urbanSTL

^This is really funny (and sad). Was it one of the Aguas brothers that you took around? Every time I go into a La Bamba, I ask one of the family members (which is just about everyone that works there) when they are opening in St. Louis. I have been asking for the last five years now and I always get the same response, "we have been looking for awhile now and haven't been able to find the right location", with a sigh that suggests that they get asked that question alot, or perhaps that they are tired of dealing with the extra crap that is unique to St. Louis real estate. They never elaborate.



The Loop seems to be a perfect location, so I am not sure what the problem could be. Maybe the rent around the Loop is too steep? I have heard several commercial brokers complain about how much landlords are asking for retail space there.



Or...maybe it is closed-minded landlords/alderpersons/neighborhood associations? They probably think the place would be overrun with illegal aliens or something, after all who else eats authentic (somewhat) Mexican food made by authentic (definitely) Mexicans, right?



Somebody needs to help them develop their own building here I think. Dweebe, if you know Joe Edwards maybe you should get the two parties together, he might be able to make something happen...

Dweebe wrote:Plus it's a whole lot easier when you're drunk to get back to the hotel when there's a line of taxi cabs waiting right outside all the popular bars.

I hear ya...cheap too, especially if you are with a group.

The guys that grill on Wash Ave on weekends usually make a killing.

Two words: Uncle Bills.

trent wrote:The guys that grill on Wash Ave on weekends usually make a killing.

Same with the guys in Sauget. Or so I've heard, at least.

Takes me back to the days on Welch Avenue in campus town at Iowa State University. Man, I loved the gyro stand just outside of Cy's Roost! (Bonus points if anyone has been there.)

trent wrote:The guys that grill on Wash Ave on weekends usually make a killing.

jlblues wrote:^This is really funny (and sad). Was it one of the Aguas brothers that you took around? Every time I go into a La Bamba, I ask one of the family members (which is just about everyone that works there) when they are opening in St. Louis. I have been asking for the last five years now and I always get the same response, "we have been looking for awhile now and haven't been able to find the right location", with a sigh that suggests that they get asked that question alot, or perhaps that they are tired of dealing with the extra crap that is unique to St. Louis real estate. They never elaborate.



The Loop seems to be a perfect location, so I am not sure what the problem could be. Maybe the rent around the Loop is too steep? I have heard several commercial brokers complain about how much landlords are asking for retail space there.



Or...maybe it is closed-minded landlords/alderpersons/neighborhood associations? They probably think the place would be overrun with illegal aliens or something, after all who else eats authentic (somewhat) Mexican food made by authentic (definitely) Mexicans, right?



Somebody needs to help them develop their own building here I think. Dweebe, if you know Joe Edwards maybe you should get the two parties together, he might be able to make something happen...

Dweebe wrote:Plus it's a whole lot easier when you're drunk to get back to the hotel when there's a line of taxi cabs waiting right outside all the popular bars.

I hear ya...cheap too, especially if you are with a group.

No, it was not a member of the family. I can't remember his name or find the emails. I think the problem was there was no one "hot" area where there was plenty of foot traffic that set him on fire. He kept mentioning the Broad Ripple area in Indianapolis as an example of a big city LaBamba.



I did find this in the Yahoo LaBamba group posted by one of their higher ups.

--- In La_Bamba@yahoogroups.com, "Fran Smith" <labambaburritos>

wrote:

>

> La Bamba IS going to franchise!!

>

> The current corporate owned La Bamba's will remain.. and we will

> still ad a few a year, just as we have been doing... but it looks

> like June-ish we will be 100% ready... so anyone wil designs on

> owning a La Bamba... contact me and we can get started and maybe

you

> can be the first!

Maybe someone with contacts should forward this info.



Like I mentioned in another thread the Qdoba in U. City is now open until midnight. They should just bite the bullet and stay open until 2am and see what happens. When I was in Chicago a few weeks ago there was a Qdoba on Lincoln north of DePaul that was open until 4 am on weekends.



