So is this why St. Chuck taxpayers don't want Metrolink?
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Wow. Alex you've really been taking some abuse out in the streets lately.
Once while riding a bike down Russell west of Jefferson a group of about ten 12 year old girls came running at me with fists up in the air and yelling something. I was thinking "This is going to be a HILARIOUS story". I passed right through them as they were screaming. They never took a real serious swing at me.
I also thought I was gonna scrap in the food court at the Galleria after some kid who raised himself said some horrible things to my daughter right in front of me. Another possible HILARIOUS story.
I could go on...
I'm sure neither of those things happen much in Stockholm.
Once while riding a bike down Russell west of Jefferson a group of about ten 12 year old girls came running at me with fists up in the air and yelling something. I was thinking "This is going to be a HILARIOUS story". I passed right through them as they were screaming. They never took a real serious swing at me.
I also thought I was gonna scrap in the food court at the Galleria after some kid who raised himself said some horrible things to my daughter right in front of me. Another possible HILARIOUS story.
I could go on...
I'm sure neither of those things happen much in Stockholm.
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Back when we were neighbors I had a couple of similar incidents. I have a shorter temper and chased down and caught a couple of kids twice. Once they got arrested. Then, later on when I saw the kid walking down the alley I stopped him and asked him if he remembered me.Alex Ihnen wrote:Doug - I really get what you're saying. However, the reality is that one or two bad experiences shapes one's expectations. Walking home in FPSE yesterday a half-dozen kids on bicycles where riding past me and literally without any provocation, without me being in their way, and with barely a glance up from my phone, one of them rode towards me and yelled, "WHAT THE f*** YOU LOOKING AT b****?!?! WHAT THE f*** YOU LOOKING AT?!?!" This was one block from my home. This and many other incidents lead me to sometimes feel uncomfortable in situations that present a conflict, such as having ask repeatedly for a group of kids to move so I can simply walk down a sidewalk. I am quickly developing zero tolerance for behavior such as that.
I can't decide if they thought I was too crazy to mess with or they just never got around to it.
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I understand their assumptions. I just find it interesting that they would rather hammer Metrolink (which is providing a service for all) than society's negligence of certain areas of the city. Sometimes Metrolink shows us our true colors...who do we blame? Metrolink. It frustrates me sometimes.Alex Ihnen wrote:^ That's simple. The thought is that if those causing problems can't get to the Loop, then there are no more problems, and the assumption is that they're getting there via MetroLink.
Sorry for derailing (pun intended) the thread, I'll try to get back on topic.
Why isn't there a similar problem in the CWE? The Grove? South Grand? Should Loop restaurant owners put up railing around their outdoor seating? It may cut down on sidewalk space, but the outdoor seating already consumes (another pun) most of the sidewalk space...but it would eliminate the walk-through stealing. And give less space for large groups of people to congregate.
I don't mind teens in the loop (or anywhere) after dark, I do mind large mobs of kids disrupting the area.
Actually, that was a hilarious, although brief, story.leeharveyawesome wrote:Once while riding a bike down Russell west of Jefferson a group of about ten 12 year old girls came running at me with fists up in the air and yelling something. I was thinking "This is going to be a HILARIOUS story". I passed right through them as they were screaming. They never took a real serious swing at me.
I couldn't agree more that the issue here goes WAY beyond Metrolink...Keeping 'those' people 'over there' where they won't 'bother' me (I'm channeling Bennett Brauer, aka Chris Farley) is obviously not the answer for adults who care about their community...It is the answer for self-centered, ego-inflated whiners who might really believe their sht doesn't stink...We do have a responsibility for those people over there, just as they have a responsibility for us over here...
The real problem here isn't even a material one in my view...It's a moral one...That (seriously) and wider sidewalks or fencing around sidewalk diners as someone else has mentioned...
The real problem here isn't even a material one in my view...It's a moral one...That (seriously) and wider sidewalks or fencing around sidewalk diners as someone else has mentioned...
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Exactly. A teenager should be allowed to go to the Loop after dark to shop, see a movie, get a bite to eat, watch a street performer or just people watch -- all without parents. To some degree that should all be encouraged because it might help them become better adults.timeforguinness wrote:
I don't mind teens in the loop (or anywhere) after dark, I do mind large mobs of kids disrupting the area.
