What projects are commanding over $4 psf? And is that all of the units or just studios or penthouses?ldai_phs wrote:High end new construction has past $4 SF/Month with waitlists (deposit required)
There is / was also a lot of untapped demand in urban KC. The last couple of national waves of urban renaissance and the urban living trend pretty much skipped Kansas City until now. I also believe that a certain, intangible, part of national real estate development is in finding that "undiscovered" region, or "frontier", which becomes the next "hot" city or region, e.g. Nashville. It's difficult to determine how much of any job growth in such situations is cause or effect. KC has the potential to become one of those areas.
Two Light’s penthouses stretch from $3.85 SF/Month to over $4.11 SF/Month on the high end.urbanitas wrote:What projects are commanding over $4 psf? And is that all of the units or just studios or penthouses?ldai_phs wrote:High end new construction has past $4 SF/Month with waitlists (deposit required)
$4.11 SF/Month is for a 1 bed, 1 bath unit. https://www.apartments.com/two-light-l ... o/e27mxpp/
3 Light rents will be higher with a unit mix geared even more towards high end Condo/Penthouse.
OCW’s peak at around $3 SF/Month
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Apparently some in Two Light are commanding $4, but not all units...urbanitas wrote:What projects are commanding over $4 psf? And is that all of the units or just studios or penthouses?ldai_phs wrote:High end new construction has past $4 SF/Month with waitlists (deposit required)
http://kcrag.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=1 ... 44#p598522
DTKC added thousands of units last decade but they were mostly building conversions and low rise projects. The new construction of taller buildings started this decade as rents increased enough to justify it. At $3.50+ avg, should be easier to attract more towers w/out incentives if the market can attract more willing to pay that. Cordish seems to believe it can but they got incentives. A big test will be getting a tower from someone else w/out incentives, which doesn't seem likely for a while given Cordish has 2 more towers in pipeline. Four Light is planned to be a hotel/residential combo (35+ floors) and rumblings from insiders claim it may start while Three Light is under construction.urbanitas wrote:There is / was also a lot of untapped demand in urban KC. The last couple of national waves of urban renaissance and the urban living trend pretty much skipped Kansas City until now. I also believe that a certain, intangible, part of national real estate development is in finding that "undiscovered" region, or "frontier", which becomes the next "hot" city or region, e.g. Nashville. It's difficult to determine how much of any job growth in such situations is cause or effect. KC has the potential to become one of those areas.
BTW, on the Google data center in KC, they've signed for the property, one step closer to happening. But they may not make announcement until Spring.
1. Children's Mercy Research Tower - Hospital Hill/Crown Center:
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2. Reverb (1800 Walnut) - KC Crossroads:
Highrise apartment project by Copaken Brooks and Burns & McDonnell.
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View from Main Street.
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3. CityClub KC Crossroads Apartments:
Midrise Apartment Project by City Club
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4. Downtown YMCA - Lyric Opera Conversion:
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2. Reverb (1800 Walnut) - KC Crossroads:
Highrise apartment project by Copaken Brooks and Burns & McDonnell.
View from Main Street.
3. CityClub KC Crossroads Apartments:
Midrise Apartment Project by City Club
4. Downtown YMCA - Lyric Opera Conversion:
Icelandair has discontinued MCI and will not return for 2020 out of fleet shortage due to the Boeing MAX grounding. The B757 was simply too much capacity.
Personally, Icelandair was the wrong airline for the market. Most passengers were connecting to Europe and were largely comprised of bargain seeking tourists taking one-off vacations or curious travelers. Corporate executives in heath care, tech, engineering etc and well heeled travelers likely have accounts with the likes of Delta and United. That’s where the real profit is. KC is more business oriented than tourist.
That said, there is still a significant market to exploit with roughly 500 people crossing the pond daily with Paris, London and Frankfurt being the top EU destinations. KC’s best bet is to strike a deal with Delta to AMS/CDG, Condor to FRA or BA to LHR.
Personally, Icelandair was the wrong airline for the market. Most passengers were connecting to Europe and were largely comprised of bargain seeking tourists taking one-off vacations or curious travelers. Corporate executives in heath care, tech, engineering etc and well heeled travelers likely have accounts with the likes of Delta and United. That’s where the real profit is. KC is more business oriented than tourist.
That said, there is still a significant market to exploit with roughly 500 people crossing the pond daily with Paris, London and Frankfurt being the top EU destinations. KC’s best bet is to strike a deal with Delta to AMS/CDG, Condor to FRA or BA to LHR.
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It's pretty much in the exact same position STL is then. I don't see KC being a major priority for international flights, especially with a larger hub like Chicago just a short connecting flight away.
