"Live and let live" means to to ignore the problem. And I like the Loop. If it becomes a better place to hang out, I will. If not, I won't.tuff-turf wrote:Maybe Live and let live does mean I'm dealing with it. And I am.
Well then why subject yourself to it? You just solved your own problem.
I never said I would mace you. That's ludicrous. I'm being pointed for a reason. You don't seem to have any stance except that we shouldn't be judgmental of mobs that cause problems. What are you trying to say? What is your solution?tuff-turf wrote:You are being unnecessarily mean. I'm not even disagreeing with you about the Loop thing...well not everything. How in the hell do you know who I care about??? Do you have anger issues or something? First you want to mace me now you know me well enough to say I don't care. You are confirming my first line in my post. I would be more afraid of some of you than I would be of a "mob" of kids. Anyhow, I don't feel like arguing with you is productive in anyway. We are all entitled to our opinions...or maybe not...I don't have kids after all.
Of course I don't want the Loop to go downhill. That's a sill question. What would you like to hear from me?
Nice, I just got a little confused talking with you. You were talking about "live and let live" and it seemed you didn't believe that the actual sh*t disturbers should be held accountable. Guess it's easy to miscommunicate. And I wasn't trying to be mean. I just wanted to push your buttons a little to get to the point quicker. Perhaps its not the best way...tuff-turf wrote:My apologies Innov8ion! It was actually you and not Alex who said a curfew would punish the innocent! See we agree!
More than someone who's gone corporate. Canada has racial problems as well they simply try to hide them under the facade of multiculturalism and the idea that they are superior to America on social issues. If people have problems with the fact that I am in Canada then they can tell me that when I get back on Saturday. So why don't you slow down Schwarzkopf. If you want Holyfield it's on.“Is that because of racism, which I know so much about because I’m a white male who lives in Canada?”
If the weather turns good (they're currently forecasting 40's and 50's with rain) the first thing you should do is spend a couple of hours Saturday night hanging out in the Delmar Loop. Now maybe the media exposure will have changed things, but you have no idea what has been going on in U City for the last year.doug wrote:If people have problems with the fact that I am in Canada then they can tell me that when I get back on Saturday.
Beale street puts gates up and makes people go through metal detectors on prime weekends. Do we want that on the Loop?wabash wrote:Bourbon Street and to a lesser extent Beale Street are madness on weekends, with bands of drunken people everywhere. Most are revelers out for a good time, but some are angry, aggressive, belligerent, etc.... I can't speak to Beale as much, but in New Orleans they do a pretty good job of handling things, at least during the primary Wednesday through Saturday evening party times (excluding Mardi Gras of course), by having a constant and ubiquitous police presence. It'd be kind of sad if that's what things come to in the pleasant, side-walk dining, storefront strewn Loop, but if that's what it takes to keep people coming, then that's what they should do.
There may be plenty of parks, libraries, activities etc. but none are attracting the kids. This could be because the general public would like to control every move and decision they make, or that they are treated like criminals upon showing up anywhere. Not everyone there is walking around tearing up the city.innov8ion wrote:I'm not so sure about this. I grew up in small town Iowa w/ virtually nothing to do. We found things to do that didn't involve tearing up the town. Also, there are plenty of parks, libraries, and other activities throughout St. Louis so I don't quite get this stance. Perhaps you could elaborate.TheRemedy wrote:I don't know if I, or anyone has the perfect remedy, I would start by giving the kids a place to go. When I was younger we would get a group of 100+, find an abandoned house or field and have a party and just hang out. We weren't trying to "take over" something, or raise hell, we just wanted to loiter, talk, and relax. Some kids have skate parks, some kids have libraries, some have gyms, sometimes they just need a place to meet without being hassled. Communication is a huge part in creating something that works, that's where I would start.Alex Ihnen wrote:^ So what's "the remedy"? It seems that some see the behavior discussed here as no big deal - perhaps people should just deal with it. If you don't like it, then don't go to the Loop?
The problem is that kids are swarming through the Loop like locusts and the cops don't seem to be doing much about the poor behavior. No matter the color distribution in a mob, mobs are unpredictable and typically volatile. Also, cops pepper spraying the kids to get them to disperse probably wouldn't be good PR.
How many citations are the cops giving to the unruly kids out there? Not enough, it seems. If the cops crack down on the shenanigans seriously, I guarantee you the sh*t will stop. The curfew will only exacerbate the problem as it punishes the innocent. It's time to start the tough love and stop the counterproductive curfew....
Would love to see a UCity cop do an IAMA on this topic.
A fellow redditor?innov8ion wrote:Would love to see a UCity cop do an IAMA on this topic.
There is zero communication with the kids on this issue. I don't like to jump to conclusions and start labeling all kids there a problem because they crowd the sidewalk.downtown2007 wrote:It my understanding Wash Ave already has a curfew as a result from the issues last summer. The reason we have to control their moves is because they can't behave. If we didn't the Loop, Wash Ave, and the Galleria wouldn't exist. It boggles my mind some people stick up for the kids on this issue.
Doug: Check your PMs. But while I’m not looking for you to “go Holyfield”, all I could think of from that quoted line was this…doug wrote: So why don't you slow down Schwarzkopf. If you want Holyfield it's on.
wabash wrote:... (I)n New Orleans they do a pretty good job of handling things, at least during the primary Wednesday through Saturday evening party times (excluding Mardi Gras of course), by having a constant and ubiquitous police presence.
Beale Street may be the model for it. I’ve never seen the metal detectors (and don’t think they’re called for on Delmar), but I’ve seen great crowd control with a formidable police presence on either side of the main strip, with road blocks and the occasional mounted unit. Inside the blocked-off areas, people are free to roam the street, and it’s allowed to be a fun atmosphere. I’ll add in that I’ve never seen Beale with a bunch of high school kids walking around; does anyone know if Beale has a 21+ rule going on?dweebe wrote:Beale street puts gates up and makes people go through metal detectors on prime weekends. Do we want that on the Loop?