However, unruly people of any age or race need to be removed immediately. I think Rainford's premise is basically sound -- don't tolerate the bs behavior (throw them in the paddy wagon or whatever) and they'll soon learn the consequences of acting like that when in the Loop.
^Exactly...And for the rest of us adults, kind words or nods to those teens (probably the majority) who are doing the right thing...IMO the best way to overcome race is to go out of one's way to communicate goodwill...
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We're going to need a lot more coffee cups.doug wrote:We need the Sheriff of Malibu to take action.
My worst experience similar to this was at Atlantic Station in downtown Atlanta. The large clusters of people made it annoying and uncomfortable to walk around. There were groups yelling across the street to each other, saying things like "nigga, fag, *****", etc. Yeah, it was a Saturday night, but that kind of behavior should not be allowed when all the businesses are still open. Needless to say, we didn't stay there long. The vast majority of the crowd were black teens and it seemed like that was just "the spot" for them on Saturday nights. I'm 21 and enjoy walking the street being drunk and loud from time to time, but I didn't feel comfortable at all in that environment. It was borderline out-of-control.
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This happens in every city in this country. A few weeks of increased police presence and the teens will find somewhere else to wreak havoc.
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Alex Ihnen wrote:That's just plain false. You don't know what you're talking about.the central scrutinizer wrote:It would be easy to solve if Metrolink enforced fares. I guarantee 99% of these kids didn't pay the fare. If you can't get on the train without a ticket, you can't get to the Loop.
Carol Crudden, who has owned and operated the Ziezo boutique since 1982, echoed Dawson's lament.
"These kids are disrespectful and rude," Crudden said. "They don't buy anything. They just ruin the experience for people who do come here to shop and support the Loop."
Crudden said MetroLink shared some responsibility for the problem.
"The kids causing these problems are not from University City. They're coming down here on the MetroLink," she said. "I don't know what the solution would be, but I think it has to be acknowledged that MetroLink is shipping these kids to the Loop."
"wider sidewalks or fencing around sidewalk diners as someone else has mentioned..."
are you serious? were you born yesterday? do you rally think "wider sidewalks" would be the solution here? I saw the loop COMPLETELY out of control last summer and I was ready to jump in and defend Joe Edwards as these sassy ass, b****, mis-behaving teens were rude to everyone/thing in site since he was trying to move them along so they wouldn't harrass customers on the patio/sidewalk. The metro should be off limits to minors on weekends after 6:00. sorry, but i don't want the loop to turn into gaslight square... sadly, there really is no good way to combat this and i think the area could really falter until it's no longer desirable for even these teens to go to. look at Union station and St. Louis Centre.. i doubt it will get to that level though.
are you serious? were you born yesterday? do you rally think "wider sidewalks" would be the solution here? I saw the loop COMPLETELY out of control last summer and I was ready to jump in and defend Joe Edwards as these sassy ass, b****, mis-behaving teens were rude to everyone/thing in site since he was trying to move them along so they wouldn't harrass customers on the patio/sidewalk. The metro should be off limits to minors on weekends after 6:00. sorry, but i don't want the loop to turn into gaslight square... sadly, there really is no good way to combat this and i think the area could really falter until it's no longer desirable for even these teens to go to. look at Union station and St. Louis Centre.. i doubt it will get to that level though.
Speaking of St. Louis Centre....
I wasn't around back then but I don't believe African American youths were the reason or even close to why it failed.
I am not an authority but I believe Gaslight Square went into decline because white people abandoned it due to fear.
So we should not do the same in this situation.
I am not against Metrolink curfews except that the graduated driver's license is done to promote road safety. I don't know what rationale could justify the Metrolink curfew. It is quite safe as security and cameras are prevalent. We don't even have any proof transit is the issue here but rather it becomes the easy target because it's associated with poor people. I think blaming transit is stereotyping. It's also un-American to assume someone guilty before they have actually commit an offense.
What if someone was 17 visiting St. Louis to check out Washington University without a parent. He says at the Moonrise as it's near enough to walk. Someone cites him because he's 17 and his flight was delayed or whatever. People tell him it's done to prevent crime. Why would he move to a city which has such high crime it must regulate its transit? Why would we do this without any basis for saying transit is the problem?
