They had an old school bubble hockey game, man those were fun U.S. versus the U.S.S.R
bpe235 wrote:dweebe wrote:
BTW: I was in "Fat Tuesday" last weekend ( my girlfriend likes their foo-foo drinks) and they had taken out all the video games in the back area. That's never a good sign.
Sounds like an improvement to me...who actualy plays videogames(other than golden too) at a bar anyway...what are we 8 yrs old?
OT: Golden Tee rocks! Besides Maggie OBrien's and Jack Patricks, are there any other places downtown with a Golden Tee Live 2006/2007 machine?
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dweebe wrote:
Hopefully someone will do something with empty spaces where "Rum Jungle" and "Planet Hollywood" used to be.
I believe the owners of the building that Rum Jungle was in are still involved in a lawsuit against the owners of Rum Jungle - not sure if there will be anything going on there until that is settled.
dweebe wrote:
For the first time in a long while there are positive signs on the Landing. From small things like "Sundeckers" renovating their bathrooms (thank God) and Morgan Street expanding, to the hundreds of millions being spent on the Pinnacle Casino.
The owners of the building Sundecker is in are suing the city. The building was taken from them via eminent domain and sold to Pinnacle. Then Pinnacle turned around and gave Sundeckers a new 10 year lease...
buckethead wrote:dweebe wrote:
Hopefully someone will do something with empty spaces where "Rum Jungle" and "Planet Hollywood" used to be.
I believe the owners of the building that Rum Jungle was in are still involved in a lawsuit against the owners of Rum Jungle - not sure if there will be anything going on there until that is settled.
A lot of drama for a place that wasn't open that long. How long was that place Rum Jungle? Wasn't it only about 6 to 9 months?
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DeBaliviere wrote:I'm skeptical about the incremental business that the Landing's restaurants/bars/shops will receive as a result of the construction of the casino, but I do think that good things could be in store for the Landing, especially if more housing is added beyond the two projects that we already know about.
There is an awful lot of vacant land on the Landing and lots of potential for new development:
Cool! Looks like they've already rebuilt the back wall of the Switzer's Building. And even re-boarded up the windows.
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dweebe wrote:[But do you think people will want to live down there with a casino going 24/7 and all the bars and their 3am closing times?
I think one of the reasons that Washington Ave. is a couple of years behind the expected growth curve was the time it took to get rid of the "rowdy" 3am bars. It wasn't until places like Lo, Tangerine, Galaxy and Europe were shut down that things really got rolling down here.
If there is any residential growth on the Landing, it will be a very niche crowd. They'll have to go in knowing the bars close at 3am and that's they way it will be. Kind of like residents of the French Quarter in New Orleans or Wrigleyville in Chicago.
I don't think that the growth on Washington Avenue can be directly correlated to the closing of a few nightclubs. Most of the development that has taken place recently was planned in spite of the presence of nightclubs.
However, I do think that if the Landing is able to spur more housing development then we'll see the area shift from being a party spot to a more traditional neighborhood.
I think the pic above illustrates the major flaw in the city's thinking about the landing. Look how much vacant land their is. And they turned most of it over to one casion. Rather than spreding the love, getting two casinos working together to develope their portions and creating an entertainment district, they give all the land to one organization and ensure that what will develop is nothing more than businesses designed to flow into the casino.
There is plenty of room had the city been smart. Thrown up a parking garage on the major vacant lot at the southwestern corner of the landing and then evenly spit the vacant land to the north and along the river between two casinos, creating and L shape of development around the existing landing. I guess i makes too much sense.
Besides, I really belive the landing is not the place for a residential district. It can't be everything. Let the residential develope north of the new casino in the warehouses around the old power plant and leave the rest as offices and an entertainment meca. No direction. No plan. No idea of how to make the area function as a whole.
Imagine if the city hadn't been forcing Isle of Capri out of the city... maybe their HQ would be adjacent to a new downtown casino rather than in Creve Cour.
Foolish...
There is plenty of room had the city been smart. Thrown up a parking garage on the major vacant lot at the southwestern corner of the landing and then evenly spit the vacant land to the north and along the river between two casinos, creating and L shape of development around the existing landing. I guess i makes too much sense.
Besides, I really belive the landing is not the place for a residential district. It can't be everything. Let the residential develope north of the new casino in the warehouses around the old power plant and leave the rest as offices and an entertainment meca. No direction. No plan. No idea of how to make the area function as a whole.
Imagine if the city hadn't been forcing Isle of Capri out of the city... maybe their HQ would be adjacent to a new downtown casino rather than in Creve Cour.
Foolish...
DeBaliviere wrote:dweebe wrote:[But do you think people will want to live down there with a casino going 24/7 and all the bars and their 3am closing times?
