urbanSTL

Everyone gets respect with no prejudice from me. Except Norwegians. Hate em.

^You're telling me. I live in Minnesota. They are a plague.

I feel for you. A total scourge. My advice is to keep frequenting your favorite haunts....

doug wrote:^Dude, come on. I take my four foot two Asian girlfriend to rougher streets all the time.

Wait, literally? She's 50 inches tall?

STL88 wrote:Fellow student Alex Tolkin, 20, from Newton, Mass., agreed.
"I feel like St. Louis Police," he said, "have more pressing issues."


Who cares about this p****'s feelings? Rowdy teens, who last week injured a STL city police officer, are a pressing issue, you dumb twit. This coming from a Wash U student, students that have been mugged and assaulted by the same types of people causing problems in the Loop.

This statement makes you sound pretty juvenile. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Just like you said, there are muggings and assaults around Washington University, maybe they should focus on that and not for the most part, kids crowding the sidewalks. One could say if the police weren't being rough with the kids, which I saw, the officer may not have been assaulted. Just my opinion, but I suppose I'm a twit since I can see more than one side to the story.

@ TheRemedy...I couldn't have said it better myself! I feel like one can be beaten down on this thread for not agreeing 100% with a certain few.

Rule #1 - grow thick skin. People here may disagree with you - but (at least in my opinion) your views are generally respected (if well thought out) and are wanted. One reason we all joined this board was that we are opinionated.

As was mentioned earlier - at similar thing happened here in KC... on the plaza - a much more upscale shopping area. Several hundred inner-city teens "flash mobbed" it last spring - numerous fights, numerous assaults/ robberies. As can be expected - local news were all over it. Just like in STL - the Kansas City Star comments were rife with "the Plaza is dead" comments.

The situations are different - different clientele (socio-economically), the Plaza is owned by one firm etc... but an increased police presence forced a lack-of-news over the next few weeks... no talk anymore about the plaza being dead. I don't know exactly what was done - but city officials talked about midnight basketball and other activities among other things. The local movie theater changed its policies concerning unaccompanied kids on weekends.

The short term solution doesn't concern racially biased economic hardships and perceived moral depravity. First and foremost - do what is needed to allow people who spend money in the loop to do so ... generally requiring (among other things) a sense of security. That should be tackled (IMO) by local (Loop) leaders/business people, politicians and talking heads...

RobbyD wrote:^I'm really not sure who would disagree with your statements...That sounds about right to me...

Re insults...Those posts kinda speak for themselves? I assume that pretty strong insults thrown at total strangers means the poster isn't really taking the issue seriously...Fine...

Are you referring to me? I take this issue very seriously. I frequent the Loop, and I have a 3 year old son, so I have a bit more critical view of crime and issues in this city than most other 22 year olds, who likely care more about a party atmosphere than a family one. I'm not saying the Loop is family oriented, it's really not, but like others here I would like to be able to take my son with me to different places without people threatening me and my family. This is about the greater good. I'm sorry if a few of you were offended by my choice of words. Most of my aggression in that post was more or less directed at the media, who tend to go out of their way to interview people with views of issues that are out of whack, just as we saw with the Dutchtown article after the Boles incident. I will try to refrain from insulting anyone, but the indifference shown by so many is almost as destructive as the actual behavior and crimes.

What do we do about this kind of loitering?

PETA activist in the Loop
Rotate monitor for full effect

Just go to Fitz's and grab a burger!

moorlander wrote:What do we do about this kind of loitering?

PETA activist in the Loop
Rotate monitor for full effect

That type of loitering is perfectly acceptable, as long as she's attractive.

The Loop was over-run with Zombies tonight, but aside from one accidentally broken shop window, I think they were quite well behaved.

University City 3 weeks ago introduced bill number 9112, better known as the "Obstructing or interfering with use of the sidewalks and streets." The new law if passed, will make it unlawful for anyone to "block" public sidewalks located anywhere in University City, Missouri. Those arrested and charged with the crime of "standing on the sidewalk," can be fined up to $1,000 per offense. The University City Police Chief Charles Adams has gone on record with the St. Louis Post-Dispatch that, "no warnings will be issued."

Supporters of the ordinance, especially shop owners in the Loop business district, say the ordinance will curb loitering and youth gatherings. However, since the ordinance provides absolutely no enforcement guidelines, opponents are sure it will be unfairly used against black pedestrians specifically targeting black youth.

Many believe University City already has a list of ordinances to protect the businesses from loitering, larceny, noise, assault and aggravation of their customers. The fact remains, police already have enough power to arrest, ticket and charge the suspects who injured St. Louis City police officer on April 9 but they didn't. Bill 9112 was crafted to signal Loop business owners that University City Council is listening; unfortunately, it does nothing to solve the problems which include needing additional police and their better understanding of how to work with overcrowded sidewalks. Cities like New Orleans, Chicago, Miami, and NYC all deal with overcrowded sidewalks without using "no standing on sidewalks" laws. Those city police are trained to deal with the problems before the crowds become threatening, again using "Failure to comply," and "Peace disturbance" laws.

Dozens of University City residents, business owners, teachers, artists, parents, and civil libertarians have started an online petition to demand real solutions for the Loop without passing new ambiguous laws. I hope you can add your name to it.

http://www.change.org/petitions/tell-un ... -sidewalks

@ Mark. It does seem like it cooled off completely. Of course I don't know whats going on behind the scenes but people don't seem to be complaining anymore.

The zombies hit a couple of weeks ago (on a Friday). I guess it was some college kids having fun. Other than that, I still haven't seen the "crowds of unruly kids" people have complained about...maybe the police presence has scared them away.

As mentioned before in this thread, the Country Club Plaza in Kansas City, has had similar issues as the Loop with "urban youth" loitering and causing trouble over the past year or so.

"... three teens were shot late Saturday night as large crowds of teens congregated on the Country Club Plaza."

Not exactly a gang war – 5 or 6 shots total – but the mayor was nearby when the shootings occurred and had to duck for cover. Now, attempting to prevent another incident, a 9 p.m. curfew could be instituted as early as this weekend (citing success against similar incidents in Philly's City Center) as a method of combating these issues.

The Loop doesn’t want to be Frontenac Plaza, but its business owners certainly don’t want hundreds of 10-12 year olds (of any economic background) just hanging there, and the business owners certainly don’t want drive by shootings.

I was wondering if that big police presence seen the weekend after the significant disturbance early this summer has continued? Is there a curfew, and if so is that being enforced? Is the loop still "weird" (as in "keep Austin weird") or has it lost its 'eclectic nature'? Anyone who has been there lately have any thoughts on developments this summer?

On the KC events
http://www.kansascity.com/2011/08/15/30 ... urfew.html
http://www.kansascity.com/2011/08/14/30 ... l-for.html

Here is a page on the U.City Patch that has many articles about the kids in the Loop. Not sure if it answers your question but I thought you might be interested.

http://universitycity.patch.com/search? ... n+the+loop

Been to the Loop several times this summer, haven't really noticed a problem.

I also really like the idea of a teen center that came up at the U-City Youth forum. A safe place for kids to go to just to chill, hang out, get some sodas, and be treated like adults. Set up some couches and video games in one room, a soda bar/restaurant in another, and a dance floor in the next. Charge 7 bucks a night and you could have a pretty successful business.