I hear this argument a lot and I’m not sure if I agree. If that’s the case, how do you think STL will fare trying to attract service since it’s close to ORD? Proximity to major hubs has rarely stopped airlines from adding flights. BNA, AUS, PDX, IND, RDU, PVD, CVG, CHS etc all have TATL. Most of these examples are roughly the same size or even smaller than KC and STL in terms of population, air traffic and economy.chaifetz10 wrote: ↑Oct 07, 2019It's pretty much in the exact same position STL is then. I don't see KC being a major priority for international flights, especially with a larger hub like Chicago just a short connecting flight away.
Don’t forget that MCI has a large catchment area spanning up to Des Moines, Omaha and Wichita.
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Short answer: I don't think STL will fare well at all.
Omaha, Wichita, and Des Moines all have connections with Chicago (and Minneapolis for that matter) already, so people can already connect to more international flights from those airports with short connecting flights. People aren't going to drive to KC from these locations for an international flight, and if they're going to fly in, they're already able to utilize an existing major hub in the Midwest.
Omaha, Wichita, and Des Moines all have connections with Chicago (and Minneapolis for that matter) already, so people can already connect to more international flights from those airports with short connecting flights. People aren't going to drive to KC from these locations for an international flight, and if they're going to fly in, they're already able to utilize an existing major hub in the Midwest.
Getting a flight for MCI or STL is going to come down to incentives. It is about that simple. The airports that have added service lately all paid millions for flights, many with state help that Missouri doesn’t seem to offer. If either of the airports get the money together they will get one. Keeping it after the money runs out is another thing.
^ I was going to say something similar. All of these smaller (than STL or KC) cities that have landed TATL service lose that service as soon as the subsidy runs out.
The St. Louis County Port Authority had set $5 million or so aside for landing these types of flights, but pulled the money before the airlines could even respond because they didn't think it was in the region's best interest to spend millions of dollars only to lose the flights as soon as the subsidies ran out. Also worth mentioning that those millions were set aside before Stenger and Sweeney plead guilty to corruption and the new leadership wants to move the Port Authority in a different direction now that it's free from Stenger's grip. That money will now be spent as it should be, as grants to nonprofits and community development corporations.
Missouri won't offer anything up in terms of TATL incentives, because it would have to do it for both cities. It would have to come from local governments or the business community.
If these airlines could make TATL service work in St. Louis and KC, they would have already. If it doesn't make any financial sense for the airlines to do it, it certainly doesn't make sense for the government to subsidize it.
The St. Louis County Port Authority had set $5 million or so aside for landing these types of flights, but pulled the money before the airlines could even respond because they didn't think it was in the region's best interest to spend millions of dollars only to lose the flights as soon as the subsidies ran out. Also worth mentioning that those millions were set aside before Stenger and Sweeney plead guilty to corruption and the new leadership wants to move the Port Authority in a different direction now that it's free from Stenger's grip. That money will now be spent as it should be, as grants to nonprofits and community development corporations.
Missouri won't offer anything up in terms of TATL incentives, because it would have to do it for both cities. It would have to come from local governments or the business community.
If these airlines could make TATL service work in St. Louis and KC, they would have already. If it doesn't make any financial sense for the airlines to do it, it certainly doesn't make sense for the government to subsidize it.
Can someone provide evidence that KC catchment area is larger than STL. I don't see how it is possible, the consulting report I've seen say STL is larger.
Catchment Areas are usually defined as a 2 hour drive, of which Wichita, Des Moines, and Omaha are not to Kansas City.
Ironically though, St. Louis is a top 10 destination to all three of those airports thanks to Southwest's funneling through St. Louis.
Wichita to StL = #5 most popular at ICT
Omaha to StL = #9 most popular at OMA
Des Moines to StL = #8 most popular at DSM
Catchment Areas are usually defined as a 2 hour drive, of which Wichita, Des Moines, and Omaha are not to Kansas City.
Ironically though, St. Louis is a top 10 destination to all three of those airports thanks to Southwest's funneling through St. Louis.
Wichita to StL = #5 most popular at ICT
Omaha to StL = #9 most popular at OMA
Des Moines to StL = #8 most popular at DSM
When you drop the arbitrary 2 hour limit and look at actual traffic, KC has a much larger catchment area. Source: reports on the actual users of the airport.addxb2 wrote:
Catchment Areas are usually defined as a 2 hour drive, of which Wichita, Des Moines, and Omaha are not to Kansas City.
People love to throw around the word catchment area when I think it means little.
Passengers at the airport are passengers at the airport no matter where they come from. You have hard stats that show passenger counts. That is what matters. I can throw out MSA/population/catchment area numbers all day but those numbers don't mean as much as who is getting on planes.
