urbanSTL

framer wrote:I wonder if Koplar feels that the gauntlet has been thrown...now they've got to respond with something even bigger and better!

I hope. Let's get a competition going to get developers and architects to design building better than the last and taller all over


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framer wrote:I wonder if Koplar feels that the gauntlet has been thrown...now they've got to respond with something even bigger and better!

I think they feel frustrated. They actually came out an with a signature architect and a development group/partners to make it happen first.

Instead, I wonder if Koplar family really picked the right partners at the right time. Koman already got its own list of projects from what is going up a short distance away on Euclid, to Cupples X, and the fact that they bought into CORTEX. Also, if not mistaken, believe Clayco is part of the group that joined Koplar. Clayco is also fully engaged as Centene's development partner while at the same time going out of its way to go put up a 14 story apartment block in the Loop in short order. Who knows what Clayco comes up with next. Do either of these partners have as much to gain at the moment getting something built for Koplar?

Or... another way to look at it, did Koman and to lesser extent Clayco sign on with a property owner that is much more difficult then expected? Just scratching my head on how Opus, Koman, Bruce Mills/Whole Foods, etc Central West End project came together once the economy turned & BJC/Wash U announced big expansion/rebuild plans. Now you have the likelihood of a $130 million tower breaking ground next year that is literally next door to Koplar. In the meantime, Koplar's prime spot is quiet.

or I'm I missing something?? as at this point I can also see, Lawrence Group Foundry phase 2 residential tower & Cortex East breaking ground as well as a Koman CORTEX proposal floated before something happens at Kingshighway @ Lindell.

I think Koplar is waiting to see how well the market goes in the new neighboring building before they add their idea in to the mix.


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^ Wait to see what the market does and someone next door might already have units on the market and you only have to wait longer before bankers will lend on your project

I believe Koplar must have to secure a lot of outside capital/financing to make their project happen. A pure guess on part and pretty much the position that I believe Bruce Mills was in before he secured a Whole Foods commitment & broke ground on Euclid. But simply a guess on my part as I find the financial side just as interesting as the building side

Whereas my impression from the reporting is the guys next door have some money in the bank to speak already. More a question of what opportunities to pull the trigger on first... and very different from DeWitt/Cordish which I have no doubt that they have wealth to break ground on Monday morning but pretty much won't make something happen until they can find a way to get a premium and or remove the risk in order to maximize return

I would expect an announcement on this soon with a concept for the building but no construction on it until One Hundred goes up and is completed


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chaifetz10 wrote:I could see this as another litmus test of the residential market in the CWE. If One Hundred is constructed and is occupied quickly, then it's a better business case for more high end high rise residential.

Wouldn't be surprised to see something a little sooner. Citizen Park started before Orion was done. Euclid started before Citizen Park was done. One Hundred could, maybe, fingers crossed, start before Euclid is done (scheduled for summer 2017 completion).

If Orion, Citizen Park, and Euclid are all leased up near asking rents before One Hundred is done (projected for 2019), the Koplar/Koman group could still make a compelling case to lenders, even with the One Hundred inventory about to come online. It's kind of a best case scenario, but recently that seems to be how the CWE is rolling.

I'd like to see someone one-up the Flower Tower with something even taller.

I highly doubt this project is even on the planning table anymore. It probably is shoved in a drawer somewhere or completely dumped. Because 2 years since NextSTL reported on planning for the Tower is ridiculous, I highly doubt they are even working on the project and if they are, it probably is not as tall as One Hundred or the Chase Park Plaza. Because if they were planning it still, we would be hearing information on the project like we did for One-Hundred. It just seems that the project is stalled or got hung up somewhere along the way and Koman didn't want to deal with it anymore because it is either a risk or to big of a cost to afford. But who knows. I put The possibly of this project exceeding One Hundred in height at 10% and the possibility of it being announced within the next year at 40%

Yea i wouldn't be surprised if the 100 hundred announcement didn't just push this "tower" back another 18 months. We can just hope that 100 hundred leases up quickly and gives them confidence in the market to move forward with something significant. I would think condos would make sense.

