urbanSTL

That thing on the roof of the hotel looks suspiciously like a billboard. I wonder if their going to flash trashy electronic self-promos there, a la the Roberts Orpheum? That would really be visual catastrophe.

Did danyone else catch the business journal article online this morning? Says that Pinnacle is adding 80 million dollars to the project - and it even notes that "more retail" will be added.



Curious if they design we're lookign at incorporates the new elements ... anyone know. ...

^



Here's a link to the story



Link to Biz Journal 6-19 story

Mayor Slay also refers to it on the site today.

Pinnicale continues to step their game up. Perhaps they will surprise some here yet and crank out a quality development.

I've been told by a building inspector that works the downtown projects that Pinnacle has only submitted engineering and architectural plans to the city for the below grade portion and the first floor. Everything they are building now has not been approved, but the fines they will pay are cheaper than shutting the site down.



This makes me wonder if there actually could be some changes to the outside. We have already seen the actual street facade change from a blank wall to include what appears to be spaces for shops, so I wonder if they are trying to open it up more to the outside world.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/busine ... enDocument

The increased budget will be used in part for the addition of a nightclub, parking and site improvements, retail stores and other program adjustments.

MattnSTL wrote:We have already seen the actual street facade change from a blank wall to include what appears to be spaces for shops, so I wonder if they are trying to open it up more to the outside world.

We have? Where have we seen that? Nothing on the renderings I have seen looks remotely like exterior retail.

I didn't mean it was necesarilly retail, but if you compare the most recent rendering in this thread to the earliest with this design, the outside wall is much more inviting, with space that could conceivebly be retail, instead of just being blank. Not great, but better.

All the announcement says is that they are spending more money to add a nightclub and retail. Their website has always said the casino would include an upscale nightclub and retail, so I don't understand the announcement. Are they adding another nightclub? More retail? Or is this just pr nonsense?



I also really doubt that any of that retail or entertainment space will have a seperate exterior entrance. There is the fact that the casino is technically floating on water, so I suspect they will have as few entrances to the casino portion as possible. Hopefully, the nighclub at least will have a separate entrance, but as has been stated on here many times, it is a casino, and their goal is always going to be to get people inside gambling.

MattnSTL wrote:I didn't mean it was necesarilly retail, but if you compare the most recent rendering in this thread to the earliest with this design, the outside wall is much more inviting, with space that could conceivebly be retail, instead of just being blank. Not great, but better.

I think what you are referring to is just frosted glazing, i.e. opaque windows with no doors. Notice what looks like an entrance on the left side of this rendering, except, if you look closely, those don't look like doors do they? And, all those people milling about in the picture are doing just that - milling. Not entering or exiting. So, the question is, why would anyone ever be on the sidewalk at this intersection??? Except maybe for a few homeless people in all of those nice quiet nooks and crannies Pinnacle has provided.

I really don't like those inter-building bridges.

^That would be all the smokers standing around.





You dig far too deep to make a small point. It's quite annoying that you always have to be right and get the last word.



So that may not be retail. At least it's more inviting than the original blank walls. I would suspect that may be an entrance anyway. The reason the glass could be opaque is because there is nothing to show inside. Again, this is just speculation. Either way, this is just a rendering and we are just guessing as to what is in it, so my opinion is just as valid as your's. And we may both be wrong.

i don't think they're in a "moat." I think they're close enough to the water that they don't need to be. Plus - I drive by the construction every day. You can see the foundation ... there's no water.



we really need to get to the bottom of this ... wil there or will ther not be street level retail/entertainment. If not ... who knows Rollin Stanley's e-mail address? We've waited / held out for this casino for a long time ... I'd be a crime to have the thing be a debacle ...

markofucity wrote:You can see the foundation ... there's no water.

Not yet anyway.