Trying to figure out how many pasengers would or wouldn't drive somewhere based on a hypothetical flight is useless. Lots of people drive from STL to Chicago and then take flights from there to Europe/Asia. How many, who knows? Just like who knows how many more people would drive to KC or STL if they added a flights.
Passengers at the airport are passengers at the airport no matter where they come from. You have hard stats that show passenger counts. That is what matters. I can throw out MSA/population/catchment area numbers all day but those numbers don't mean as much as who is getting on planes.
Trying to figure out how many pasengers would or wouldn't drive somewhere based on a hypothetical flight is useless. Lots of people drive from STL to Chicago and then take flights from there to Europe/Asia. How many, who knows? Just like who knows how many more people would drive to KC or STL if they added a flights.
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I can't find the KC Biz Journal article but about a year ago it reported KCI stats claiming about 6% of passenger traffic is tied to Omaha/Des Moines/Wichita O&D. Can't remember exact figure and it may have included Topeka/Columbia. I do recall thinking it was not high but not as low as you might think given they have major airport connections.ldai_phs wrote: ↑Oct 07, 2019When you drop the arbitrary 2 hour limit and look at actual traffic, KC has a much larger catchment area. Source: reports on the actual users of the airport.addxb2 wrote:
Catchment Areas are usually defined as a 2 hour drive, of which Wichita, Des Moines, and Omaha are not to Kansas City.
Either way, likely not a factor in KC's ability to support transatlantic flights, which is hard for any mid-market sized airport to do that isn't a hub.
Project Decoy Overview
This Headquarters project for a financial services firm will immediately bring 1000 new jobs to the state of Missouri and the City of Kansas City, Mo. The average wage for the positions is over $110,000 and the company would like to be a part of a build to suit newly constructed building in the downtown area of Kansas City. This project will help recreate the skyline in Kansas City by adding a quality new construction high rise and continue to increase the population of individuals working everyday in downtown Kansas City. Aside from the initial jobs being located the company is projecting an additional 120 new jobs with the same average wages over a 6-year period.
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This Headquarters project for a financial services firm will immediately bring 1000 new jobs to the state of Missouri and the City of Kansas City, Mo. The average wage for the positions is over $110,000 and the company would like to be a part of a build to suit newly constructed building in the downtown area of Kansas City. This project will help recreate the skyline in Kansas City by adding a quality new construction high rise and continue to increase the population of individuals working everyday in downtown Kansas City. Aside from the initial jobs being located the company is projecting an additional 120 new jobs with the same average wages over a 6-year period.
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Most likely to a $200 million project.sc4mayor wrote:^ Sounds like Waddell and Reed is relocating from Johnson County.
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^ I'm a little more interested in whether or not the much ballyhooed "Border War Truce" from August applies here...should be interesting to see if our elected leaders can finally walk the walk for a chance. I'd hate to see the city throw public money at a company that is only 8 miles away from downtown currently.
Edit: Whoops...spoke too soon I guess, lets just hope it's not a lot:
Edit: Whoops...spoke too soon I guess, lets just hope it's not a lot:
https://www.kansascity.com/news/politic ... rylink=cpyOverland Park’s Waddell & Reed Financial, which just announced it would lay off dozens of local workers, has qualified for incentives from Missouri for an upcoming move. Likewise, Hostess Brands, the maker of Twinkies, has identified state incentives as a major reason for its move from Kansas City to Lenexa.
The truce doesn’t apply to firms already in negotiations to leave.sc4mayor wrote:^ I'm a little more interested in whether or not the much ballyhooed "Border War Truce" from August applies here...should be interesting to see if our elected leaders can finally walk the walk for a chance. I'd hate to see the city throw public money at a company that is only 8 miles away from downtown currently.
Yep, just discovered that and made the appropriate edit lol.ldai_phs wrote: ↑Oct 08, 2019The truce doesn’t apply to firms already in negotiations to leave.sc4mayor wrote:^ I'm a little more interested in whether or not the much ballyhooed "Border War Truce" from August applies here...should be interesting to see if our elected leaders can finally walk the walk for a chance. I'd hate to see the city throw public money at a company that is only 8 miles away from downtown currently.
What a shame, though not at all surprising.
^ I saw that awhile ago as well, it was closer to 255. Despite that, they still continue to add hundreds of jobs at their new corporate campus in the South KC suburbs. I think these cuts were related to a specific division.
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Of the USDA employees reassigned to Kansas City, 9% have moved there, 13% temporarily remain in Washington, and 78% have quit.
If the goal was to kill the department, consider it a bloodbath.
If the goal was to kill the department, consider it a bloodbath.