I know I'm showing my age but does anyone remember Boomers on the Landing? Their kitchen used to be open until close. Since the front part was always too busy I would always go to the back bar and order from there. I also remember the diner that used to be across from where the Roberts Orpheum is and the OT Hodge at Union Station being open 24 hours.

^Thanks for the info! Every time I have asked they said they would NEVER franchise. Anybody want to go in on a franchise with me?

dweebe wrote:I think the problem was there was no one "hot" area where there was plenty of foot traffic that set him on fire. He kept mentioning the Broad Ripple area in Indianapolis as an example of a big city LaBamba.

Yep, this is what I have been b*tching about incessantly. This city needs to concentrate on developing areas where there is "plenty of foot traffic", rather than constantly moving on to the next new "entertainment district". As successful as Washington Avenue is, there is still very little foot traffic, except in maybe a two-hour window on Friday and Saturday nights, and I haven't seen much improvement lately, everything is still just too spread out. It is sad that the area with the greatest density and the most foot traffic in the St. Louis metro (The Loop) is really not even in the city. What do you think that says about St. Louis to national retailers? I wish I could believe that the city understands that this is a problem.

I also remember the diner that used to be across from where the Roberts Orpheum is

That would be Jimmy's. When I first moved downtown, circa 1991, the Telco was reluctant (i.e., incredulous) to put a residential line into "an abandoned warehouse." I carried a pager so the office could reach me -- and I used the pay phone at Jimmy's to return calls.



Great patty melts.



It was not 24/7. It closed for half a day on Sunday to "clean the grease trap." Really.

Jeff wrote:edit-oh yeah, and jblues, be patient! If the visionaries have there way DT and it starts living up to its potential, then we'll have the Landing, Loft district, Bottle District, CBD, BPV, Chouteau's landing, Soulard, and Lafayette Square all integrated into one huge urban paradise. Really, it's all there now, we just need to fill in the gaps and connect the dots!

Even when my wildest fantasies for downtown and surrounding areas are fulfilled, there will still be large, desolate gaps between the areas you mentioned, e.g. the Dome/convention center, Busch, Scottrade center, highways, garages, government buildings, office buildings, and so on, just as there are in any city, no matter how dense and urban. There are large sections of midtown Manhattan where there are far more residents per square whatever than there ever will be, anywhere in Saint Louis, yet many of those areas still pretty much roll up the sidewalks at night. The entire downtown and surrounding areas here cannot be 24/7, or even 18/4, for that matter, nor should they be.



So, again my question is, what area will provide the "plenty of foot traffic" that so many of those pesky national retailers want to see? BPV isn't going to achieve this by itself, TBD isn't, the casino isn't, Chouteau's Pond might, but probably at the expense of the north side of downtown. There still seems to be the mentality here that traffic from these large, self-contained developments will lift all boats. That didn't work with St. Louis Centre or Union Station and it won't work with any of these latest developments.



The Loft District had so much potential to be that kind of environment, since it is all connected along the central spine of Wash Ave., with the ability to create a relatively compact, dense, congruous streetscape, and (once the bridge-from-hell is removed) line-of-sight to all destinations. It could grow organically, westward, and eventually southward (it cannot grow north, at least east of Tucker, because that area is dedicated to the future convention center expansion - and another dead zone). However, I am afraid that this potential is being squandered with a mish-mash of inconsistent retail space, all open at different hours, and that it will be further eroded by the many and various new shopping, entertainment, and dining districts/destinations.



So, is there a plan? Or are we just going with the shotgun effect - i.e., whomever wants to build whatever, wherever, can, with no direction as to where the entertainment, financial, government, home furnishings, shopping, gallery, etc., districts should be?



To try to present this quandry succinctly, imagine that you are a national retailer looking to open your one and only location in the city of St. Louis, right now. Where would you put it? So many areas with potential, but no one area with the mix of visibility, traffic, and demographics that you need to make your numbers work. Moreover, how would you even begin to predict which of these many areas might provide the mix you need 5 years from now? Or, say you are Noodles & Co. and you are interested in a restaurant on Laclede's Landing, but you wonder, well, what might the Landing look like 5 or 10 years from now? Will it be residential, will it look like Division Street, or the French Quarter, or The Strip, or something else? Until the city can answer those kinds of questions, we will continue to see a few local retailers, a few national niche players, and a lot of dark storefronts in between.