I think one of the reasons that Washington Ave. is a couple of years behind the expected growth curve was the time it took to get rid of the "rowdy" 3am bars. It wasn't until places like Lo, Tangerine, Galaxy and Europe were shut down that things really got rolling down here.
If there is any residential growth on the Landing, it will be a very niche crowd. They'll have to go in knowing the bars close at 3am and that's they way it will be. Kind of like residents of the French Quarter in New Orleans or Wrigleyville in Chicago.
I don't think that the growth on Washington Avenue can be directly correlated to the closing of a few nightclubs. Most of the development that has taken place recently was planned in spite of the presence of nightclubs.
However, I do think that if the Landing is able to spur more housing development then we'll see the area shift from being a party spot to a more traditional neighborhood.
So where will the 3am rowdies go? It's apparent that late closing dance club type places (like Club Buca, Morgan Street and Study Hall) and residential don't mix. Lotus was never able to get a 3am license (they didn't last long) and I've heard Kyo is getting resistance in going to 3am.
As much as I'm not a fan of the crazy, rowdy dance clubs I think the city needs them. Both for the young crowd (21-25) that likes that sort of stuff and the tourists who want to cut loose the one time a year.
While I'm all for more residential growth in the city as much as possible, I'm just wondering if the city wouldn't be a little better off leaving the Landing as its own little party place?
I dunno, I'm really torn about this.
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dweebe wrote:buckethead wrote:dweebe wrote:
Hopefully someone will do something with empty spaces where "Rum Jungle" and "Planet Hollywood" used to be.
I believe the owners of the building that Rum Jungle was in are still involved in a lawsuit against the owners of Rum Jungle - not sure if there will be anything going on there until that is settled.
A lot of drama for a place that wasn't open that long. How long was that place Rum Jungle? Wasn't it only about 6 to 9 months?
You're right, it wasn't even the Rum Jungle that long. I don't know how long exactly, but in the short amount of time they managed to do a lot of major damage to the building - hence the lawsuit.
dweebe wrote:
But do you think people will want to live down there with a casino going 24/7 and all the bars and their 3am closing times?
I think one of the reasons that Washington Ave. is a couple of years behind the expected growth curve was the time it took to get rid of the "rowdy" 3am bars. It wasn't until places like Lo, Tangerine, Galaxy and Europe were shut down that things really got rolling down here.
If there is any residential growth on the Landing, it will be a very niche crowd. They'll have to go in knowing the bars close at 3am and that's they way it will be. Kind of like residents of the French Quarter in New Orleans or Wrigleyville in Chicago.
Yeah, and nobody wants to live in Wrigleyville or the French Quarter, right?
I think you answered your own question, the people who live there will want to live close to bars, clubs, dancing, restaurants, fun, etc.
Hopefully the elderly won't try moving in and shutting all the bars, clubs, dancing, restaurants, fun, etc. down early.
Agreed. They should be careful to not bite the hand that feeds them. The Landing has a niche as a party place for the young crowd. If folks are looking for something less boisterous, they can go to Washington Ave or other locales. What are they going to do, kick out all the clubs from downtown??? A lively club district belongs in any modern downtown.
dweebe wrote:
As much as I'm not a fan of the crazy, rowdy dance clubs I think the city needs them. Both for the young crowd (21-25) that likes that sort of stuff and the tourists who want to cut loose the one time a year.
While I'm all for more residential growth in the city as much as possible, I'm just wondering if the city wouldn't be a little better off leaving the Landing as its own little party place?
I dunno, I'm really torn about this.
SoulardD wrote:dweebe wrote:
But do you think people will want to live down there with a casino going 24/7 and all the bars and their 3am closing times?
I think one of the reasons that Washington Ave. is a couple of years behind the expected growth curve was the time it took to get rid of the "rowdy" 3am bars. It wasn't until places like Lo, Tangerine, Galaxy and Europe were shut down that things really got rolling down here.
If there is any residential growth on the Landing, it will be a very niche crowd. They'll have to go in knowing the bars close at 3am and that's they way it will be. Kind of like residents of the French Quarter in New Orleans or Wrigleyville in Chicago.
Yeah, and nobody wants to live in Wrigleyville or the French Quarter, right?
I think you answered your own question, the people who live there will want to live close to bars, clubs, dancing, restaurants, fun, etc.
Hopefully the elderly won't try moving in and shutting all the bars, clubs, dancing, restaurants, fun, etc. down early.
Exactly. If there's new construction on the Landing for condos that cost $300,000 to $500,000 or rent for $1600/month it will be taken up by a bunch of empty nesters who will fight every liquor license request and renewal. Like I said, look at how Lotus never got their 3am license and died quickly.