I am pretty sure the casino portion has to float, just like Harrah's. I also remember the original description of the project in the PD said something about a "concrete bathtub". It would also seem odd and extremely unfair that they made an exception for just this one casino, but I wasn't in St. Louis when the deal was made. I think the law states that the gambling portion of the operation does not have to be directly on the river, but that it has to be within 1000 feet of the river (or something like that) AND has to float. I also vaguely remember a couple of articles in the PD where some people (probably paid by President Casinos) were claiming that the casino would NOT be within the required distance of the river and was thus illegal.



Anyway I don't believe it has to be a moat per se, I think the design is simply that there is water between the base of the structure and the foundation. Last time I looked down on the construction site from a downtown office building, I noticed that the entire casino area (the southeast corner of the site) had a concrete slab poured over it - probably about 15 to 20 feet below grade - and the contractor appeared to be applying a black sealant of some sort. This was a couple of months ago. I can't imagine any other reason for this unless the casino has a very large basement...with, I guess, a lot of groundwater issues...



In any case, if that is indeed the case, I agree that it is monumentally ignorant to not just allow them to build on land - within a certain distance of the river - but this is the Missouri Legislature we are talking about...

I'm pretty sure that this project was granted a variance or slipped through the "moat" requirment somehow --- anywhere. It doesn't matter. Put in some floating street level retail ....

^ My memory is better than I thought.



Isn't there also some goofy requirement that the water in the "bathtub" has to be actual river water, or did I just dream that? If so, that'll smell really nice on a typical St. Louis August day.

jlblues wrote:^ My memory is better than I thought.



Isn't there also some goofy requirement that the water in the "bathtub" has to be actual river water, or did I just dream that? If so, that'll smell really nice on a typical St. Louis August day.

This could be true, I don't know. But couldn't they just pump the water through a filtration system, and then into the moat? A closed moat would need some sort of water purification and chemical system anyway, to prevent bacteria and mosquito larvae.

^Yeah, I was half-joking about the smell. I,m sure they would at least have something to keep the water moving to prevent stagnation and mosquitos. But unless they treat the water like you say (which would be $$$), it is still going to smell.

No problem with the issue of river water odor - there are fantastic filtration and treatment systems in all major urban fountain/pool projects. Check out Hydro-Dramatics and Wet Design (Hydro-Dramatics is local and does most of the great fountains in our area, and Wet Design is an international company that does some unbelievable fountains all over the world - the Bellagio fountain in Vegas is remarkable). That all being said, I don't think this will be a concern for the success of this project.

TheWayoftheArch wrote:On that note, this does bring up an interesting flooding issue, having this access for water to the other side of the flood wall...

Valves...

to answer a lot of these questions... KMOV TV to the rescue last night:



Pinnacle Casio will feature unique design to comply with laws

http://www.kmov.com/localnews/stories/k ... 5d153.html

10:08 PM CDT on Friday, June 23, 2006







(KMOV) - One of St. Louis' biggest construction projects ever is moving forward 16 hours a day. Pinnacle Casino is investing $430 million in its downtown casino-hotel and entertainment complex.



And to comply with Missouri?s casino law, the project features a unique design.



On what a year ago was a vacant lot best known for rams pre-game tailgating, now rises one of St. Louis's biggest private construction projects ever, a promised 5-star hotel in a 19-story tower and a large casino and dining and entertainment complex.



The project's centerpiece is unique. It's a honeycombed concrete barge being constructed to float in a concrete basin constructed around it .



There's just 5-feet of clearance on each side.



That's to comply with Missouri?s evolving casino regulations.



When first opened in 1994, casinos were supposed to cruise. In 1995 casinos were allowed to float in basins beside a river and now pinnacle entertainment is being allowed to be build its casino on Laclede's Landing within a 1,000 feet of the Mississippi river.



Pinnacle expects to add 1,300 jobs and raise $50 million a year in taxes for the city and the state.



Pinnacle plans to open the complex at the end of 2007.





WATCH IT HERE:



http://www.kmov.com/localnews/stories/k ... 5d153.html