Besides people do work different hours so I think quite a few youths would thus find it difficult to get to their job. As unemployment contributes to such problems I think we should do everything to ensure people can get to work.
The Poh-lease simply need to be on the street making sure things do not get out of hand. Close down Metrolink and gate off Delmar then it will become less desirable for everyone who enjoys it. I love it how we had this debate only a few months ago on Washington Avenue.
I wasn't around back then but I don't believe African American youths were the reason or even close to why it failed.
I am not an authority but I believe Gaslight Square went into decline because white people abandoned it due to fear.
So we should not do the same in this situation.
I am not against Metrolink curfews except that the graduated driver's license is done to promote road safety. I don't know what rationale could justify the Metrolink curfew. It is quite safe as security and cameras are prevalent. We don't even have any proof transit is the issue here but rather it becomes the easy target because it's associated with poor people. I think blaming transit is stereotyping. It's also un-American to assume someone guilty before they have actually commit an offense.
What if someone was 17 visiting St. Louis to check out Washington University without a parent. He says at the Moonrise as it's near enough to walk. Someone cites him because he's 17 and his flight was delayed or whatever. People tell him it's done to prevent crime. Why would he move to a city which has such high crime it must regulate its transit? Why would we do this without any basis for saying transit is the problem?
Besides people do work different hours so I think quite a few youths would thus find it difficult to get to their job. As unemployment contributes to such problems I think we should do everything to ensure people can get to work.
The Poh-lease simply need to be on the street making sure things do not get out of hand. Close down Metrolink and gate off Delmar then it will become less desirable for everyone who enjoys it. I love it how we had this debate only a few months ago on Washington Avenue.
This issue is indirectly connected to larger societal issues, but the facts are simple.
1. The Loop is a commercial corridor that requires commerce (the exchange of money) to sustain itself.
2. At the end of the day these are minors. They have limited rights until adulthood. If the greater "village" has to raise our neighbors children.....so be it! Stricter curfews have to be enforced!
3. People don't go to an entertainment district to be reminded that our city has great socioeconomic and racial disparities. However cruel that may sound it is the truth. They will simply go to places that give them that euphoric utopian feeling. Whether that be other areas of the city or an Applebee's in west county. People vote with their feet.
4. As an employee of SLPS I have to say that this city is in need of strong leadership in the black community. I see the ignorance being manifested from an extremely early age and in all honesty it is extremely disturbing.
1. The Loop is a commercial corridor that requires commerce (the exchange of money) to sustain itself.
2. At the end of the day these are minors. They have limited rights until adulthood. If the greater "village" has to raise our neighbors children.....so be it! Stricter curfews have to be enforced!
3. People don't go to an entertainment district to be reminded that our city has great socioeconomic and racial disparities. However cruel that may sound it is the truth. They will simply go to places that give them that euphoric utopian feeling. Whether that be other areas of the city or an Applebee's in west county. People vote with their feet.
4. As an employee of SLPS I have to say that this city is in need of strong leadership in the black community. I see the ignorance being manifested from an extremely early age and in all honesty it is extremely disturbing.
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Maybe Gaslight was abandoned not because of fear but because it started sucking and being a buzzkill and kind of a drag? Maybe they all went to the Loop!
And I swear to Jesus I wish Gaslight was still there.
And I swear to Jesus I wish Gaslight was still there.
The Loop was a few hardware stores, a couple of diners, some movie theatres and a bank that turned into a Chinese restaurant about the time that Gaslight deteriorated. And Gaslight went down the toilet because of a combination of well-publicized crimes and the beginning of urban residential exodus (plus, perhaps, the natural drop-off of that sort of "club" scene -- Lenny Bruce and Barbra Streisand (and, IIRC, Simon & Garfunkel) and the like moved on to larger venues, and the generation that followed them was less folky and/or show-tune and tended not to play clubs.leeharveyawesome wrote:Maybe Gaslight was abandoned not because of fear but because it started sucking and being a buzzkill and kind of a drag? Maybe they all went to the Loop!
And I swear to Jesus I wish Gaslight was still there.
I'm actually glad Gaslight was transformed. First of all, what William has done with Boyle is pretty cool, and although the residential over there is different than many of us would like, it's brought residents back into the area.
