ I've heard plenty of people say St. Louis is lame, but 90% of them are St. Louisans who grew up in the suburbs. My fiance who is from Pittsburgh, says she loves St. Louis...actually said its like a better Pittsburgh, yes....yes she did. My friends from Florida are always gushing over how they love St. Louis and cant understand how it isnt better known. My East Coast friends cant believe that we have let all these brownstones go to waste. One time I was at a convention downtown and this local girl I know was apologizing to these Chicago people for how "lame" St. Louis is, their response? "We actually like St. Louis, its a charming places"...no bullsh*t. So like I said, St. Louis has BIG problems, but its honestly not as bad as locals think and the only thing that pisses a lot of native expats off is that we waste so much potential. Now people I dont understand.....people who sh*t on St. Louis, but say Indianapolis and Nashville are happening and interesting places.

I'll add my 2 cents. I've been to 45 countries and 40+ states, I travel for a living and for fun, originally from Buffalo, lived in Florida, came to school in Alton 05-08, moved to STL city in 2012 after living various other places and travelling. My fiancé and I moved here after comparing many other cities to live and in reality our jobs allow us to live anywhere, the CWE and FP along with better weather than the NE really sold us. The thread title is comparing other US cities and in short I think we are doing very well but lack of press coverage can shape a regional psyche. I know people pine over Pittsburgh but only urban lovers really like the idea of that city. I've met plenty of people over the past year or 2 from Pits who don't know how recognized the city is. Same with Cleveland, I grew up going there quite a bit, as recently as this summer, yes it's doing OK and I'm glad to see it revitalizing, but since a handful of new stories aired in a positive light it's now gained momentum.

I think St. Louis offers much more than other similar peer cities it just doesn't always receive due recognition. We will never be a hipster enclave like Portland or Austin but we are a much bigger metro area and have much more to offer. One of the cool aspects I love here is the neighborhoods. I've never been to a city other than NYC that offers as diverse selection of neighborhoods as here. The Achilles heal is the distance between them and being out of the central corridor may put them out of notice for visitors. I'd love to see them advertised more and a circulator style bus between them. I'm not worried about our downtown, it's coming back, but some of our neighborhoods are thriving, CWE made top 10 in the US. Unfortunately many people judge a city by its downtown.

The previous comment about people from St. Charles hating the city and only going to downtown while visiting other cities main sights is SPOT ON. I'd really like to see suburbanites take more advantage of the city as we are TIRED of explaining yes we actually chose to move here and love it, and no Chicago isn't all its cracked up to be. There are some delusions people keep saying: Low cost of living and how friendly people are. I find in my travels people in the NE to be much more open, although they do swear more. The cost of living here isn't what comes to mind for "Midwest living" as compared to lets say Springfield IL. I have many friends from NY State in addition to us who say how expensive it is to live in the city, meals and drinks were actually pricier than when I was in LA eating on the beach, and ours sales tax is higher than just about anywhere I've been. Living in the city costs 2% more / year in taxes than in Illinois, and Personal Property Tax is another tax not many other places have. All in all its not bad but not what I would call cheap either.

We absolutely love it here and can't stop bragging about it. Friends and family from all over the US visit and are really amazed at the diversity the city, suburbs, and outdoors have to offer. I'm all for keeping our city as progressive as possible and sure some other cities are a little ahead of us, I just hope our leadership will take note.

blzhrpmd2 wrote:...is someone whose has lived in NYC, Boston, Chicago, or Philadelphia supposed to be impressed with that? More in our league, places like Cincinnati have beautiful urban parks nestled in possibly a prettier setting with more interesting topography, and plenty of historic architecture as well.
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I've had multiple situations where people have flat out asked me why St. Louisans think the city is so great. As time has gone on, I don't really have a good answer anymore besides this is home and I think it's fantastic.