Jeff707 wrote:

but even topless dancing is prohibited in Missouri

No. There are plenty of topless places in Missouri, sans pasties.

But I thought they couldn't serve beer or liquor? If there was full nudity the place had to be juice/soda only? Aren't the places along I44 down by Ft. Leonard Wood that way?



Not playing dumb: I just don't know. My only experience is the Sauget Ballet.

publiceye wrote:

I also remember the diner that used to be across from where the Roberts Orpheum is

That would be Jimmy's. When I first moved downtown, circa 1991, the Telco was reluctant (i.e., incredulous) to put a residential line into "an abandoned warehouse." I carried a pager so the office could reach me -- and I used the pay phone at Jimmy's to return calls.



Great patty melts.



It was not 24/7. It closed for half a day on Sunday to "clean the grease trap." Really.

All that mattered to me was they were open at 3am on a Saturday night/Sunday morning. Plus it never got that crowded because people thought it was too rough. It was my favorite place after a night at "1227". (When it was the only nightclub on Washington Ave. and everyone considered you a freak for going there.)



Though I stopped going to Jimmys when one night a couple of drunk rednecks came in and started throwing the N bomb around after being in the door for less than a minute. Things escalated to fight and I tore out when one of the rednecks was going to the truck for his "noisemaker".

Missouri Bar and Grill(e) is still open isn't it? I haven't been there in a year or so, but they are (were) open til 3 AM. They make a great reuben. Don't remember if it was on the menu, but they served breakfast too, maybe you just have to ask nicely.

I agree two casinos will be the only way for casino patrons to walk the landing. A Pinnacle-only scenario will not add appreciably to what is the current set up with The President. Thats not the real worry, however. BPV will impact The Landing in a huge way. Baseball provides 81 days of super-charged volume for Landing merchants. BPV will be the new baseball destination and will force a change in entertainment concepts on The Landing. In fact, the first wave of change is already taking place. Newly opened establishments like Drunken Fish/Xes and Feisty Bulldog/Throttle are changing the paradigm of Landing Nightlife. Where Wash Ave has become a kinder/gentler entertainment destination, The Landing is organically moving into an "adult high energy" type mix. In a mix like this, high end sushi lounges can co-exist with dance clubs and....GASP....high end adult entertainment. The target demo is 25-45. The next step will be to extend closing hours in the landing zone. 5 am should do the trick. Convention and tourism will all benefit. The main thing is that the new boat should not be allowed to extend license hours unless the rest of The Landing is included...

If Landing establishments would stay open until 5am, then hardcore night-owls could catch MetroLink for their return trip home.

open till 5 am huh...? then the landing would really be it's own worst enemy for sure...

Only creeps and losers stay out till 5am.

bpe235 wrote:open till 5 am huh...? then the landing would really be it's own worst enemy for sure...

Not sure why extending closing would add to current problems. The demos will continue to change from the 18-25 crowd currently patronizing the area to a 25-45 demo. Keep in mind that this development is very vegas like. Super high end finishes and high dollar hotel rooms. No other gambling facility in this market will come close. STL is likely to be the #3 or #4 gambling destination in the country when The Landing and Lemay sites come on line. With proper marketing, the influx of "circuit gamblers" will be huge compared to what is happening now. Being able to serve 23 out of 24 hours daily is part of the equation to reach full potential. It also would ensure that alot of revenue currently crossing the PSB would stay in the city. More security and police presence in the area is a given (you watch). The days of the Landing being one large frat party are coming to a close.

How about 3am? Would that eliminate creeps or losers? - just thinking that if we could get rid of one, that the other may be tolerable.

Downtown2007 wrote:Only creeps and losers stay out till 5am.

I believe the casino is only interested in the latter.

I <3 staying out until 5 am. But my body doesn't react/recover the same way it used to. And I'm only 28.



I really can't stay up that late unless there's some sort of woman involved.