urbanSTL

framer wrote:My guess is that the younger Kopler will push for something at least at tall as the Park Plaza. Let's hope they can pull it off.

For Comparison
Chase is - 27 stories @ 310 ft.
Park East Tower - 26 stories @ 320 ft
Roberts Tower - 25 stories @ 312 ft
Plaza in Clayton - 30 stories @ 409ft

wabash wrote:If Roddy/Park Central is blocking or dragging their feet on anything 15+, I'd find that extremely frustrating.

Since they are the ones and signed off on (and, if we're being honest, basically drove) the code allowing unlimited height here (page 56), I think it's unlikely. They may push back on tax abatement, but I think even that is unlikely since it is currently a vacant lot and would not require demolition of any historic/architecturally significant building with reuse possibility.

^Good points. I was referencing the blocking of a project 15+ stories in hopes of something taller. i.e. Park Central not liking a 16 story proposal because they'd prefer something 25+. But it sounds like it hasn't gotten anywhere near that point yet.

Good point about there not being a historic building there for them to leverage (as was the case with the Optimist International Building/initial proposal).

It's really crazy that with all the new residential going up in the Central Corridor, the one available site which is right on Forest Park still sits empty. Seems that would be the plum site in all of STL. Hopefully Koplar understands the historical opportunity the site holds, and eventually builds something worth the wait.

BTW, does Koplar also own the lot at Kingshighway and West Pine?

I wonder if this is a lot about Koplar sensing the opportunity but knowing that they needed to bring in some in some heavy hitters in Koman & Clayco who with the resources and abilities to carry through a significant project. In the end you are going to have some significant differences and opinion to work through. I would suspect that Koplar has simply not been able to do the market research and number crunching as extensively as Koman & Clayco would be capable to do.

The plus side is they brought in an architect for a signature project so I believe all parties are in for something of prominence and significance The downside, they need to resolve the differences soon whether to make the leap of faith to condos as multi unit residential/apartments is slowly being built up as well as the financing/capital being used.

Personnally, I would think that condos at Ballpark Village would be the best place for them to sell in the St. Louis market considering you have a whole market of Cardinal fans who might be interested in second place, corporate interest or even investors who are willing to buy & do the short term online rental deals for visiting fans. Think out of town Cardinal and or Cub fans who want to do a weekend series and rather go rent a condo next door to the stadium instead of hoteling it.

^ So basically, Koplar wants to build something exciting that we will never see in St. Louis. While Koman wants to build a typical boxy tower that we would be happy to get, but overall uninspired and conservative in design. Overall, I'm just concerned with the size of the project, need something big to fill out this lot. Unless of course they are looking at multiple towers.

Can some of these last few comments be moved to the "Surface lots at Pine, Lindell and Kingshighway" thread, so that the convo can continue there?

wabash wrote:I was referencing the blocking of a project 15+ stories in hopes of something taller. i.e. Park Central not liking a 16 story proposal because they'd prefer something 25+.

Interesting point, I hadn't thought about that. I can see them pushing for something taller/iconic there, but I suspect they'd still support tax abatement for something shorter/less iconic, in the mold of the Opus project at the corner of Euclid and Lindell. Just speculation, though.

^Not sure that's such a novel idea. Most of the City of St. Louis has been divvied up into .1 acre properties and sold off to individuals.

You need a mix of everything. St. Louis is full of one-, two-, or four- family buildings. But this is a key lot in the most cosmopolitan area of town. Landing a tall tower on it would be a good thing.

Presbyterian wrote:My limited (and secondhand... and from months ago) understanding is that Koplar wants to go big and iconic but Koman wants to go financially safe with a product they know will make money. One side controls the land, the other the $$$.

I believe this to be a very accurate summation.

I was just at the Art Hill Overlook today, imagining the future of that corner. IMO, anything under 30 stories is a lost opportunity.

I don't get wound up about towers. A fined-grained city of 2-5 stories works for me. But this is a premiere location in our premiere neighborhood. Something worthy should rise here. A landmark. It'd help frame the park.

https://stltoday.newspapers.com/clip/46 ... _hotel_at/

roger wyoming II wrote:Geoff W. is suggesting on his new twitter project @STL_BDF (St. Louis Business and Development Forecast) that a 40 story tower is in the works.

exciting!

That would be incredible. Exactly the right size for the site, IMO.