With the exception of a few places, if you turn the question around and ask people why they like their cities so much their answers are going to be largely the same as our: "our parks, our architecture, our art scene, our neighborhoods, our history, the people, etc." A few places can say "our scenery" and a few big big cities can say "we have more of everything" but by and large the answers are going to be the same. People become attached to places for a variety of different reasons, and often those reasons are difficult to put into words but no less valid. I've been to each of NYC, Boston, Chicago, and Philadelphia and I would still rather live in St. Louis because, IMHO, NYC is way to big/crowded/expensive for my taste, Boston has terrible weather, and Chicago and Philly are both ugly (again, IMHO). Don't get me wrong I think NYC and Boston are awesome places, but I have no desire to live in either. And frankly I think most people end up doing the same sh*t no matter where they live.

Water is fundamental to life. St. Louis obviously has much more fresh water than many other cities. I don't see why we aren't marketing that fact. I mean, why on Earth is Tesla building a huge factory in the middle of the dessert? Why are businesses and people still moving to areas the have no direct access to fresh water? Really, this should be a top priority. Are people simply in denial of the ever-growing water crisis?

framer wrote:Water is fundamental to life. St. Louis obviously has much more fresh water than many other cities. I don't see why we aren't marketing that fact. I mean, why on Earth is Tesla building a huge factory in the middle of the dessert? Why are businesses and people still moving to areas the have no direct access to fresh water? Really, this should be a top priority. Are people simply in denial of the ever-growing water crisis?

There IS denial on the western water crisis. St. Louis needs to be ready with land, workers, energy, AND a good quality water supply for those seeking it in the years ahead.

Is St Louis region the only region were people in the burbs are afraid to go downtown?

My neighbors in west county always ask us why do we keep going downtown for restaurants and deal with all the crime when there are plenty of restaurants out here. One neighbor on time told us about a year ago I did not know there were residents on Washington ave I am not kidding about that.

True_dope wrote:Is St Louis region the only region were people in the burbs are afraid to go downtown?

My neighbors in west county always ask us why do we keep going downtown for restaurants and deal with all the crime when there are plenty of restaurants out here. One neighbor on time told us about a year ago I did not know there were residents on Washington ave I am not kidding about that.

Those people don't have anything to offer. They aren't the solution to anything. They don't have the skills, ambitions, or finances to be a part of St. Louis' city's economy. They are dead weight.

MatthewHall wrote:

True_dope wrote:Is St Louis region the only region were people in the burbs are afraid to go downtown?

My neighbors in west county always ask us why do we keep going downtown for restaurants and deal with all the crime when there are plenty of restaurants out here. One neighbor on time told us about a year ago I did not know there were residents on Washington ave I am not kidding about that.

Those people don't have anything to offer. They aren't the solution to anything. They don't have the skills, ambitions, or finances to be a part of St. Louis' city's economy. They are dead weight.

Agree

blzhrpmd2 wrote:^That's not fair. They may be misinformed, close-minded, and stubborn, but could easily contribute to the city with better education. I know similar people with good jobs that offer plenty-even if their attitudes are extremely frustrating. Based on average incomes in west county, can you explain further how a resident there doesn't have the ambition or finances to contribute to the city?

Making money doesn't necessarily correlate with ambition.

I think the issue is close-mindedness more than anything else. I did the reverse commute for years out to O'Fallon, MO. When my coworkers found out I lived downtown you would have thought I had leperosy (they couldn't believe my car hadn't been broken into and my wife hadn't been raped). Years later when we had our first daughter down there I got the feeling they were ready to call child protective services on me at any moment.

The city really needs to do a better job of marketing itself. I'm from a small Illinois town where the attitude toward the city was very similar to that in West County. My experience living in the city the last 9 years has been great. I just don't know how to convey that to others. My reality should have more merit than their perceptions based on their parents misgivings and the local news.

blzhrpmd2 wrote:To bring this back around to the thread question: I would venture a hypothesis that as a region/city we collectively have a higher percentage of rural-minded people than some of our other peer cities which contributes to at least an apathy in regards to making STL City the residential and economic center of the region.

