urbanSTL

Where is this information about TJ coming from? I've heard people say on here that "that would be cool" but don't recall any remotely serious proposals. Does anyone know what the source on this is?

There was a presentation given at SLU about the project that mentioned Target and Trader Joe's across 40 from the Macy's (Famous) wearhouse just south of SLU's campus - sorry I don't know the thread.

Here is the link to the St. Louis Post Dispatch story on Lumiere.



http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/busine ... enDocument

"We don't want to become known as part of Laclede's Landing"



The casino people actually said that!

It sounds like this Lumiere Place will be anti-urban by building off the underground tunnels and privatized amenities like parks only for residents or gamblers. Expat, I have heard about this same privatization of the public space in Tyson's Corner (Is that true?). Either way William Whyte in the Social Life of Small Urban Spaces talked about this ocncept of public like areas that are privately owned and controlled so as to remove "undesirables." This includes the street, sidewalks, parks, and benches which adds to the shift towards income segregation where one needs to have enough money to venture into Lemiere Place or Boulevard St. Louis. This trend began with the half-block cut throughs through New York City buildings to the shopping mall to gated subdivisions. Now gated or heavy security "urbanized neighborhoods."



I believe Mike Davis, author of the Ecology of Fear along with the new urban sociological metropolis form called the Los Angeles School is correct that American society is moving towards a system based on fear, angst, and pessimism as opposed to the optimistic Chicago School on urban sociology from 1920s (Wurth).



My question to St. Louis City is what can they do in the developer agreement to maintain a viable pedestrian, urban, and public realm without blank walls or privatization. Sadly, the moneyless City stands to gain from privatization in increased revenue. What's more important money or the welfare of the citizenry and our democratic republic?

Personally, I took that quote to mean that they didn't want to be considered JUST part of the Landing.....meaning they wanted to be more than just a casino within the Landing, but also a major part of the neighborhood (residential, etc.). Who knows, but that is how I took it when I first read it, and that is a lot of money to invest in that area, so personally I am excited. That being said, the notion of parks, etc. for residents only is pretty ignorant planning in an urban environment and apparantely '60's era urban planning theories are still rampant among planners everywhere.

Should we assume that the Sundecker's/Mississippi Nights strip is history?

I think this will be good development. Is it a bad thing to replace a brownfield with exclusive residential towers? I don't know, but the city will benefit from this. We can always find negatives in these developments, but this isn't as if a few sqare blocks in the CWE was just made private (that happened in the 1920's) - we're talking about a plot of dirt isolated by two bridges and an Interstate.



This is great - residential and retail . . .

The Las Vegas-based gaming company announced it is expanding the project, now named Lumière Place, to add more retail and residential space, which will double the company's total investment to nearly $1 billion.

I like the idea of the moving walkway - there are examples in Italy that work very well. However, I hope these would not put people directly into the casino, but just get them to the 'neighborhood'. Imagine using this to get from Wash Ave to the grocery store - this could be very cool.



Re: private parks and pools - nearly every loft development has its own private pool and I would be shocked if the 'private parks' were anything more than a rooftop green area or courtyard.

guys - lets wait till we see some renderings before we pile on this development. At thi spoint - we shold be excited. This sounds like major - new development downtown.

Should we assume that the Sundecker's/Mississippi Nights strip is history?

I sincerely hope not. Mississippi Nights is one of our greatest assetts for music and I hope so much that it could be incoporated into the design. With so many great clubs closing and this one still pulling in great names, it would be a shame.



I can't remember who, but I remember talking to someone on this board who worked there and had knowledge of booking. Please let us know what the deal is.

markofucity wrote:guys - lets wait till we see some renderings before we pile on this development. At thi spoint - we shold be excited. This sounds like major - new development downtown.

The renderings are up in the pinnacle office on the landing...FYI

how do they look

Reminds me of something like the Crescent in Dallas. It's an opulent enclave that appears private but is open to anyone with money to spend.



I think this is HUGE for what it indicates about confidence and real estate values in the St. Louis market. Market forces should compel the Landing to start performing as it was expected to over the past 30 years.

OMFG! Let's hope not. May I present the Crescent in Dallas . . .

I knew it has been rumored for quite some time, but actually having a Four Seasons Hotel as part of this casino project is HUGE. I'm optimistic about this new developemnt, and Matt is right, this bodes incredibly well for the St. Louis market.



Looking forward to seeing the new renderings!

I have to say that it is quite amazing how much anti-rheteric we can get on any new projects in Downtown St. Louis. may be good - because we can be choosy now? may be bad - because we are being too choosy? Who knows, but I for one and just glad to see investments like this happening on their own (not just because a stadium went up next door).



Period.

jeffrk wrote:I knew it has been rumored for quite some time, but actually having a Four Seasons Hotel as part of this casino project is HUGE. I'm optimistic about this new developemnt, and Matt is right, this bodes incredibly well for the St. Louis market.



Looking forward to seeing the new renderings!

True. While the Westin is a very nice place and could be considered a 4 star hotel, its a low to mid 4 star. Having a Four Seasons is excellent for St. Louis and downtown. Look at their locations in the US and the only other city on our level with a 4S is Austin TX. When you look at the list of locations in America and around the world St. Louis will seem out of place.



Isn't Ameristar in St. Charles also building a four star hotel? Won't it be a Conrad or some other high end brand new to St. Louis?

I'm not a big fan of the Projects that Jerde has done in the U.S. (at least the ones featured on the website), but I do like most of their designs elsewhere in the world. Especially Japan.

Arch City wrote:matguy, in all of my years of being on boards like this, I think you make a good observation. Although I think some dissention is healthy, I've never experienced naysaying and skepticism so strong and consistent from local residents.

I know.



People are b*tching about a project, with little if any public money, that could reach more than $1 billion in downtown St. Louis because there could be some private parks? And this development will be of areas that are empty warehouses, lots and parking areas?



I'm confused as to why some people view this as a negative? Please explain.