We shouldn't turn the Landing into the Marine Villa neighborhood where there's X number of liquor licenses and the important people will not allow any more.
Lotus couldn't get a 3 am and died because it sucked, not because of resistance from the nabe. Look at Lucas Park Grille. That place is full until 3 am every weekend. At 3 am, Wash Ave is still very much a busy place despite the loss of the clubs.
The Landing can survive with residential, and expensive residential if the market demands it. The Landing definitely needs some expansion, as is doesn't really work for most people, as it only seems to attract the younger crowd. Or a Z107.7 type crowd at that. They need more to offer.
And I also wouldn't underestimate the casual gambler when it comes to driving in and parking. I think a lot of people end up at the casino. You make it part of the destination, as opposed to the destination itself. Work on building up the restaurants and bars there, then the casino becomes a place people can filter to beyond those places.
The Landing can survive with residential, and expensive residential if the market demands it. The Landing definitely needs some expansion, as is doesn't really work for most people, as it only seems to attract the younger crowd. Or a Z107.7 type crowd at that. They need more to offer.
And I also wouldn't underestimate the casual gambler when it comes to driving in and parking. I think a lot of people end up at the casino. You make it part of the destination, as opposed to the destination itself. Work on building up the restaurants and bars there, then the casino becomes a place people can filter to beyond those places.
Lotus was granted a 3 AM by the city , however they never were able to attain it because they didn't do certain amount in sales before the owner of the building denied extending there lease.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: They need to figure out a way to keep the Admiral as a casino. Gamblers are a fickle lot. If they feel they've got "bad luck" at one casino, they will quickly get out and walk to another one, if there's one nearby. That's the way it works in places like Reno, where several casinos are grouped within walking distance.
But if the Landing has only one huge casino, it will simply act like a huge black hole, sucking in all the life from its surroundings, never to be seen again.
But if the Landing has only one huge casino, it will simply act like a huge black hole, sucking in all the life from its surroundings, never to be seen again.
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There was an article in yesterday's P-D about Feisty Bulldog/Throttle. I'm posting this here since it provides some interesting insights on where the Landing may be heading in the future.
Article
Doug Hall, promoter for Feisty Bulldog-Throttle and Rue 13 says, "There's so much big money down there.
But a key factor with the Landing is it's not the same Landing it was five, 10, 15 years ago. It was a mecca for people to come and see live music, then it became an area for college students to get into fistfights. Now our mission is to resurface it as a new area to hang out. It's like it's in its infancy again, and it's a fresh start."
Q: How did Live on the Levee and Fair St. Louis affect business?
Hall: Live on the Levee detracted from the natural progression on the Landing. People thought they couldn't get down here. But there are ways to get down here that people don't even think about.
Gray: July 4 was a disaster. No one came to the riverfront. Fair St. Louis was just a concert and fireworks. It wasn't an event. People watched that and left. There wasn't any coming to the Landing and walking around. It was just the first Live on the Levee, when it should've been Fair St. Louis.
Article
Nice quote. At least somebody is speaking out about their killing Fair St. Louis this year.
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The Landing used to be great during the fair - I would go there instead when they had the Miller Music Blast. The streets were closed off and it was a great time - a nice auxilliary, non-family event.
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Why not move Eats Bridge tents to the streets or lots of the Landing? I'm sure Landing businesses and Illinois commuters would approve.
Were I the Landing, I'd be figuring out how to take advantage of the impending arrival of the casino hordes. (And they probably are.)
A thread over at insidestl.com about Memphis and Beale street got me thinking.
Wouldn't it be interesting (and cool) if Pat O'Briens http://www.patobriens.com/ or Flying Saucers http://www.beerknurd.com/ were to put a location either at the Ballpark Village or the Landing?
Wouldn't it be interesting (and cool) if Pat O'Briens http://www.patobriens.com/ or Flying Saucers http://www.beerknurd.com/ were to put a location either at the Ballpark Village or the Landing?
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^I think the old Planet Hollywood space would make a nice Pat O'Brien's. Not only is the space on the Landing, but it's one of the closest Landing spots to Downtown's offices and convention center with added visibility from I-70.
southslider wrote:^I think the old Planet Hollywood space would make a nice Pat O'Brien's. Not only is the space on the Landing, but it's one of the closest Landing spots to Downtown's offices and convention center with added visibility from I-70.
I think the "Planet Hollywood" space would be a better location for "Flying Saucer". The Memphis "Pat OBrien's" (and I think the San Antonio) are free standing scaled-down versions of the original New Orleans location.
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^Great! Then we could have annoying tourists walking around with those stupid hurricanes, just like New Orleans! Maybe we could even get a Margaritaville!