But more specifically, if Gaslight were still there, the Grove or Midtown Alley or Wash. Ave. or some current local district (perhaps even Euclid/McPherson) wouldn't be. Too many seats, not enough butts.
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It's fascinating how "scenes" and venues and neighborhoods change over time. If something sticks around long enough it becomes old-fashioned or "lame" to the next generation or if it sticks around a REAL long time it becomes a sort of Disneyland type of thing.
Sometimes I think what most ppl want especially on this forum is for the quality old buildings and old street atmosphere to remain no matter what is happening. That would include me.
The thing about St Louis maybe is that things don't always change and morph into something else. It's just gone.
Sometimes I think what most ppl want especially on this forum is for the quality old buildings and old street atmosphere to remain no matter what is happening. That would include me.
The thing about St Louis maybe is that things don't always change and morph into something else. It's just gone.
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The loop isnt unique in that the same sort of thing has been happening on the plaza in kansas city and the loop/michigan ave in chicago for at least the past two summers. social media has been responsible for some of the batshit crazy quasi riots on the plaza, and i would guess has a hand in a lot of the massive teen "get togethers" everywhere. it's not as if hordes of hormone crazed, poor black teens have suddenly multiplied and spilled out everywhere in the entire city. it's just another reminder of this hot mess that is america, and once again, it's in our face, and we just need to deal with it the best we can.
we need more of a police presence to call out bullsh*t when/as it happens. the police are the closest thing that some of these kids have as "parents," already.
now the real question is if i can now actually order a drink at blueberry hill!
...j/k
we need more of a police presence to call out bullsh*t when/as it happens. the police are the closest thing that some of these kids have as "parents," already.
now the real question is if i can now actually order a drink at blueberry hill!
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Really? Kids get on Facebook and say "Let's go eff with people in the Loop tonight?"warwickland wrote: social media has been responsible for some of the batshit crazy quasi riots on the plaza, and i would guess has a hand in a lot of the massive teen "get togethers" everywhere.
Groups of kids have been gathering since the beginning of time. Sometimes they're in a mood to harass nice people like Alex. Sometimes, multiple of these groups bang in to each other, and some people don't like other people, and there's fights. I have a hard time believing "social media" has much to do with it one way or the other, any more than MetroLink does. But I don't know.
I do know that the Loop just has a weird vibe some times compared to other comparable parts of town - particularly the CWE and South Grand. Can't really figure why, though. It is too bad.
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Count me as one who wants more cops patrolling the Loop on foot.
Most of the kids won't feel so brazen about harrassing people minding their own business anymore
And if they do? The cops can bust em and lock em up till mom or dad comes down to pick them up.
If mom and dad don't want them--turn them over to Doug. I'm sure they will be cool with him since he is so "down"
Most of the kids won't feel so brazen about harrassing people minding their own business anymore
And if they do? The cops can bust em and lock em up till mom or dad comes down to pick them up.
If mom and dad don't want them--turn them over to Doug. I'm sure they will be cool with him since he is so "down"
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I'm about 6'3 230. I'll be in town Easter weekend. Planning on grabbing a few drinks in the loop during my stay. If anyone acts like a stupid little jack*ss to me while I am there I am responding with "Yes, I am looking at you because you are acting like a little irresponsible a**hole" and punching them in the head.
That's how I roll in my city.
That's how I roll in my city.
^^ LOL and I also found Doug's comment a few pages back about just walking through them since they can smell fear or something absolutely hilarious.
Yeah, that's what we need to do. Instead of attempting to have a community raise children in a way that doesn't promote them developing fear sensing sixth senses like pit bulls the rest of the civilized world should just flush itself down the shitter and become the big ape in the group. Great logic Doug.
Nothing like piling onto something that was said four pages ago to retreat the conversation back to that point for a repeat performance. I've been busy the last couple of days. Sorry guys and gals.
Yeah, that's what we need to do. Instead of attempting to have a community raise children in a way that doesn't promote them developing fear sensing sixth senses like pit bulls the rest of the civilized world should just flush itself down the shitter and become the big ape in the group. Great logic Doug.
Nothing like piling onto something that was said four pages ago to retreat the conversation back to that point for a repeat performance. I've been busy the last couple of days. Sorry guys and gals.