I'd agree with that.

And it kind of leads to a question- Is the City more likely to see quick, true results towards growth from putting its resources more heavily towards attracting outsiders vs locals/regional residents? Obviously these options and strategies you'd use aren't very mutually exclusive, but there may be a different prioritization of tools/strategies in your toolbox you'd use depending on what you believe will result in a more realistic impact. Local/regional St. Louisans (people who are already in the region) might consider quality-of-life type issues like public safety and service delivery more when considering the City for dining, recreation, entertainment, and moving into the city. Outsiders might allow their perceptions of our downtown viability to factor in more when considering if they'd want to relocate to our region at all. Again, I realize you can't go all in on one strategy entirely to the neglect of the other, and the results of both strategies would have impacts upon all people that would be difficult to isolate into a strong cause and effect relationship, but your prioritization of how much of your city's resource to allocate to either strategy could matter.

It's a difficult but interesting question to delve into. Great residential neighborhoods may be our City's best asset that both locals and newcomers can come to see over time. Our downtown is really weak, and gives visitors- from outside the region and even from the region- a poor perception of our city upfront. A strong downtown with job growth may also be needed to keep those neighborhoods viable as more than just pretty places. Obviously, you keep working on both, but which one do you prioritize? Do you prioritize?

"Is the City more likely to see quick, true results towards growth from putting its resources more heavily towards attracting outsiders vs locals/regional residents?"

The answer is outsiders. http://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/ ... ntegration

It has been said (by Dave Chappelle) that racism is more open in the South, and hence, that makes the South more honest and attractive. Or maybe its just the weather. But there are plenty of places north of here that have better growth than us. It has also been said (I got it from an old In the Heat of the Night TV episode) that in the North, whites don't care how big blacks get, so long as they don't get close, and in the South, whites don't care how close blacks get, so long as they don't get big. But the racial dot map http://demographics.coopercenter.org/DotMap/ would suggest otherwise.

I think its something in the water. I had an elderly gentleman customer from NOO UCITY the other day, tell me about the trouble he was having with sand in his water. I told him about the trouble I have with the water leaving stains. I think thats it. More money for MSD.

And yet I have to choose between 3 pea brains (only doing what the "polls" demand) tomorrow to represent me. Although I don't blame them or even their constituents. I think maybe the region as a whole actually wants stagnation.

http://www.stltoday.com/business/column ... 37ec4.html

Here's a good article about St. Louis and all the various rankings it shows up in. I thought it might be a nice addition to the discussion about measuring St. Louis against other peer cities.

Regarding the comparison of Metrolink and Atlanta's MARTA system, the ATL just approved the 12 mile extension in the northern burbs out to Alpharetta.

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/prin ... nsion.html

And there is significant support from the locals and the biz community to have the system reach them. Relatedly, Mercedes-Benz USA choose to relocate its HQ to Sandy Springs in part b/c it is serviced by MARTA (unlike its current home in suburban Jersey.) Undoubtedly there is a ton of sprawl with their high regional growth, but the region is also doing a lot of smart things.

Just got back from San Francisco and had some anecdotal thoughts.

I generally love the energy and vitality of cities but there comes a point when it becomes obnoxious. Downtown SFO was a sewer of traffic and people (My base was the Union Square area). Too much concrete and noise, too few human spaces to gather/interact. And those steep uphill blocks don't help much either when you are a pedestrian. It was a relief to escape out of the core to interesting neighborhoods.

SFO did not feel as diverse as I would expect a city its size to be. A lot of the same kind of people/stores everywhere.

Got me thinking. Though we crave that bustling atmosphere again for St Louis downtown, there is a way for it to go wrong. St Louis already has a great personality. I hope we don't sell out to commercialism. And I hope we can continue to accommodate a diverse population.