Yup, they'll probably want to see how apartments prices are after one hundred opens. So years off before we see anything is my guess

That is absurd. They don't need to wait 2-3 (or more) years for 100 to open. They have the Chase, Orion, Citizen Park, 213 Meramec, OPO tower, the Everly, Encore, Cortona, the Euclid plus a dozen or more other new apartment buildings buildings will be opened or opening soon.

^100% correct.

There's a large chance 100 has nothing to do with the Koman project at all. 100 is solely an apartment tower. I would see the Koman property being a great fit for a new high end hotel topped by condos. There's only increasing hotel demand in the CWE. I could see ~30 floors of hotel topped by 20 floors of condos in this signature location. In the case of something like that, it would have virtually no sales overlap with 100.

^ something like that would be great and of course would in ways mirror the Chase across the street. A well-designed, modern re-interpretation of the Chase with mixed-uses would be awesome.

Rumors form a friend who works in the city (not and Aldermen) he has said that the Koman Tower will be announced before May and be about the same height as the Chase Park Plaza. Sadly, he didn't give me any idea on what it will look like or its cost. But, I wouldn't take this seriously especially from him who has been saying a whole bunch of stuff that never came true, but who knows, he could be right. I'm keeping my hopes up though!

newstl2020 wrote: ↑

Dec 16, 2016

^100% correct.

There's a large chance 100 has nothing to do with the Koman project at all. 100 is solely an apartment tower. I would see the Koman property being a great fit for a new high end hotel topped by condos. There's only increasing hotel demand in the CWE. I could see ~30 floors of hotel topped by 20 floors of condos in this signature location. In the case of something like that, it would have virtually no sales overlap with 100.

I think what you predicted/suggested makes a lot of sense for this tower. I'm hoping we will hear something around this time next year and get construction going in 2019 but who knows.

^I think "who knows" is the right assessment. There hasn't been a peep on this project in nearly 2-1/2 years. Pretty soon it'll be in the fabled Montgomery Tower territory (who also hired a high profile architect before disappearing into obscurity).

^ Agree, can certainly see a forthcoming proposal/renderings as Koplar brought in a few bigger players to make something happen. The question with a Clayton residential high rise tower about to open, One Hundred Tower about to break ground next door and BPV II finally announced as well Centene/Clayco full on assault mode did Koplar miss the opportunity or is their room for one or two more high residential towers?

One Hundred Tower, Koplar Tower, Green Streets phase II armory hotel tower, and a Lawrence Group Foundry phase II residential and finally for good measure CORTEX Aloft breaking ground & Koman/Cortex development would be a pretty good outcome. I think it will be a pretty good outcome if the other projects move forward even without a Koplar tower

I think this corner would be perfect for a mixed-use tower with hotel, office, and residential space. Whatever happens, this is a very expensive, desirable piece of land, which will only get more valuable, so whatever eventually gets built there will have to be big.

Does anyone have any insights into the actual occupancy rate in CWE? I know this is naive but... my friend lives in Parc Frontenac and has 4 empty units on his half of the building on his floor alone. They're empty, unlocked (great for storing bikes when I visit) Just curious if this is a CWE trend or not. Yes, I'm sure it'll pick up in August but still a bit surprising.

^ not the sexiest building. i wonder if that has anything to do with it. wasn't it recently purchased by the company that's building 100 N. Kingshighway? i thought i heard that they installed central HVAC. did they raise rents substantially?

urban_dilettante wrote: ↑

Jul 17, 2017

^ not the sexiest building. i wonder if that has anything to do with it. wasn't it recently purchased by the company that's building 100 N. Kingshighway? i thought i heard that they installed central HVAC. did they raise rents substantially?

Correct, Prac Frontenac and the Montclair are owned by MAC Properties, they're also the developer for One Hundred. No, not the sexiest building, the kitchens are possibly the smallest I've ever seen outside of a tiny house (I had to attach a photo, they're shockingly small). The A/C is still run off of PTACs in every unit I was in. That being said, they do have 24/7 lobby attendant, rooftop, gym, large units, and the building is very well maintained.

That is a small kitchen. Almost as small as my sister in law's condo in Saigon. And smaller than the previous two places she rented. (Though probably also cheaper.) That is, I suppose, the price of trendy. Hard to argue with the location.