urbanSTL

From the KMOV TV report:



"The project's centerpiece is unique. It's a honeycombed concrete barge being constructed to float in a concrete basin constructed around it. There's just 5-feet of clearance on each side. "





There is obviously no 5 feet of clearance in this rendering, so either the sidewalk cantilevers out over the moat, or the moat is between the wall in the rendering and the casino barge, meaning the wall in the rendering is fake. That would explain the opaque glass. Hmm... Or, I suppose the report could be completely wrong. Journalists never seem to get construction or engineering details right...



In any case, if they had just been allowed to build on land, a) Pinnacle could have made this a much nicer facility, more integrated with Landing, b) the money they sunk into creating the basin and barge could have been spent on the hotel or the retail aspect of the project, or c) that money could have been used to invest in more residential projects on the Landing. Whether Pinnacle actually would have done any of these things is another matter, but building a giant bathtub two or three blocks from the river is ridiculous.

That concrete crap is exactly that...crap. It looks hideous. Looks like something they would build out in St.Charles. YUCK

^I totally agree with you, JMed. Gamblers are, of course, very superstitious. If they aren't having any "luck" at one casino, they will very quickly get up and walk to another, if any are nearby. This is exactly what Pinnicle DOESN'T want. And it's exactly what the Landing NEEDS.

One of the big reasons that the Strip in Las Vegas is so successful is because all the Casinos build of each other success. If all the regions Casinos were on the same section of river, each with a marina, water taxis and a good road system, it could be so cool, but NO - they must spread out and those municipalities that get the casinos get lots of $$, others are left out. It is done poorly as it is, and there is no real chance for another casino right next door. Oh well, lets hope it is good in itself.



Decent Article in the Post today on how gambling doesn't really help communities that much, especially considering how casinos build them selves up to be so beneficial. STL had more revenue of gambling than Reno last year. in 2010 (with the completion of the two casinos in Lemay and downtown and the expansion of the queen in ESTL) STL is slated to be the 5th biggest gambling area in the country..

tbspqr wrote:STL is slated to be the 5th biggest gambling area in the country..

Oh yay. The difference between St. Louis and those other 4 markets is that most of their revenue comes from OUTSIDE the area, whereas here...

Its true that casinos truly benefit only when they bring in outside money .. but the real "plus" for St. Louis isn't the casino itself. The casino is a great idea MAINLY because the city believed that it could leverage the rights to open one to guarnatee - other - new development on the landing. If Pinnacle really does build a few mid rise condos it could stoke the rebirth of the landing as a true neighborhood ... that should be the city;s goal. The casino itself is almost a wash ... the casino needs to be a catalyst to create a living, breathing, urban district on the river ...



actually ... I don't think its true that the casino itself is a wash either ... I certainly don;t think that it will have the impact that they claim - but it will have a greater impact than some of the pessimists state for one main reason ....



the casino is conneted to the convention center. Conventions are - by definition - outside money. If the casino can make St. Louis a more attractive convention market - and hopefully it can - then it truly will be a plus for the region ...



st. lous better do this right .. and I must say I'm not very encouraged so far (haven't heard much in the way of new development from pinnacle being discussed and they are seemingly building a fortress that will cut off all the casinos patrons from the landing itself) ..... casue if they do it could be a real winner.

This is great. The biggest markets in St. Louis are beer and gambling.

St. Louis Texan wrote:This is great. The biggest markets in St. Louis are beer and gambling.

What's wrong with that? Or are you bragging?

TheWayoftheArch wrote:Obvisously, you're not a gambler...

You must be superman...able to leap giant logical obstacles in a single bound...just because I'd like to see this project designed so that it doesn't create a giant dead zone for pedestrian activity on the Landing, then I'm not a gambler? Hmm...

TheWayoftheArch wrote:There is a reason for the 5 foot clearance...so it can be easily traversed. No portion but the actual gambling floor will be in the moat area. The retail will be on the other side of this honeycombed wall. Look at the designs of Ameristar and Harrah's...the restaurants and hotels are outside the gambling area, leaving them, to be built on land. Only their gaming facilities are on their respective "barges". What this means with this bathtub is that it will be easy to create a seamless entry from restaurant and niteclub areas into the gaming area, like the above casinos. You never realize when you cross into the barge area because it is concelaed. You do not see the separartion unless its a small casino like the three boats (President, Queen, Argosy). However, it still totally leaves the possibility, as the hotel and retail will not be on the barge, to integrate it into the street, in an outward facing fashion.

Umm, yes I realize all of that. I was commenting on the fact that you can't see the moat in their rendering, which is either intentionally deceptive, or, if the rendering is accurate, quite the engineering feat. Yes, you can create a "seamless entry" between the casino and the hotel/retail, but it is much more difficult and expensive, and thus highly unlikey, to create numerous "seamless entries" between the SIDEWALK and anything on that barge. In any case, the difference between this project and those others you mention, however, is that this "barge" is not on the river. It is right in the middle of one of our supposed entertaiinment districts, and right next to the convention center. That barge and 5 foot moat take up about a third of the entire site, and it is the closest portion of the site to the Landing.

TheWayoftheArch wrote:Therefore I fully expect them to be able to do what we all hope/expect...engage the development on the street level.

The question is, why do you expect them to do that? They certainly don't have the desire (why do you think they are building the tunnel and skywalk?), or need, to do that. The only question is whether the city has demanded that they do that. And, my concern is that I see absolutely no evidence on any of the renderings, or in the project description, or from the actual construction to date, that indicates that they intend to do what you say. But you seem to be pretty confident in that, and since, from your comment, you obviously ARE a gambler, then I guess you are willing to bet the future of the Landing and convention district on your belief. For my part, since I am an occasional gambler, I would be willing to put up a sizable chunk of change that you are going to be extremely disappointed if you think this project will be "integrate(d) into the street, in an outward facing fashion."

i was aware of their support for the loft project - but, as you said, that was scheduled to happen anyway. If thats all the city gets from this deal then I would call it a poor outcome. I'm clearly hoping for some real development that will jump start the landing as a true urban neighborhood.

I cant decide if i was serious or not in my above post.

Tonight at the old spaghetti factory is the rendering release party... Is anyone else going.??.. I have a passes but i'm not sure if i'll be able 2 make it...If i do i'll take my camera...

^Rendering release for what?



The casino? I didn't think it was changing from what is posted on their website. Or are you referring to the residential development portion?

Found a sweet progress photo, although I don't know when it was taken. I think it was sometime in the last 4 weeks. Not my photo so here's a link:



http://imageevent.com/kcphotos/aerialss ... =0&z=9&l=0

Yes, new ariels. Very exciting.



That pic appears to be from about 2 weeks ago.

^^^I see the bathtub is taking shape...

Great picture, ArchMadness - thanks for posting the link.



How long until Pinnacle (or someone else) buys out that old motel directly to its north on North Broadway? That land - the motel and its parking lot - will be prime property once the casino is done.

^But such land may end up under the MLK coupler bridge (westbound I-70) and its ramp connections to Broadway/Cole and existing I-70.

Great shot! Looks like the hotel should start showing up on the skyline within the next couple of months.



What's up with those giant inflatable figures along Broadway?